General > General Technical Chat
The BIG EEVblog Server Fire
<< < (30/36) > >>
calzap:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 11, 2021, 07:46:55 am ---I've seen natural gas fired backup generators which have the obvious advantage of fuel being piped in rather than stored on the premises. Propane, that I have not seen other than for small portable generators and some that are used in RVs where you already have propane available. I think diesel pretty much owns the large backup generator market, the engines are the same as used for things like semi trucks, motor yachts and locomotives. I don't think anybody is making huge spark ignition engines anymore although there have been some really big ones in the past.

--- End quote ---
I agree diesel-powered industrial generators are probably the most common now.  However, I think that will change in favor of natural gas and propane where they are readily available.  Energy costs, emissions limits and fuel stability will bring it about.

Natural gas has the advantage of not having to store it on site.  In fact, storing it on site, as CNG or LNG is an expensive proposition.  However, as recent events in Texas have shown, natural disasters can stop the flow of natural gas.  That low temperatures did it is primarily a reflection of inappropriate penny-pinching in engineering and building pumping stations.  Even with appropriate design and installation, natural disasters can interrupt flow … like in an earthquake area where I live.

Large industrial standby generators powered by propane or natural gas are already available.  For example, Generac sells 150 kW propane generators and 500 kW dual fuel (natural gas/ diesel).  And no, separate engines aren’t required for natural gas/diesel gensets.  They are diesel engines modified to aspirate an air/gas mixture, which provides most of the energy.  Small diesel injections provide ignition, but the engines can run on diesel alone if necessary.  Generac’s largest natural gas generator is 1 MW and powered by a 12-cylinder, 49 L spark-ignited engine.

Mike in California
tautech:
Gas powered gensets are nothing special or new. Not far from me is a bank of 1MW gensets running on methane from a landfill.
https://www.terracat.co.nz/power-systems/new-power-systems/epg/gas-generator-sets
james_s:

--- Quote from: madires on April 11, 2021, 11:27:21 am ---I'd think that propane is more prone to a nice BOOM than diesel. BTW, it's also heavier than air. And don't worry too much about the storage of diesel. Storage regulations for oil and oil based fuels take care about that.

--- End quote ---

That's definitely true. You can throw a lighted match into a bucket of diesel fuel and it will go out. If you do manage to light the stuff, it burns pretty lethargically, it's similar to kerosene or salad oil as far as flammability. Propane on the other hand can be dangerous stuff. Unlike many fuels, it doesn't need a stoichiometric mixture to burn explosively, indeed a small engine will run pretty well if you just poke the end of a non-lit propane torch into the air intake, it's not like gasoline where the mixture has to be just right, propane will still go bang in very rich or very lean conditions.
floobydust:
I looked at google street view and only one exhaust pipe for a generator, near the electrical room.
The facility appears to be in some old warehouse (military?) district with brick exterior walls and a wooden roof? If true that's a problem.

Had to laugh, not a solar panel in sight.
NiHaoMike:
How much can the backup power infrastructure be cut back if there's a system to force all CPUs to minimum frequency when running on backup power?
Navigation
Message Index
Next page
Previous page
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...

Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod