Author Topic: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020  (Read 21913 times)

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Offline Deodand2014

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2020, 01:10:12 am »
Most of the young people in the mobile phone generation have fewer social skills than those who grew up in a more balanced society, so they have to resort to the Internet to find a spouse. I know a woman who has only met social misfits and weirdos on the Internet dating sites. If young people don't volunteer, get involved with clubs, church, university social gatherings, or even go to the local pub or discotheque, their chances of meeting a decent partner are somewhat limited.

And once politics enters the mix it becomes impossible...

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Not wanting to date "woke" women, far from being laughable, is actually one of the more insidious aspects of it.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2020/01/9244509/laurence-fox-anti-woke-meaning
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2020, 01:12:31 am »
Most of the young people in the mobile phone generation have fewer social skills than those who grew up in a more balanced society, so they have to resort to the Internet to find a spouse. I know a woman who has only met social misfits and weirdos on the Internet dating sites. If young people don't volunteer, get involved with clubs, church, university social gatherings, or even go to the local pub or discotheque, their chances of meeting a decent partner are somewhat limited.

I think that's a rather warped impression.

People in the mobile generation grew up with that communication medium being an integral part of society, they never lived in a world without the internet and communicating online is a natural part of their lives. It's not a matter of "resorting to the internet", rather they are already socializing on the internet, they are already interacting and meeting new people, "online" is a seamless part of society these days, it's only natural that some will form romantic relationships with people they met in this way.

I know a woman that has only met social misfits and weirdos in the "real world" so what's your point? The sort of people one meets is more often down to the sort of traits they are attracted to and the way that they present themselves. The internet is no different than anywhere else, it's a method of communication, nothing more. It's not 1998 anymore, the internet is not dominated by geeks and weirdos, everyone is using it now. Volunteering, clubs, church, university, social gatherings, all those things you mention are still around, although most also have an online presence. I'm not really a user of traditional social media but if you can hold your nose and hop onto Facebook you'll find countless groups for all of these things. No longer are we limited to the dating pool available in whatever little town we live in or reliant on going away to school in the big city to meet a partner, people can meet and interact with people all over the world. Romance aside, the internet has enabled me to meet loads of friends who share my interests, some of the more unusual ones I thought for a long time I was the only one.

Frankly, and I mean no disrespect and am not exactly young myself, but this sounds like a classic example of an older generation not understanding the younger generations and the evolutions in society that have taken place, lamenting these young whippersnappers and their newfangled technology, slang, music and everything else that is not as good as things were back in their day when life was hard and they walked 20 miles through the snow up-hill both ways to get to school. This cycle is as old as time, in a handful of decades the people who are coming of age now are going to be moaning about all the silly stuff kids are doing and how much worse everything is just like the older generations are doing today. 
 
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Offline edy

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2020, 02:05:04 am »
This is a complex issue. My 2 cents worth... Dating is extremely difficult and sometimes having so many options is bad. Many cultures have different approaches, but couples must realize that you don't just get married and stop there. The person you marry when you are 20 will be different (and so will you) when you are 30, 40, 50 and so on. It is a journey with many ups and downs and your life partner and you have to work together.

I find that the person to do this with is someone who complements you, builds on your weaknesses and your strengths build on theirs. Opposites attract but then again common interests also do. It helps when you can navigate this complexity of mental, skill and personality traits and find the right match (which doesn't always mean same but match as in complementary) factors. Again, finding a mate is not simply based on "computational matching" by some algorithm on a dating site. I don't believe that in a second.

You can argue the visual attraction bit, but then people say love is blind. It is complicated... but last thing I must add is that if you really want to know, look around at those old folks with 50+ year anniversaries and see if they have any gems to share. It could also be "survivor bias" and that it really is impossible to know for sure at the outset. Like I said... complicated!!!
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2020, 02:05:24 am »
Most of the young people in the mobile phone generation have fewer social skills than those who grew up in a more balanced society, so they have to resort to the Internet to find a spouse. I know a woman who has only met social misfits and weirdos on the Internet dating sites. If young people don't volunteer, get involved with clubs, church, university social gatherings, or even go to the local pub or discotheque, their chances of meeting a decent partner are somewhat limited.

