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| The Electric Vehicle Future: Where is all the power going to come from? |
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| nctnico:
--- Quote from: tom66 on February 18, 2020, 07:01:31 pm --- --- Quote from: nctnico on February 18, 2020, 06:57:27 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on February 18, 2020, 06:48:05 pm ---I don't see how you can say EV and ICE are even remotely comparable in terms of complexity. --- End quote --- That is your problem; perhaps you think all mechanical stuff is complex. All the items you listed are extremely simple mechanical systems which are well understood. Drive belts for example are known for at least 1000 years. --- End quote --- I didn't say it wasn't understood, but it is complex. There is no doubt that an electric vehicle has a simpler mechanical complexity than an ICE vehicle and I would argue once the reliability of sensors, additional motors/coolant pumps/gearbox actuators (if automatic) etc are considered, that an ICE vehicle has a more complex electrical system as well. --- End quote --- Sorry but you can run an ICE engine from an 16 bit microcontroller running at several MHz. Including taking care of the sensors (which are only a few: throttle position, air mass, lambda, coolant temperature, crank shaft and knocking). A typical battery pack for an electric moped has a similar processor on board just to manage the battery pack with an equal amount if not more sensors (most for temperature). And we have not gotten to the drive train and cooling system electronics themselves yet. Also don't disregard the mechanical complexity of the drive train of an EV. In a regular ICE car the engine delivers about 100Nm to 300Nm. In first gear a car can develop about 1000Nm on the wheels. In an EV with a fixed gear ratio this ratio will need to be optimised between maximum speed and minimum torque. A regular car has a 1st gear ratio of around 14 to 15 where an EV sits around 10. This means that the motor in an EV has to produce 40% to 50% more torque (rotational force) to pull the car away. Also the motor in an EV runs at much higher revs. Up to 10k RPM. This means needing high quality parts and high precision manufacturing to keep the rotor balanced. There is nothing uncomplicated about it from a manufacturing perspective! |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: ogden on February 18, 2020, 07:18:15 pm --- --- Quote from: nctnico on February 18, 2020, 06:57:27 pm ---@ogden: do your own homework instead of posting lame pictures which say nothing. --- End quote --- You did not produce *any* picture, lame or not. Hydrogen price: $12.85/kg 64$ to fill Mirai is not that far from 85$ mentioned in "lame picture". Your turn. This time provide results of your homework, not :blah: :blah: [edit] Electricity price 13$/kWh is not that far as well. --- End quote --- Over here hydrogen costs 10 euro per kg. Electricity from a public charging point costs 0.47 euro ct per kWh on average from Allego (excluding an hourly tarif if you leave the car parked for too long in some cases). So the Mirai costs 50 euro for a full load of hydrogen and an average EV (480km at 225Wh/km) costs 50.76 euro. Now tell me; given the better range and shorter fueling times for hydrogen which car would people who can't charge from their own sockets prefer? |
| maginnovision:
--- Quote from: richard.cs on February 18, 2020, 07:31:29 pm --- --- Quote from: maginnovision on February 18, 2020, 05:19:40 pm ---A modern vehicle is made with repairability in mind. --- End quote --- Really? I am utterly unconvinced there having wrestled with cars that needed an hour of disassembly to change a headlight bulb or spark plugs. --- Quote from: maginnovision on February 18, 2020, 05:19:40 pm ---EVs are made so the big components can be swapped and sent off to be rebuilt. Imagine if you had to do that with your ICE vehicle. Leaking valve cover gasket? Well you need to pay to replace the engine and we'll have you back on the road. --- End quote --- This is pretty common with ICE car parts. Part exchange the faulty thing and pay the cost of having it refurbished in a factory but take a different reconditioned one to fit to your car. Starter motors, alternators, shock absorbers, gearboxes are all commonly handled this way. --- End quote --- If you've wrestled it's because you didn't know what you were doing or attempting to skip some step. Maybe you're not mechanically inclined. I don't know. While a few parts CAN be rebuilt the majority are not. Cheap shocks can be rebuilt but are usually junked because they aren't worth it(they're mostly cheap). Alternators are rare failures and mostly the same(lots of them you can replace the regulator which most commonly fails). I've repaired transmissions, auto and manual, in the shop. They aren't that difficult. Anything with a core charge is destined to be rebuilt if possible. But you pay a reduced cost in that case(depends on parts but 50% isn't rare). Automatic transmissions are the one place where they should be repaired in shop but usually aren't because it's too dirty or people don't understand them well enough to get quality repairs done. It's why transmission shops still exist. The most common problems are the engine. Replace a drive belt, replace a sensor, replace an injector, replace a camshaft, replace a turbocharger (depending on failure these can be rebuilt too), replace a carbon canister, replace seals, thermostat, radiator, rubber hoses.. It's not hard. To replace any of you EV power train means getting all 4 wheels off the ground, removing the battery(usually) then dropping the subframe to even access the components you need and then all you can do is replace the huge thing for large cost because the rebuild/repair cost isn't known. I've only worked on the BMW i3, i8(I know it's only a hybrid) and active e though as for first hand EV experience. I have talked with friends who work at Tesla though(some techs and a shop manager). |
| nctnico:
Yes. Working on a car definitely takes practise. First time I changed a timing belt I needed a day. The next time only a couple of hours (on the same car that is). |
| ogden:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 18, 2020, 07:43:40 pm ---Over here hydrogen costs 10 euro per kg. Electricity from a public charging point costs 0.47 euro ct per kWh on average from Allego (excluding an hourly tarif if you leave the car parked for too long in some cases). So the Mirai costs 50 euro for a full load of hydrogen and an average EV (480km at 225Wh/km) costs 50.76 euro. --- End quote --- Public chargers "over there"? :) It was about charging @home, in US. Whatever. Even using your numbers cost to fully charge Tesla 3 equipped with 50kWh battery (400km range): 50*0.47=23.5 EUR. --- Quote ---Now tell me; given the better range and shorter fueling times which car would people who can't charge from their own sockets prefer? --- End quote --- Diesel :-DD |
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