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The Electric Vehicle Future: Where is all the power going to come from?

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nctnico:
But how does that stack up against all the extra energy needed for the batteries of an EV? Mining and processing the materials isn't happening by itself and the energy required will need to be generated as well. Well to wheel analysis show an EV has quite a large CO2 footprint to produce.

DBecker:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 14, 2020, 05:52:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: DBecker on February 14, 2020, 05:34:17 pm ---This is such a non-issue that grid-load-sensitive charging is on a slow development cycle.

--- End quote ---
Welll... as it happens an article got published today saying that the public charging points in Amsterdam are providing less power between 18:00 and 21:00 to prevent overloading the grid. And this is with just a handful of electric cars.

--- End quote ---

That's my point.  A fixed time schedule is *not* load sensitive.  Just setting a fixed time period is good enough.  There isn't a pressing need to communicate real-time load information.

The crude load-shedding (A/C and water heater off) schemes of decades past initially sounded as if they would directly apply to EV charging schedules.  But they aren't really in the same category as routine EV charging, which is easily done in the middle of the night when load-shedding isn't needed.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: DBecker on February 14, 2020, 07:48:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 14, 2020, 05:52:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: DBecker on February 14, 2020, 05:34:17 pm ---This is such a non-issue that grid-load-sensitive charging is on a slow development cycle.

--- End quote ---
Welll... as it happens an article got published today saying that the public charging points in Amsterdam are providing less power between 18:00 and 21:00 to prevent overloading the grid. And this is with just a handful of electric cars.

--- End quote ---
That's my point.  A fixed time schedule is *not* load sensitive.  Just setting a fixed time period is good enough.  There isn't a pressing need to communicate real-time load information.

--- End quote ---
No. You are making false assumptions. The public charging points in Amsterdam are dynamically / realtime configured based on the amount of energy the local grid can deliver. The 18:00 to 21:00 time frame is standard but it can be changed if necessary. And more places are going to follow simply because it is necessary.

benst:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 14, 2020, 07:47:33 pm ---But how does that stack up against all the extra energy needed for the batteries of an EV? Mining and processing the materials isn't happening by itself and the energy required will need to be generated as well. Well to wheel analysis show an EV has quite a large CO2 footprint to produce.

--- End quote ---

* You're moving the goal posts. That was not the OP's question.
* Various studies have been done on this subject, of course. I remember one by TNO (an independent research institute in the Netherlands) and the conclusion was that a battery EV had a much lower CO2 footprint during its lifecycle. It was 4 or 5 years ago, so by now it should be even better.
Edit: here is that report (only in Dutch available): http://publications.tno.nl/publication/34616575/gS20vf/TNO-2015-R10386.pdf

Ben

tom66:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 14, 2020, 07:51:40 pm ---No. You are making false assumptions. The public charging points in Amsterdam are dynamically / realtime configured based on the amount of energy the local grid can deliver. The 18:00 to 21:00 time frame is standard but it can be changed if necessary. And more places are going to follow simply because it is necessary.

--- End quote ---

And that's fine.  Most public AC charging is opportunity based.  Charging while visiting the shops or eating at a restaurant.  During which time you can put 30-50 miles of range on your car, enough for PHEV to get home, or an EV user to get to a rapid charger or reduce the time spent charging at home. 

Visit a rapid charger if you want to be assured that it will charge quickly.  Those will not be throttled because they are generally (at least >50kW units) connected directly to the local high voltage grid (11~33kV) which has huge excess capacity inside towns and cities.

EV use requires a different mode of thinking but once you figure it out, it really is at least as convenient if not more convenient than owning a petrol car.  I haven't visited a petrol station in 1 month.  I started with 5/8th of a petrol tank, now I have just under 1/2.  So it should last another month until my next long trip when I will start burning petrol again.  My car just charges overnight or I make sure that I can stop for an hour or two at my destinations. 

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