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| Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW |
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| Dr. Frank:
That's a very incompetent article. The traditional Carmakers usually never design electronics by themselves (any more), they define the architecture in the car, and order the electronics from big suppliers, like Denso, Bosch, Valeo, Continental, and so on. Their processing units (µP) in the different modules are of course automotive specific designs to fulfill AEC Q100, for example, and are tailored to the required features, performance and price. Very rarely commercial off-the-shelf processors are used. There's a transformation already going on in the Automotive Industry, one part being to merge electronics into Silver Boxes. So why should one assume, that the traditional suppliers won't be able also to design such electronics, or not already offering that? It depends only on what the OEMs want to have. Merging too many functions into one box only is a bad idea, like Infotainment and Autonomous Driving, because you have too many tasks in parallel, which will endanger the safety functions, and such a central system for everything wiould get too complex, SW and HW wise. And also TESLA did not reach AD level 5, as these many deadly accidents of TESLA cars prove.. so why this worshiping of this PCB, but ignoring the lack of sufficient AI power? Frank |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: ataradov on February 18, 2020, 06:06:36 pm ---comma.ai uses a cell phone. It does not consume that much that you would notice. So I'm not sure what it is thinking hard about. --- End quote --- Comma.ai is not a redundant setup. It uses a single camera, and relies on the phone's software not crashing and the non-ECC RAM functioning correctly in all circumstances. This is fine while you have a human in a loop but can never achieve full self driving (with a distracted or completely absent human) because it could not handle a software/hardware crash or non-ECC memory with a bit flip, etc. |
| ataradov:
--- Quote from: tom66 on February 19, 2020, 08:15:57 am ---Comma.ai is not a redundant setup. --- End quote --- Yes, sure. But it shows just how much is possible using a single processor and a simple camera. Putting 5 of those processors in a car is cheaper and probably better than designing a crazy AI ASIC. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: Dr. Frank on February 19, 2020, 08:03:01 am ---Merging too many functions into one box only is a bad idea, like Infotainment and Autonomous Driving, because you have too many tasks in parallel, which will endanger the safety functions, and such a central system for everything wiould get too complex, SW and HW wise. --- End quote --- Modern SoCs support virtualisation. Look at NXP's iMX8 for example which also targets automotive markets. Using virtualisation it can -for example- drive both the instrument cluster and infotainment system as if it is two entirely seperate systems. --- Quote from: ataradov on February 19, 2020, 08:19:50 am --- --- Quote from: tom66 on February 19, 2020, 08:15:57 am ---Comma.ai is not a redundant setup. --- End quote --- Yes, sure. But it shows just how much is possible using a single processor and a simple camera. Putting 5 of those processors in a car is cheaper and probably better than designing a crazy AI ASIC. --- End quote --- I have a feeling that getting the few % extra right for a self driving vehicle (especially poor visibility conditions) needs an exponential amount of extra processing power. I don't think that a simple setup using a smartphone is very representative. |
| Jeroen3:
--- Quote from: Dr. Frank on February 19, 2020, 08:03:01 am ---The traditional Carmakers usually never design electronics by themselves (any more), they define the architecture in the car, and order the electronics from big suppliers, like Denso, Bosch, Valeo, Continental, and so on. --- End quote --- Which is exactly their weak point. Too many layers. You can't easily reuse talent or knowledge because you don't own it. EaaS (engineering as a service) is a lifetime subscription, not building much value over time. --- Quote from: Dr. Frank on February 19, 2020, 08:03:01 am ---Merging too many functions into one box only is a bad idea, like Infotainment and Autonomous Driving, because you have too many tasks in parallel, which will endanger the safety functions, and such a central system for everything wiould get too complex, SW and HW wise. --- End quote --- Based on the eMMC bug their infotainment is some other system or at least processor or card. It may be sandwiched against this. That I do not know. |
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