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| Tesla's Autopilot Scam - by BS Exposed |
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| BrianHG:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 17, 2023, 11:55:33 am --- --- Quote from: BrianHG on December 17, 2023, 02:33:06 am ---Old news. I claimed that it was impossible on this tech forum years ago in a Musk thread and that others will eventually beat him to it within the next 15 years (now around 12 left) and I was booed and disciplined about Musk's greatness and fantastic 2 super neuro chips were overkill and impossible to fail... --- End quote --- Yeah... it's CLEARLY impossible... https://youtu.be/watch?v=nAxHWS5i_W0 --- End quote --- :palm: Yup, after seeing that, another 10 years away. Don't get me wrong, improvements are being made, but place that car in downtown New York, with hundreds of pedestrians at each corner, plus cyclists and motorbikes swerving, squeezing between cars, dogs running across the road... with all that steering hesitation and braking at the slightest question... Streets lined with double parked cabs & buses making aggressive moves into lanes, current FSD is nowhere near ready nor does it yet have more than the initial image & environment recognition. It's missing the understanding and intent recognition of all the other actors it sees on the road. But that level of recognition will come and what you showed me in that video will be looked upon like us being fools to trust such simplistic dangerous garbage in a decade when we will see the first authentic FSD cars which will come with no steering wheel or gas/accelerator pedals installed. |
| CatalinaWOW:
Just got around to actually watching the video and find it as far from the truth as Musk is, but in opposite direction. I don't own a Tesla, but do have a few acquaintances who do, and my son has traveled in one for many hours. 1. The constant errors and jerkiness shown in the video clips have not been observed by them. This doesn't mean that they don't happen, but it does mean that the frequency of occurrence is much lower than implied in the video. 2. The video reports with horror the reports of people asleep at the wheel and video of someone climbing into the back seat. I agree that this is stupid, and not warranted by the current performance, but again the fact that this is happening fairly often indicates that the incidence of crashes is fairly low, not what this video claims 100% chance of a crash in a short time. 3. Claims of scamming and widespread customer dissatisfaction seem overblown also. Those I know who have the FSD are completely happy with it. Ignorance may be bliss, but they are generally well educated and informed people (something that has a fair amount of correlation with being able to afford a Tesla). |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: BrianHG on December 17, 2023, 10:55:09 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on December 17, 2023, 11:55:33 am --- --- Quote from: BrianHG on December 17, 2023, 02:33:06 am ---Old news. I claimed that it was impossible on this tech forum years ago in a Musk thread and that others will eventually beat him to it within the next 15 years (now around 12 left) and I was booed and disciplined about Musk's greatness and fantastic 2 super neuro chips were overkill and impossible to fail... --- End quote --- Yeah... it's CLEARLY impossible... https://youtu.be/watch?v=nAxHWS5i_W0 --- End quote --- :palm: Yup, after seeing that, another 10 years away. Don't get me wrong, improvements are being made, but place that car in downtown New York, with hundreds of pedestrians at each corner, plus cyclists and motorbikes swerving, squeezing between cars, dogs running across the road... with all that steering hesitation and braking at the slightest question... Streets lined with double parked cabs & buses making aggressive moves into lanes, current FSD is nowhere near ready nor does it yet have more than the initial image & environment recognition. It's missing the understanding and intent recognition of all the other actors it sees on the road. But that level of recognition will come and what you showed me in that video will be looked upon like us being fools to trust such simplistic dangerous garbage in a decade when we will see the first authentic FSD cars which will come with no steering wheel or gas/accelerator pedals installed. --- End quote --- Getting rid of the steering wheel means the car needs to be able to do all the little manoeuvres needed to put the car exactly where you want it when you park. I don't think they've even begun to address that kind of thing. "Oh, its really sunny. Lets leave it in the shade of that tree." I don't think is a part of the current design. A lot of the effective flow at busy junctions only works when you smile at another driver and beckon them to go. If a self-driving car waits for a gap to pull into if could be waiting through the entire rush hour period at many junctions. :) |
| MT:
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 17, 2023, 04:46:28 am ---I find myself in the middle. I think there is a lot to like about electric cars. They aren't the answer to everything, but they do have a real place in the market. Same with self driving in cars. The Tesla product does an amazing job. It can't deliver enough 9s to satisfy most peoples standards for self driving capability, but it is pretty damn impressive. Just step back for a moment and think about it. The evidence is pretty clear that it will deliver a 99.9% chance of completing a trip safely. I don't really know what the real number is but suspect that it has a couple more nines in it. The general standard in risk management circles is that it needs six nines for deployment of a truly necessary function. Don't know if the legal profession has a real definition. And definitely self driving is optional so more than six nines would be required if that was the only criteria. But this is an area where the current technology (human beings) doesn't deliver that level of performance. In a purely rational world the self driving cars would only have to perform as well or better than humans, but in several threads on this forum and elsewhere it is clear that that won't be allowed here. Bottom line, Tesla isn't good enough for prime time now, and definitely oversold their capability. Whether that is lying or simply not thinking through how good it needs to be is unknown to me. But I see no evidence that Tesla won't get there (maybe by adding sensors, maybe by better software, maybe by better limits on where it can be applied or something else), and no evidence of who will get there first. And really no reason to toss them completely to the curb. Overselling is not unique to Tesla in this area. Other companies have had just as much hubris, but without the financial resources or market position to dig themselves as deep a hole. --- End quote --- Overselling is by law called for what it is, a scam, i.e scam'ed into paying for something that is not 100% there. Andrej Karpathy, who formerly was head of AI for Tesla’s Autopilot and FSD products, outlined their reasoning behind removing both the radar and ultrasonics from Tesla cars, as well as never using LIDAR or maps. While Elon Musk is best known for making statements on this, Karpathy was his go-to guy on backing up that reasoning. Karpathy raised eyebrows, however, when earlier this year he took a sabbatical from the job and eventually announced he would leave it. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2022/10/31/former-head-of-tesla-ai-explains-why-theyve-removed-sensors-others-differ/ |
| wraper:
--- Quote from: MT on December 18, 2023, 03:23:17 pm ---Andrej Karpathy, who formerly was head of AI for Tesla’s Autopilot and FSD products, outlined their reasoning behind removing both the radar and ultrasonics from Tesla cars, as well as never using LIDAR or maps. While Elon Musk is best known for making statements on this, Karpathy was his go-to guy on backing up that reasoning. Karpathy raised eyebrows, however, when earlier this year he took a sabbatical from the job and eventually announced he would leave it. --- End quote --- And what are you implying here? Here is what Andrej said 1:44:28 - Leaving Tesla. Also he said he may return to Tesla in future. --- Quote ---“I think over time during those five years; I’ve kind of gotten myself into a little bit of a managerial position. Most of my days were, you know, meetings and growing the organization and making decisions about sort of high-level strategic decisions about the team and what it should be working on and so on.” “And it’s kind of like a corporate executive role, and I can do it. I think I’m okay at it, but it’s not like fundamentally what I enjoy, and so I think when I joined, there was no computer vision team because Tesla was just going from the transition of using Mobileye, a third-party vendor, for all of its computer vision to having to build its computer vision system. So when I showed up, there were two people training deep neural networks.” --- End quote --- |
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