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| SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: Marco on February 19, 2020, 06:02:22 pm ---If you let the auto drive without human intervention for 99.9% of the time, the human won't be paying attention for the 0.1% ... it's as simple as that. --- End quote --- Yep. The only way fully automated vehicles, without any human driver, will become a full replacement and even achieve better safety figures overall than human-driven vehicles (which is what they promise us), IMO, is if ALL the infrastructures become exactly adapted to them and there is no human-driven vehicle (or pedestrian, or ...) on the roads anymore. Not a single one. (I think it's been said already in some above posts.) Even though bugs are always possible (and even relatively common), machines do operate much better with other machines than with humans or anything unpredictable when it comes to safety. Once we get there, most of the "AI" that we're currently working on for this will become pointless. If the only vehicles in circulation are all interconnected and all with compatible routing characteristics, avoidance will be a much simpler task. And I kind of think at this point that this is exactly where people/companies working on and advocating autonomous vehicles are leading us to. A world, in fact, where only machines will be allowed, in the end. We will be just passengers, until we are not even needed anymore (that last part is a bit sci-fi, but the fictitious character is debatable.) The sophisticated obstacle avoidance AI stuff (and dealing with uncertainty in general) is entertaining a lot of people these days, but I'm not sure this has any future as is. |
| james_s:
I've been saying this for a long time. The concept of a self driving car that requires occasional human intervention is fundamentally flawed because as soon as you take away the requirement to focus the brain finds other things to focus on. Heck if I were king I'd ban automatic transmissions, can't stand them. I think if everyone had to actually drive the car we'd have a lot more attentive and engaged drivers. Additionally it would virtually eliminate all these "driver mistook the gas for the brake and plowed into a building" accidents. With a proper manual gearbox if you mash any two pedals the car *will* eventually stop and it's virtually impossible to unintentionally accelerate from a stop. We've already had vehicles for decades that you don't have to drive yourself, they're called buses and taxis. If I can't even drive it then I see little appeal in owning a private car. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: james_s on February 20, 2020, 03:12:14 am ---I've been saying this for a long time. The concept of a self driving car that requires occasional human intervention is fundamentally flawed because as soon as you take away the requirement to focus the brain finds other things to focus on. --- End quote --- Its not just a matter of attention. If people hardly ever drive their driving skills will degenerate (or for young drivers never develop). If you really automate driving (rather than just having the current driver assistance systems) you need to automate it entirely, because you won't be able to rely on a competent driver being present. |
| james_s:
Yes that too. What we need is *less* automation and more involvement, not more. All these driver assistance technologies are crutches that enable people to do things other than drive while they are driving a car. This creates positive feedback and people become worse, less attentive and less practiced drivers. Driving is a privilege and it's a task that demands 100% focus of the person doing it. If a person doesn't want to drive or can't pay attention they should ride the bus, it's a far more environmentally friendly mode of transit than a private car anyway. At least this assistance nonsense hasn't spread to motorcycles and bicycles yet although the roads are ever more treacherous for those of us who choose those vehicles. |
| thinkfat:
--- Quote from: james_s on February 20, 2020, 03:25:11 am ---Yes that too. What we need is *less* automation and more involvement, not more. All these driver assistance technologies are crutches that enable people to do things other than drive while they are driving a car. This creates positive feedback and people become worse, less attentive and less practiced drivers. Driving is a privilege and it's a task that demands 100% focus of the person doing it. If a person doesn't want to drive or can't pay attention they should ride the bus, it's a far more environmentally friendly mode of transit than a private car anyway. At least this assistance nonsense hasn't spread to motorcycles and bicycles yet although the roads are ever more treacherous for those of us who choose those vehicles. --- End quote --- That is our view, as drivers who have come accustomed to owning a car and mastering it. But the landscape is changing. For many young people owning a car is no longer a desirable goal, especially in the larger cities it's more of a burden than an advantage. Together with more and more people striving to live in cities this creates a trend automobile companies are reacting to. Also, there are countries where driving a car is a most boring activity and people engage in all kinds of distractions because there's just nothing else to do. If assistance technologies are keeping them and others safe I'm all for it. Myself as father of two small kids, I really appreciate automatic cruise control keeping a safe distance from the vehicle in front while the kids in the back are having a shouting match or creating whatever form of distraction they fancy this second. PS: I hear automatic gearboxes are the new thing with motorcycles now. |
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