I think that's a rather warped impression.

People in the mobile generation grew up with that communication medium being an integral part of society, they never lived in a world without the internet and communicating online is a natural part of their lives. It's not a matter of "resorting to the internet", rather they are already socializing on the internet, they are already interacting and meeting new people, "online" is a seamless part of society these days, it's only natural that some will form romantic relationships with people they met in this way.

I know a woman that has only met social misfits and weirdos in the "real world" so what's your point? The sort of people one meets is more often down to the sort of traits they are attracted to and the way that they present themselves. The internet is no different than anywhere else, it's a method of communication, nothing more. It's not 1998 anymore, the internet is not dominated by geeks and weirdos, everyone is using it now. Volunteering, clubs, church, university, social gatherings, all those things you mention are still around, although most also have an online presence. I'm not really a user of traditional social media but if you can hold your nose and hop onto Facebook you'll find countless groups for all of these things. No longer are we limited to the dating pool available in whatever little town we live in or reliant on going away to school in the big city to meet a partner, people can meet and interact with people all over the world. Romance aside, the internet has enabled me to meet loads of friends who share my interests, some of the more unusual ones I thought for a long time I was the only one.

Frankly, and I mean no disrespect and am not exactly young myself, but this sounds like a classic example of an older generation not understanding the younger generations and the evolutions in society that have taken place, lamenting these young whippersnappers and their newfangled technology, slang, music and everything else that is not as good as things were back in their day when life was hard and they walked 20 miles through the snow up-hill both ways to get to school. This cycle is as old as time, in a handful of decades the people who are coming of age now are going to be moaning about all the silly stuff kids are doing and how much worse everything is just like the older generations are doing today. 

The rhetoric spread though media that women consume often asks the question "Where have all the good men gone?"

You're saying that like never before like-minded people can hook up (both literary and metaphorically), and yet, here we are.
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2020, 02:11:55 am »
This is a complex issue. My 2 cents worth... Dating is extremely difficult and sometimes having so many options is bad. Many cultures have different approaches, but couples must realize that you don't just get married and stop there. The person you marry when you are 20 will be different (and so will you) when you are 30, 40, 50 and so on. It is a journey with many ups and downs and your life partner and you have to work together.

I find that the person to do this with is someone who complements you, builds on your weaknesses and your strengths build on theirs. Opposites attract but then again common interests also do. It helps when you can navigate this complexity of mental, skill and personality traits and find the right match (which doesn't always mean same but match as in complementary) factors. Again, finding a mate is not simply based on "computational matching" by some algorithm on a dating site. I don't believe that in a second.

You can argue the visual attraction bit, but then people say love is blind. It is complicated... but last thing I must add is that if you really want to know, look around at those old folks with 50+ year anniversaries and see if they have any gems to share. It could also be "survivor bias" and that it really is impossible to know for sure at the outset. Like I said... complicated!!!

Not really. Those with 50+ years of marriage are likely to be victims of shotgun marriages. The baby came along and you had no time to sit around in front of the TV that tells you how much you should hate your spouse.

Ask any middle aged married man if the woman he married is the same as the woman he dated. Then ask that woman if her man has changed at all.

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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2020, 02:41:37 am »




iratus parum formica
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2020, 03:04:34 am »
Another big part of the problem is the dating apps and websites all conspire to get more money from users.
Fake profiles, fake communications to bait a person into getting a paid subscription, with no cancellation or charge backs once you realize it's a sexy looking scammer or a bot sending you messages.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is suing Match Group ($24B market cap) which owns Match.com (also Tinder, Hinge, Match, PlentyOfFish, Meetic, OkCupid, OurTime, Pairs) for using fake love interest ads to persuade consumers to pay for subscriptions, from 2013-2018. It was $62M but they didn't settle I think. http://match.mediaroom.com/2019-09-25-Match-Responds-to-FTC-lawsuit
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2020, 04:35:52 am »
Not really. Those with 50+ years of marriage are likely to be victims of shotgun marriages. The baby came along and you had no time to sit around in front of the TV that tells you how much you should hate your spouse.

