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The 8-Bit Guys house in Texas
Zero999:
--- Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on February 23, 2021, 10:08:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:10 pm ---Interesting. What did you do in Cambridge?
--- End quote ---
Drove mindlessly up and down the A10 to Ware until I found an escape route to the sun :)
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:10 pm ---That's one of the oldest myths in the book or meteorology. The UK gets very little heat from the Gulf Stream. The reason why Western Europe is colder, than corresponding parallels on the eastern side of North America, is because it's downwind of a large expanse of ocean. Western North America has similar temperatures to equivalent latitudes in Western Europe, because of the westerlies blowing over the warm Pacific. The east coasts of large landmasses are uniquely cold. The nearby sea limits summer warmth and in winter, the wind has blown over a the freezing continent, although it's a little less cold then, than further inland.
--- End quote ---
I have to disagree. Cambridge, for example, is the same latitude as Labrador. Much of the rain in NW Europe is exactly because of the moist air carried by the gulf stream eventually cooling enough to dump the water. Watch the path tropical waves off the west coast of Africa typically take - they head towards the east US and then travel up the coast on the gulf stream only to dump on Europe. The reasons that make NW Europe warmer than the American Atlantic coastal regions at the same latitude are the same as why the Pacific waters are much cooler than the Atlantic equivalents - large clockwise currents in the northern hemisphere.
--- End quote ---
Labrador is on the east cost of a large land mass, so it will be colder, than the same parallel on the other side of the Atlantic. Sakhalin island on the east coast of Russia is much colder, than Cambridge, even though it's much further south, on 46° parallel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk#Geography_and_climate
The Gulf Stream provides very little heat to Western Europe. The wind transports much more heat energy from the equator, to Europe, than the Gulf Stream. Here's a link to an article which explains it quite well.
http://ocp.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/gs/
--- Quote from: dolbeau on February 24, 2021, 05:28:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:10 pm ---For example, we normally think of Canada as a cold country, but the west coast has a similar climate to Northern Europe, with Vancouver and Calais having similar average temperatures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calais#Geography_and_climate
--- End quote ---
Yes, and from those very pages Vancouver is 49°15′39″N, while Calais is 50°56′53″N, or almost 200km more northern for Calais. They may have similar climates, but at dissimilar latitudes.
--- End quote ---
Calais and Vancouver are on similar latitudes: 200km hardly makes any difference to the annual average temperature.
--- Quote ---New York is 40.71'°N, technically south of Barcelona (41°23′N). Average low for January in New York is -2.8°C, for Barcelona 8.8°C. Snow is a common winter event in New York ; it's very rare in Barcelona. Very similar latitude, very dissimilar climate.
Bordeaux is 44°50′N and has very extensive vineyards, famously. I could be missing on something, but I'm not aware of much wine shipping from Halifax (44°52′N) - it seems unlike Bordeaux, the climate doesn't agree with the vines...
The east coast *is* colder than western Europe at similar latitudes.
... though global warming might change this; anyone know a good spot to grow vines near Halifax in the future? :-)
--- End quote ---
No global warming won't change it. Western Europe will always be warmer, than Eastern North America.
--- Quote ---Edit: ... I should have remembered which coast Vancouver is on *before* posting :-) Can't find good latitude matches on the west coast (Bordeaux is at a similar latitude to Salem, Oregon, of which I confess I know nothing about...)
--- End quote ---
I'm not saying that the west coast of North America has exactly the same climate, as Europe. It doesn't, but it's much more similar to Europe, temperature wise, than Eastern Canada, because it's downwind of a large ocean. The arrangement of landmasses, mountains and sea surface temperatures make a difference to both rainfall and temperature, but not so much as being downwind of a large ocean vs a continent.
Another example is Quimper, Northwestern France and Seattle. Granted, they're not exactly at the same latitude and don't have exactly the same temperatures, but they're both much warmer than Eastern North America and East Asia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quimper#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle#Climate
Here's a post, based on the article I linked to above, with some pictures. Note that the North Atlantic current misses most of the UK and goes up to Iceland and Norway.
https://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2012/06/what-do-you-mean-the-gulf-stream-doesnt-keep-europe-warm-how-even-scientists-are-afflicted-by-urban-myths/
Renate:
We can argue about weather, but we can't argue about latitude.
I'm in the US but at the latitude of Algeria.
That does have certain advantages for solar power compared to Finland. :-+
boffin:
--- Quote from: drussell on February 24, 2021, 05:48:59 pm ---Actually, Nova Scotia is one of the more prolific wine producing regions in Canada...
--- End quote ---
No, not really, Ontario & BC account for 95% of Canadian wine production, Nova Scotia is a drop in the barrel by comparison, in 2015 there was only 256 ha of vineyard in NS.
But back to comparison, while Halifax and Bordeaux are on the same latitude, you'd never get a 'Bordeaux Grape' (Cab Sav, Cab Franc, Merlot...) to grow in Nova Scotia. What NS produces (white wines) are much more akin to what germany and austria (not australia) produce.
JohnnyMalaria:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 24, 2021, 07:16:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on February 23, 2021, 10:08:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:10 pm ---Interesting. What did you do in Cambridge?
--- End quote ---
Drove mindlessly up and down the A10 to Ware until I found an escape route to the sun :)
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:10 pm ---That's one of the oldest myths in the book or meteorology. The UK gets very little heat from the Gulf Stream. The reason why Western Europe is colder, than corresponding parallels on the eastern side of North America, is because it's downwind of a large expanse of ocean. Western North America has similar temperatures to equivalent latitudes in Western Europe, because of the westerlies blowing over the warm Pacific. The east coasts of large landmasses are uniquely cold. The nearby sea limits summer warmth and in winter, the wind has blown over a the freezing continent, although it's a little less cold then, than further inland.
