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The Electric Vehicle Future: Where is all the power going to come from?

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Someone:

--- Quote from: nigelwright7557 on February 15, 2020, 02:07:33 am ---
--- Quote from: edy on February 14, 2020, 01:57:02 am ---A lot of gas is spent idling in traffic. Ideally the efficiency of an electric will mean little to no electricity usage when standing still.
--- End quote ---
Mr car is start/stop anyway.
With a gas engine heat that would have been lost anyway can be used to heat the car instead.
With electric (here in UK where its usually cold) you need to use some battery power to keep warm.
--- End quote ---
Just because you can use a small portion of the waste heat from the combustion engine doesn't bring it anywhere near the energy efficiency of the pure electric alternative. There are sources for "real use" energy consumption figures:
https://ev-database.uk/car/1138/Tesla-Model-3-Long-Range-Dual-Motor
Even when needing to use significant energy for passenger comfort, the total energy use per km is still half when compared to an efficient diesel: 22kWh/100km vs 4l/100km or 40kWh/100km and thats only comparing the corner case of cold highway driving. For city driving the gap widens to the other corner where previous posters have been claiming the 5x advantage of electric cars over combustion, but all cases have the electric car using less energy overall.

Price and/or lifecycle costs (monetary or external/environmental) are much less separated, if at all.

Red Squirrel:
The biggest mistake people seem to make with EVs is they assume people are going to be depleting the entire battery every single day.  That is not going to be the typical use case.  Most people are using their cars to go to work and back, maybe go home for lunch.   For the most part a typical user will be able to just plug it into a regular 120v outlet and it will be topped up by morning.  Either way, most people will be charging at night when demand is low.

Either way, we pay for hydro service, it's up to the hydro companies to figure out how to provide the product if demand suddenly goes up.  It's like anything else.

benst:

--- Quote from: Someone on February 15, 2020, 01:49:52 am ---Its all laziness on your part:

--- End quote ---
You must have overlooked the reference I gave after editing the post. It sites 3-6% external electrical energy needed.

--- Quote ---I could spend hours getting all the geolocations of power stations in the Netherlands to pull that apart, but you're just putting up more vague nonsense without references that is expensive for others to verify. There is a gas power station right in the middle of the Rotterdam refinery complex, using....  a (by)product of refining. Your points miss the absolute fundamentals. You are free to show the list of co-located resources and their feedstocks to show how they are importing fuels.

--- End quote ---
I'm sorry if I have upset you, and please do not spend hours getting all the locations. Here is a list of power plants on that specific location using coal and natural gas:

Coal, biomass: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrale_Maasvlakte and https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engie_Centrale_Rotterdam
Natural gas: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enecogen

I could not find any using byproducts of refining. I'm sure there must be as much re-use as possible, just couldn't find any refs.

Ben

mikeselectricstuff:
ISTR reading something recently from National Grid in the UK that consumption has been falling in the last few years due to energy saving lamps etc.  Their TL;DR was that there is no significant problem nationally, though there may be some local distribution that needs beefing up.
If & when V2G becomes a serious thing, EVs can help manage the grid more effectively.

woodchips:
There was an interesting article on The Times website

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/confessions-of-an-electric-car-virgin-fq3lsz8tv

about driving a Nissan Leaf 1000 miles from London to Edinburgh and back. What was unusual was that it itemised the cost of recharging. Unfortunately the link seems to have lost this vital info, unless someone knows better.

But, he apparently spent £130 on electricity at charging points. This is a real sort of trip, not back home every evening. But £130 is serious, could do that in a petrol car for less, even my 3.9l Range Rover would only be twice that and carrying 400kg of load as well. Did 400 miles to Cardiff and back all in a 9 hour day, charging time? Twice in the garage for 10 minutes each time, petrol cost just under £100. So about 20mpg driving into a 50-60mph wind unladen, 400kg load back.

I don't commute, when an electric car would be fine, but make occasional long trips carrying a real load.

And does hydrogen work? I remember from years ago about storing hydrogen. The molecule is so small that it is near impossible to stop leaking, even with a metal to metal seal. Like hydraulics, over about 250 bar metal to metal won't seal, hence the O ring fittings, but an O ring won't seal hydrogen. Does anyone have any real knowledge of storing hydrogen they can share please?

For short journeys why not retrofit standard cars with lead acid batteries and one motor. Not trying to leave rubber on the road, just get to the local shops. Any number of cars to retrofit and lead isn't in short supply. And, lead can be recycled, unlike, according to my scrappy, lithium. Apparently putting a lithium battery in for recycling causes it to explode. I have seem 12 year old cars in the scrappy, why?, cam belt snapped so write off the whole thing. We can do a whole lot better than we are at the moment.


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