Ask any middle aged married man if the woman he married is the same as the woman he dated. Then ask that woman if her man has changed at all.

I've known a handful of people who stayed happily married for decades, of course both people changed but that doesn't mean they felt differently about each other. It seems to be a minority but they are out there. Both of my grandparents and both of my partner's grandparents stayed married until death and none of them were forced into it. It's too soon to say whether the internet will change anything as the internet as we know it today hasn't been around long enough.

Doesn't always happen of course, the reasons for that being widely varied. Sometimes they got married for the wrong reasons, other times they changed with age and were no longer compatible. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to go separate ways if things are really not working out, though I do think people who have committed ought to put in a good effort to make it work but really it's not of my business. None of that has anything to do with the internet. 
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2020, 01:06:24 pm »
Not really. Those with 50+ years of marriage are likely to be victims of shotgun marriages. The baby came along and you had no time to sit around in front of the TV that tells you how much you should hate your spouse.

Ask any middle aged married man if the woman he married is the same as the woman he dated. Then ask that woman if her man has changed at all.

I've known a handful of people who stayed happily married for decades, of course both people changed but that doesn't mean they felt differently about each other. It seems to be a minority but they are out there. Both of my grandparents and both of my partner's grandparents stayed married until death and none of them were forced into it. It's too soon to say whether the internet will change anything as the internet as we know it today hasn't been around long enough.

Doesn't always happen of course, the reasons for that being widely varied. Sometimes they got married for the wrong reasons, other times they changed with age and were no longer compatible. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to go separate ways if things are really not working out, though I do think people who have committed ought to put in a good effort to make it work but really it's not of my business. None of that has anything to do with the internet.

The reasons people stay together (or not) probably haven't changed as a result of the advent of the Internet.  All it has done is made it easier (in some ways) to find someone...   but at the same time, also more difficult (much more choice?).  Seems to me that you are always more likely to meet / fall in love with someone that "exists locally" to you...  there is a large element of randomness in the game of life.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2020, 02:24:28 pm »
When couples marry,

... men think that their wife will not change. That is not going to happen!

... women think that their man will change. That is not going to happen either!
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2020, 04:00:54 pm »
Just a few thoughts.

My sister met someone using the Internet, married him and now has two children. She definitely does love him, but I wouldn't say she's 100% happily married. He's very lazy and has never had a proper job. He did earn some money doing various things such as web design and running a window cleaning business, which involved organising window cleaning rounds for others, rather than doing it himself. He found it too stressful, so sold the business to his parents, who paid him back in weekly instalments over a five year period.  Now he doesn't even try to do any work and his parents have finished paying him for the business, so they've run out of money. My sister does her best working as a self-employed domestic cleaner, but it isn't enough to pay the rent. She might have had a better job, as a teacher, but he discouraged her from continuing her career as a teaching assistant, shortly after they got married. They and their children will be moving in with his parents in the spring. They have a couple of ideas: buying a camper van and living like gypsies or helping his parents to buy their council house and building a small house for them to live in, in the garden. They don't have the money for either of these. I suspect the gypsies option is more likely, but it won't work in the long term.

Being tall is attractive, yet interestingly it's quite likely bad for ones health overall and results in a shorter life expectancy. Fortunately I'm a little on the short side at 174cm, but not so dinky I feel bad about my height.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071721/

Lastly what's wrong with being single? I have dabbled with Internet dating, but have never met anyone in real life. I also went through a phase of expanding my social circuit in the hope of meeting new people, a few years ago, but have since lost interest in it. I'm generally happy single and don't have any motivation to do any dating.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2020, 04:18:57 pm »
Just a few thoughts.

