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the dark side of cobalt
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NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: vad on July 15, 2023, 12:32:20 pm ---I beg your pardon, what better alternatives can replace fossil fuels now and in the foreseeable future?

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How about just using less for a start? One example would be to require all new cars to get at least 35 MPG highway, a level that was easily achievable over a decade ago.
PlainName:

--- Quote ---require all new cars to get at least 35 MPG highway
--- End quote ---

Without cheating  8)
vad:

--- Quote from: Marco on July 15, 2023, 01:06:58 pm ---When there is a gun to your head, better is not getting shot.

--- End quote ---
Putting aside the discussion of whether there is a real gun or if it is all a delusion…

Let's say you decide to reduce energy consumption by a factor of 5, to get rid of dependency on fossil fuel energy sources. This would involve constructing houses that require 5 times fewer materials for building and 5 times less energy for maintenance and heating and cooling, using vehicles that require 5 times less energy for manufacturing, driving and recycling (such as electric scooters instead of fancy family EVs), consuming 5 times less food, and overall reducing consumption by 5 times in every category.

How would you force your neighbors to switch to a 500-calorie-per-day diet and living in dens? I understand that regulations, policies, and imprisonment in socialist labor camps could be a potential approach. Fair enough.

But how would you ensure that China and Russia also follow this trend? Start a war? Remember, that you also cut your military by the factor of 5.

I am just curious.
NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: vad on July 15, 2023, 01:34:48 pm ---consuming 5 times less food

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Or produce 5 times as much food for the resources used. Turns out that's as simple as getting rid of factory farming and replacing it with sustainable farming, which also would cut down on deforestation. There's also a lot of health problems with factory farming, so a good reason to rapidly phase it out.
Marco:

--- Quote from: vad on July 15, 2023, 01:34:48 pm ---Putting aside the discussion of whether there is a real gun or if it is all a delusion…

--- End quote ---

Not really the gun I was talking about, I meant the real guns from government. Especially in the EU treaties have a habit of leading a life of their own.

--- Quote ---Let's say you decide to reduce energy consumption by a factor of 5
--- End quote ---
Energy inputs are nowhere near a large enough input for western consumption to drive down consumption linearly with energy costs. Building up renewables and renewable fuel infrastructure is very expensive, but we are very very rich and very very productive. It's just a question of mobilisation.

By the time the west has pulled the cart and mass production has started and R&D cost has been paid, it will be a lot cheaper for the rest of the world. No strings attached globalisation is dead, they will transition away from fossil fuel because it's cheaper than being isolated from the west.
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