--- End quote ---
I have to disagree. Cambridge, for example, is the same latitude as Labrador. Much of the rain in NW Europe is exactly because of the moist air carried by the gulf stream eventually cooling enough to dump the water. Watch the path tropical waves off the west coast of Africa typically take - they head towards the east US and then travel up the coast on the gulf stream only to dump on Europe. The reasons that make NW Europe warmer than the American Atlantic coastal regions at the same latitude are the same as why the Pacific waters are much cooler than the Atlantic equivalents - large clockwise currents in the northern hemisphere.
--- End quote ---
Labrador is on the east cost of a large land mass, so it will be colder, than the same parallel on the other side of the Atlantic. Sakhalin island on the east coast of Russia is much colder, than Cambridge, even though it's much further south, on 46° parallel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk#Geography_and_climate
The Gulf Stream provides very little heat to Western Europe. The wind transports much more heat energy from the equator, to Europe, than the Gulf Stream. Here's a link to an article which explains it quite well.
http://ocp.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/gs/
--- Quote from: dolbeau on February 24, 2021, 05:28:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:10 pm ---For example, we normally think of Canada as a cold country, but the west coast has a similar climate to Northern Europe, with Vancouver and Calais having similar average temperatures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calais#Geography_and_climate
--- End quote ---
Yes, and from those very pages Vancouver is 49°15′39″N, while Calais is 50°56′53″N, or almost 200km more northern for Calais. They may have similar climates, but at dissimilar latitudes.
--- End quote ---
Calais and Vancouver are on similar latitudes: 200km hardly makes any difference to the annual average temperature.
--- Quote ---New York is 40.71'°N, technically south of Barcelona (41°23′N). Average low for January in New York is -2.8°C, for Barcelona 8.8°C. Snow is a common winter event in New York ; it's very rare in Barcelona. Very similar latitude, very dissimilar climate.
Bordeaux is 44°50′N and has very extensive vineyards, famously. I could be missing on something, but I'm not aware of much wine shipping from Halifax (44°52′N) - it seems unlike Bordeaux, the climate doesn't agree with the vines...
The east coast *is* colder than western Europe at similar latitudes.
... though global warming might change this; anyone know a good spot to grow vines near Halifax in the future? :-)
--- End quote ---
No global warming won't change it. Western Europe will always be warmer, than Eastern North America.
--- Quote ---Edit: ... I should have remembered which coast Vancouver is on *before* posting :-) Can't find good latitude matches on the west coast (Bordeaux is at a similar latitude to Salem, Oregon, of which I confess I know nothing about...)
--- End quote ---
I'm not saying that the west coast of North America has exactly the same climate, as Europe. It doesn't, but it's much more similar to Europe, temperature wise, than Eastern Canada, because it's downwind of a large ocean. The arrangement of landmasses, mountains and sea surface temperatures make a difference to both rainfall and temperature, but not so much as being downwind of a large ocean vs a continent.
Another example is Quimper, Northwestern France and Seattle. Granted, they're not exactly at the same latitude and don't have exactly the same temperatures, but they're both much warmer than Eastern North America and East Asia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quimper#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle#Climate
Here's a post, based on the article I linked to above, with some pictures. Note that the North Atlantic current misses most of the UK and goes up to Iceland and Norway.
https://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2012/06/what-do-you-mean-the-gulf-stream-doesnt-keep-europe-warm-how-even-scientists-are-afflicted-by-urban-myths/
--- End quote ---
This has got me thinking :)
I used to live in Bristol - it was very wet a lot of the time. After a 2 year hiatus in Texas, I lived in Melbourn. I was struck by how different the weather was in the east of England compared to the west. I remember remarking that I hadn't used my windscreen wipers in nearly 3 months. The east of the country was also more prone to the bitter cold from Siberia.
Most of the winter rains in the UK come from Atlantic weather systems which are usually former tropical depressions often carried north by the Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Current. The western British Isles is certainly heavily influenced by the Gulf Stream. And to illustrate the diversity of weather in England further, I grew up in Portsmouth. In the summer, there were frequent nightly thunderstorms that came from France. I don't think I recall a decent thunderstorm in Cambs. Of course, none compared to the daily 4pm monsters in Texas and the insane rapid temperature drop (15degC in 10 minutes one time).
Gyro:
The thing that really controls our short term (1week - 1 month) weather is the tortuous path that the Jet Stream takes over the Atlantic. This flips up and down, roughly centred on the UK. If it flips North of the UK it pulls up hot / humid weather from Southern Europe and Africa (Saharan dust on the cars). If centred it tends to pull in medium temperature damp air from the Atlantic. If it flips down across northern Europe, then it pulls down Arctic air from Siberia.
The direction and speed of the Jet Stream, you can get some fairly different weather in different parts of the UK - as JohnnyMalaria mentioned, wetter in the west, a tendency to be colder in the East, and thunderstorms being dragged up over the channel in the South (and particularly South East). Underneath all of this lies the long term effect of the warm water from the Gulf Stream running up the West coast, giving a tendency for warmer weather in Cornwall and the West coast in general (as far North as the West coast of Scotland.
Whilst we don't get the massive excursions of some more extreme climates, we get lots of day to day, week to week variability which leads to the semi-myth that the British are always talking about the weather.
Unfortunately the Jet Stream is becoming more energetic and variable over time, leading to more unpredictable weather, more frequent flooding events, storms and occasionally some spectacularly short US - UK flight times.
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