My sister met someone using the Internet, married him and now has two children. She definitely does love him, but I wouldn't say she's 100% happily married. He's very lazy and has never had a proper job. He did earn some money doing various things such as web design and running a window cleaning business, which involved organising window cleaning rounds for others, rather than doing it himself. He found it too stressful, so sold the business to his parents, who paid him back in weekly instalments over a five year period.  Now he doesn't even try to do any work and his parents have finished paying him for the business, so they've run out of money. My sister does her best working as a self-employed domestic cleaner, but it isn't enough to pay the rent. She might have had a better job, as a teacher, but he discouraged her from continuing her career as a teaching assistant, shortly after they got married. They and their children will be moving in with his parents in the spring. They have a couple of ideas: buying a camper van and living like gypsies or helping his parents to buy their council house and building a small house for them to live in, in the garden. They don't have the money for either of these. I suspect the gypsies option is more likely, but it won't work in the long term.

Being tall is attractive, yet interestingly it's quite likely bad for ones health overall and results in a shorter life expectancy. Fortunately I'm a little on the short side at 174cm, but not so dinky I feel bad about my height.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071721/

Lastly what's wrong with being single? I have dabbled with Internet dating, but have never met anyone in real life. I also went through a phase of expanding my social circuit in the hope of meeting new people, a few years ago, but have since lost interest in it. I'm generally happy single and don't have any motivation to do any dating.

Everyone has different dreams/goals for what they want to achieve, and what they see themselves as happy with. 

Things get really difficult if your dreams far outstrips your talents/capability to ever achieve (or even work towards) achieving them.

Things get even worse if you do have some talent/ability, but choose not to use it for whatever reason (usually, by being too clever by half and always trying to find shortcuts rather than putting in hard effort or even sustained light effort).

We are mammals - the motivation to do dating is baked into the ROM.  I have seen many times (and experienced sometimes!) how otherwise stable people fall hard in love and go through a bout of temporary hormone driven insanity.  It can happen to anyone, anywhere, and usually unexpectedly.

Every woman I have ever had close relations with "happened" outside typical dating environments,  there was never any formal dating...  we just somehow became friends / fell for each other.   The world is full of women looking for company, if only more men could see!  :)   The men that do see, are the ones that seem to get an "unfair share" -  just for noticing them.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2020, 04:32:09 pm »
....
We are mammals - the motivation to do dating is baked into the ROM.
...

Much much more than we dare to accept from ourselves, I suspect.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2020, 07:12:06 pm »
....
We are mammals - the motivation to do dating is baked into the ROM.
...

Much much more than we dare to accept from ourselves, I suspect.

Procreating the species is fundamental to all life...   

Cultures are different in their acceptance of the facts of mammal life.  Some have a more puritan leaning approach (east coast USA, northern Europe), some openly savour the passions (France, Italy etc.).   Of course individuals in all societies have their own take on things and conform to their cultural norms to a greater or lesser degree, depending...
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2020, 07:58:52 pm »
I have a policy of never entering into a contractual business arrangement with someone who simply lives with a partner instead of getting married. To me, it indicates their attitude toward sticking with agreements; wanting an easy way out if things don’t go their way.

Seems like you took an easy way out.
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Online Zero999

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2020, 08:29:58 pm »
Everyone has different dreams/goals for what they want to achieve, and what they see themselves as happy with. 

Things get really difficult if your dreams far outstrips your talents/capability to ever achieve (or even work towards) achieving them.

Things get even worse if you do have some talent/ability, but choose not to use it for whatever reason (usually, by being too clever by half and always trying to find shortcuts rather than putting in hard effort or even sustained light effort).
I agree with you about the first point, but why is having a talent/ability but choosing not to use it such a big deal? No doubt many people have above average abilities in many things, but choose not to use them, because they lack interest or have other priorities. Someone might be very good at maths and would make a great engineer, but don't want to study it further, because they're more interested in sport and socialising and aren't bothered about earning lots of money. They might not be great at sports, so end up working in a sport shop and be very happy there.

....
We are mammals - the motivation to do dating is baked into the ROM.
...

Much much more than we dare to accept from ourselves, I suspect.

