Tesla rear-ends a stationary Fire Engine with its lights flashing at 65mph

[paulca]

Still teslas fault.  "Temporarily stationary object" in 4 dimensions.

Nope.  Drivers fault.  It is not an antonymous car.  It's an autopilot which requires driver supervision.

Also, regarding stationary objects in the air there is exactly one, a very large on we call the Earth.  A plane autopilot will happily and diligently fly you into that object if you ask it to.  If it doesn't disconnect and wash it's hands of it.  Point in hand, the recent suspected suicide CFIT (Controlled flight into terrain) in Europe by a 737 pilot was commanded on the autopilot descent hold mode.

Does the Tesla system actually report support for collision avoidance with stationary objects in the middle of the road?

[donotdespisethesnake]

The absolute minimum I expect from driver assist technology is collision avoidance, especially for stationary objects in the direction of travel. Whatever you call it, Tesla's Autopilot doesn't meet minimum requirement.

An assist feature which turns off when the driver is inattentive is monumentally useless. If I am incapacitated due to illness or some other reason, I want the car to take over and safely stop, not run into the back of the car in front!

Sorry, back to the drawing boards guys 

[paulca]

An assist feature which turns off when the driver is inattentive is monumentally useless. If I am incapacitated due to illness or some other reason, I want the car to take over and safely stop, not run into the back of the car in front!

Railways have this feature called DAWS and a bunch of other things.  Basically if the driver has not moved a control in a while it sounds a buzzer or bell.  The driver has about 3 seconds to respond to that buzzer by pressing a reset button or the train engages emergency brakes and locks the controls until it comes to a complete stop.

It sounds similar buzzers for passing yellow signals or approaching red ones.

A full emergency stop in the middle of a motorway might be a bit extreme and create other hazards, but maybe it should reduce speed gradually and maybe even attempt to make it to the hard shoulder.

[orion242]

basically if the driver has not moved a control in a while it sounds a buzzer or bell.  The driver has about 3 seconds to respond to that buzzer by pressing a reset button or the train engages emergency brakes and locks the controls until it comes to a complete stop.

That's what these "assist" systems should be required to have to keep the driver attentive.  Of course by the time you do that, who's buying?

[metrologist]

There was a proposal that Tesla may have been following another vehicle that changed lanes at the last minute to avoid the truck, and Tesla had less time to react and stop in time.

[james_s]

Which is precisely the sort of thing a human driver would easily be able to see and avoid, if they're paying attention. Regardless of what you tell them, people are going to assume these various driver assist features are infallible and rely on them. We are going to see a lot more incidents like this occurring.

[Electro Detective]

"Autopilot is intended for use only with a fully attentive driver," Tesla told The Register in a statement today.

Tesla would also recommend that drivers stay sober, something one owner seemingly forgot over the weekend.
On Saturday evening, a bloke was arrested after he passed out at the wheel on San Francisco's Bay Bridge, which runs between the city and Oakland, and his motor had come to a stop.
The cops found the guy with twice the legal limit of alcohol in his body.

Cashed up dumbass w@nkers still in playground mode 
most likely flogging ice or pimping HOs for a buck,
or rich parents keeping mentally ill Junior 'happy' lest he pop a tantrum at one of their galah parties in front of influential friends   

[CatalinaWOW]

Statistics on autonomous vehicles indicate they are already roughly as good as human drivers.  This is not an indication of how good the autonomous vehicles are.

Numerous drivers, including more than one of my acquaintance, have achieved high speed collisions with the rear of a truck.  The human driving machine is unlikely to improve rapidly.  If we want safer roads we must push for better "autopilots".

[orion242]

Statistics on autonomous vehicles indicate they are already roughly as good as human drivers.

And that based on how many AV driven miles and whats the total non-AV driven miles in the same time period?  Cherry picked stats based on the early adopters, not the general public and all the stupidity that will come with them.

[james_s]

What it comes down to is that used as directed, these "autonomous" features are virtually useless. If you have to be fully attentive with your hands on the wheel then why not just drive the car yourself? We have a big problem with people trying to drive cars while focusing on anything but the driving, and trying to solve that with technology is not the right approach IMO. People need to be heavily pressured to PAY ATTENTION rather than conditioned to further rely on band aids to do the attention paying for them. Driving a car is a privilege, and one that should not be taken lightly. There are alternatives for those who are incapable of handling the responsibility of piloting a big heavy machine at high speeds.

[Nusa]

I seem to remember this same type of discussion when cruise control started to become a popular factory and after-market add-on for 1970's cars. It's standard equipment these days, of course. It's all about making sure it's used correctly.

[james_s]

Cruise control is a lot different than autonomous control though. It allows you to relax your feet and pay attention to the road instead of the speedometer. It's not a substitute for paying attention.

That said, I hardly ever use mine. It works well on wide open highways but this area is so crowded that it's rarely useful.

[Electro Detective]

Cruise Control is a MUST HAVE where I am 

otherwise Revenue Raisers Inc. currently trading as 'The P0lice' here, will have your pockets cleaned out in no time for exceeding speed limits by 3 kilometers in confusing 40 - 60 - 50 -80 -100 -60 ever-changing zones
filled with fixed, hidden and mobile 'safety' sCAMERAS

Instead of patrolling and catching the drunks, donut loving hoonTards and unlicensed dangerous turds, they target Jill and Joe Citizen on their way to and from work or picking up the kids/shopping instead,
doing 53 or 54 in a 50 - 60- 50 zone (formerly 60kph everywhere)
on clear wide semi-deserted roads with great visibility,
roads originally designed for 60, 70 and 80 kph, and never an accident nor a remote chance for one

...even if F1s dragged there with no one at the wheel   

[CatalinaWOW]

Statistics on autonomous vehicles indicate they are already roughly as good as human drivers.

And that based on how many AV driven miles and whats the total non-AV driven miles in the same time period?  Cherry picked stats based on the early adopters, not the general public and all the stupidity that will come with them.

The stats are very questionable now.  It's why I said roughly.  But they are probably within one order of magnitude, with the sign uncertain.  It remains that the "auto" side of the equation will improve, while there is little reason to think people will.  Within a decade I think you will start seeing statistics that suggest people should never be allowed to drive.  It will probably be two or three decades before that actually starts to happen.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Also there is a zone speed limit thing in China, which is a total bitch. They set a camera on each entrance, and a camera on each exit. They capture every car passing them, and log the license plate. They then calculate a minimum time for each entrance-exit combination based on distance and speed limit. If you pass the passage before the minimum time, you get a ticket. There's no way to dodge speed radar or anything because the cameras are 100% triggered.

We have that shit in Madrid too.

[Cyberdragon]

Does the Tesla system actually report support for collision avoidance with stationary objects in the middle of the road?

YES

Active safety technologies, including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking

[james_s]

Initially I was not opposed to speed/red light cameras because speeding and red light running really is a problem. Unfortunately in practice they are all very clearly set up not to improve safety but to maximize revenue. The thresholds are too tight and there is no wiggle room when it comes to getting tickets. What really firmed up my opinion is when a citizen initiative attempted to shut down the red light camera system in a city near me the first comment from the city was "we need the revenue!" Ok, at that point they are not serving their intended purpose and they need to go.

[Marco]

I think the word "Autopilot" is generally confused by the idiot masses.

They understand it exactly as how marketing intends it.

[Nusa]

Cruise Control is a MUST HAVE where I am 

Maybe, but whenever I drive with cruise on a straight high way, I want to sleep. A lot of pro drivers work overtime prefer to drive manual transmission because that way there's no way they can fall asleep behind the wheel.

Manual cars/trucks also have cruise controls, unless they're antiques. The main difference is that using the clutch pedal also turns them off and of course they can't change gears. Gear changes are infrequent at highway speeds, so there's really no difference from an automatic most of the time.

If you really want to make sure you won't be tempted to use it, you can pull the fuse for the cruise control. Your right foot may get tired after a while. There's always the awkward cross-over technique where you use your left foot to get some relief.

[Cyberdragon]

If you guys are worried about cameras, you could always use some sort of wide beam infrared laser pointer (if it's bright enough to get through the window).

[MT]

It is not an antonymous car.  It's an autopilot which requires driver supervision.

Thats "why" its Teslas fault. See your argument from a Tesla marketing point and you see why.

Also, regarding stationary objects in the air there is exactly one, a very large on we call the Earth.

Not as long you fly above it. However firetrucks are known not to fly.

A plane autopilot will happily and diligently fly you into that object if you ask it to.

Planes/autopilot usually have a front radar (as you mentioned earlier, terrain alarm) giving the pilot a suggestion a solid object is in your flight path and that you do something about it. But its the argument firetruck + aeroplane = crash with solid stationary object, whats wrong.
Can it possibly have anything to do with some software dudes again?

Does the Tesla system actually report support for collision avoidance with stationary objects in the middle of the road?

Yes but why not ask Tesla driver who dont understand the implication of the meaning of Tesla autopilot! But its not car autopilot system unless it does. Or more properly it should be labeled "driver assist" rather this autopilot BS.

Im looking forward to fully autonomous cars driving around!

[MT]

I seem to remember this same type of discussion when cruise control started to become a popular factory and after-market add-on for 1970's cars. It's standard equipment these days, of course.

In US perhaps but not in Europe.

[james_s]

Manual cars/trucks also have cruise controls, unless they're antiques. The main difference is that using the clutch pedal also turns them off and of course they can't change gears. Gear changes are infrequent at highway speeds, so there's really no difference from an automatic most of the time.

If you really want to make sure you won't be tempted to use it, you can pull the fuse for the cruise control. Your right foot may get tired after a while. There's always the awkward cross-over technique where you use your left foot to get some relief.

My nearly 30 year old daily driver car has a manual gearbox and cruise control, it works exactly like having a cruise control with an automatic. There's a combination vacuum valve/electrical switch on the clutch pedal in series with an identical unit on the brake pedal that both disengages the vacuum solenoid on the throttle and signals to the controller that the clutch has been pressed. When you depress either pedal the cruise control automatically disengages, so if you need to downshift on a steep grade for example you simply shift normally and then hit Resume. As was mentioned above though, shifting is rarely needed in the situations in which one would be using the cruise control, namely long trips on wide open highways.

The thing that gets me is almost invariably when I engage cruise, some idiot passes me and then slows down. I don't understand why they don't just stay behind me if they don't want to go faster than I was going. That is one advantage those fancy newer auto adjusting cruise controls have.

[james_s]

Also, regarding stationary objects in the air there is exactly one, a very large on we call the Earth.  A plane autopilot will happily and diligently fly you into that object if you ask it to.  If it doesn't disconnect and wash it's hands of it.  Point in hand, the recent suspected suicide CFIT (Controlled flight into terrain) in Europe by a 737 pilot was commanded on the autopilot descent hold mode.

An even bigger difference is that autopilots in aircraft are operated by highly trained professionals in most cases, not distracted soccer moms or teenagers absorbed in their mobile phones.

[MT]

Tesla has introduced an update that brings its cars to a halt if they detect a driver's hands are not on the wheel.

Bummer - I would not want a car that cannot be steered by my knees.  Sometimes I just need both hands for something else.

Yes, like watching a porno on the cars entertainment system and masturbating with right hand while opening a can of cola with left hand! I do the same here but only on outback roads!