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| The Electric Vehicle Future: Where is all the power going to come from? |
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| tom66:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 18, 2020, 06:57:27 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on February 18, 2020, 06:48:05 pm ---I don't see how you can say EV and ICE are even remotely comparable in terms of complexity. --- End quote --- That is your problem; perhaps you think all mechanical stuff is complex. All the items you listed are extremely simple mechanical systems which are well understood. Drive belts for example are known for at least 1000 years. --- End quote --- I didn't say it wasn't understood, but it is complex. There is no doubt that an electric vehicle has a simpler mechanical complexity than an ICE vehicle and I would argue once the reliability of sensors, additional motors/coolant pumps/gearbox actuators (if automatic) etc are considered, that an ICE vehicle has a more complex electrical system as well. The servicing schedule of an ICE car vs an EV car should make this obvious. Most cars require regular filter and oil changes, whereas the Model 3 has no required servicing besides a differential oil change at 120k miles and a body inspection every 40k miles. |
| maginnovision:
--- Quote from: tom66 on February 18, 2020, 06:48:05 pm --- --- Quote from: nctnico on February 18, 2020, 05:07:21 pm ---Now you focus purely on the drivetrain. If you look at the big picture an EV and ICE car are equally complicated. The complicated bit is just in different areas. For example: the cooling system of an ICE based car is much less complex compared to an EV which needs to actively cool and heat drive electronics and the battery pack. If you compile an entire list you'll see it will be equal. Also cars are engineered for a certain MTBF so all in all the overall reliability will be the same. --- End quote --- An ICE needs: - Exhaust systems - Emissions control systems - Various air/oil/fuel/transmission filters - A multispeed transmission, CVT, *and/or* hybrid system - A starter motor/alternator and battery supply for such (if not hybrid) - A turbo (on some models) - A radiator capable of dissipating >60kW for cruising speeds - A litany of engine sensors - Timing belts and belt driven water pumps - and so on None of that is needed by an EV. And modern EVs, including the Model 3, use a slightly more complex cooling system, sure. But even they have started using the EV motor to heat the coolant. The Model Y is slated to have 25% less wiring km than the Model 3, despite being a larger vehicle. I don't see how you can say EV and ICE are even remotely comparable in terms of complexity. --- End quote --- It seems you don't understand cars that well. Most of that is what we call... An engine. Yes, an ICE needs an engine. What do you think an ev drive electronics system is made of? An atmel mcu and a single mosfet? The battery/drive electronics/motor are not simple and not serviceable by Joe Bob other than to replace aside from the battery which he may be just as likely to damage as repair. |
| ogden:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 18, 2020, 06:57:27 pm ---@ogden: do your own homework instead of posting lame pictures which say nothing. --- End quote --- You did not produce *any* picture, lame or not. Hydrogen price: $12.85/kg 64$ to fill Mirai is not that far from 85$ mentioned in "lame picture". Your turn. This time provide results of your homework, not :blah: :blah: [edit] Electricity price 13$/kWh is not that far as well. Resource that says that hydrogen cost is €11.29 per kg + VAT: http://www.h2-suedtirol.com/en/hydrogen/faqs/ |
| Marco:
--- Quote from: tom66 on February 18, 2020, 06:54:38 pm ---Hydrogen pricing is £10 per kg here, seems to be the same in the States roughly [1] --- End quote --- The industrial cost per ton are a better indicator than current pump cost for a mass adoption scenario, which is driven by sky high overheads due to low volumes. Hydrogen doesn't have an electricity grid to piggy back on, so it needs more upfront investment ... it needs state support. |
| richard.cs:
--- Quote from: maginnovision on February 18, 2020, 05:19:40 pm ---A modern vehicle is made with repairability in mind. --- End quote --- Really? I am utterly unconvinced there having wrestled with cars that needed an hour of disassembly to change a headlight bulb or spark plugs. --- Quote from: maginnovision on February 18, 2020, 05:19:40 pm ---EVs are made so the big components can be swapped and sent off to be rebuilt. Imagine if you had to do that with your ICE vehicle. Leaking valve cover gasket? Well you need to pay to replace the engine and we'll have you back on the road. --- End quote --- This is pretty common with ICE car parts. Part exchange the faulty thing and pay the cost of having it refurbished in a factory but take a different reconditioned one to fit to your car. Starter motors, alternators, shock absorbers, gearboxes are all commonly handled this way. |
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