Procreating the species is fundamental to all life... 
Tell that to gay people.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2020, 08:34:30 pm »

The rhetoric spread though media that women consume often asks the question "Where have all the good men gone?"

  First, I think that the women's magazines and TV shows feed that type mentality. Second, I've seen a hell of lot of women/girls fall for guys that were worthless hulks then after they get fed up with them they bail out of the relationship and then sit around and complain that there are no good men. There were, and still are, plenty of good men but they don't all happen to look like Burt Reynolds.  My sister fits this description to a T. She's been married to flashy guys three times and none of them lasted and now she's rapidly becoming a bitter old spinster that no one can stand to be around.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2020, 08:35:29 pm »
Procreating the species is fundamental to all life... 
Tell that to gay people.


Procreating the species is fundamental to all life, but that doesn't mean that all members of a species have to procreate. It's possible to have a situation like we humans now have, there are more than enough of us already and not everyone's efforts are best spent procreating.

Gay people (and other species) are an anomaly, for whatever reasons a small percentage of the population ends up gay, it's not contagious and for the most part it doesn't lead to breeding so I strongly suspect the percentage has remained fairly constant throughout history and will continue to remain fairly constant. If a majority of people were gay then we'd have issues but in reality it's way, way below the threshold at which it would threaten survival of the species. 
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2020, 08:41:37 pm »
The reproductive agenda is so strong, I see women panic and pick a guy "who'll do" for having kids with and years later they are in hell because that match is terrible.
Relationships have left people as burn victims, especially after making a bad choice for a partner or going through divorce. The dating apps/websites have resulted in a "hookup culture" where you don't really need a relationship to get the benefits.
The women I know looking for love and dating (after having kids, divorce etc), they complain men only want something casual and that they have a harem. They make the rounds, and any friction and a gal gets easily dumped. There is nothing for commitment, it's not needed it seems.


 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2020, 11:19:32 pm »
[...]
The women I know looking for love and dating (after having kids, divorce etc), they complain men only want something casual and that they have a harem. They make the rounds, and any friction and a gal gets easily dumped. There is nothing for commitment, it's not needed it seems.

People need to be clear with themselves about which type of relationship they are looking for...   if it is the long term kind,  it really takes two people that already know how that kind of relationship works to find each other.  And by the nature of the long term relationship, most people who are capable of having them...  are already in one!   There really is no substitute for time, when it comes to a longer term relationship...   it is almost implicit in what it is.   There are probably no shortcuts, other than picking decent partners in the first place - partners that at least have a chance to stand the test of time.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2020, 11:22:13 pm »
You are rationalising a process where the ratio isn’t the controlling part of our brain. How many of us decide whom they fall in love with, then make a series of logical steps to a steady future?
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2020, 11:55:16 pm »
Indeed. In my case I followed my dick and ended up married and I admit that.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2020, 11:58:44 pm »
You are rationalising a process where the ratio isn’t the controlling part of our brain. How many of us decide whom they fall in love with, then make a series of logical steps to a steady future?

Totally agree.

I should probably just have said:  A long term relationship may result after the irrational, random phase is over!
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2020, 02:10:40 am »
Indeed. In my case I followed my dick and ended up married and I admit that.

  LOL!  Sometimes that works out ok.  My first wife and I were passionately in love but it didn't work out. I followed my dick the next time and I've been married longer than many of you have been alive.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The art of (internet) dating - year 2020
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2020, 05:07:52 am »
The women I know looking for love and dating (after having kids, divorce etc), they complain men only want something casual and that they have a harem. They make the rounds, and any friction and a gal gets easily dumped. There is nothing for commitment, it's not needed it seems.

Men like that have always existed, an older friend of mine went to college in the early 70s and mentioned a friend of his in school who "majored in fornication", it's always been a thing.

The pool of men looking to be the step-dad of some other man's kids is considerably smaller than that seeking women without such existing commitments however kids are not a huge obstacle to a casual fling. It's only natural that it's harder for those women to find a guy who wants something long term.
 


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