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The end of the line for the Arecibo radio telescope

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BravoV:

--- Quote from: coppercone2 on December 03, 2020, 07:17:13 am ---
--- Quote from: jogri on December 02, 2020, 02:02:24 pm ---
I wouldn't be surprised if such occurences become the norm in a few years, quite a lot of the stuff that was build in the 60s and 70s is already starting to fail... Here in germany, nearly 15% of all highway bridges are classified as "dilapidated". And that is certainly not going to get better anytime soon.

--- End quote ---

it no longer needs to move NATO around in a emergency. Friendly oil relations with russia are sure to prevent an invasion now (probobly part of the reason)

I kinda wonder what the hell will happen if there is WW3 in say 30 years when all the stuff is really falling apart. Whoever has more amphibious vehicles and mobile bridges wins? minor blitzkrieg repeat with whoever has more light vehicles? (if you don't know, nazi tanks only started getting beefy into the middle of the war). You used to be able to discourage that because you could put alot of nasty equipment into the right places at a quick notice. Not sure if they will be able to give the same kind of value to stuff made with the air mobility craze in the modern military (so we can send stuff to the desert). I think it all assumes that no one is going to figure out how to make something heavy scary again (new armor). There does seem to be a sizable amount of people that suggest tanks are not going to be super bypassed by modern equipment as much as we think, so politicians could be making the wrong call based on bad information when it comes to maintaining those sorts of things (from the sounds of it though, it will bring upon a gigantic argument).

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 :palm: :palm: :palm: I thought we're discussing radio astronomy antenna here ?  :-//

Pity you, so much paranoia and hatred, must be like hell living with that kinda thought.  :palm:

magic:
Offtopic being one thing, what's "hateful" about wandering how to fight WW3 on collapsing highways? :box:

coppercone2:
most old big projects that engineers find cool are basically falling apart because they are said to not benefit the military anymore and most people are super cheap and military applications usually do not allow you to boil a design down to shady levels, so now that the military is left out of things and deemed not important the projects start to suck and maintenance is not had. At least, its a small part of the reason why. In America like 30-40% of the bridges are fucked up (and I shudder to think what the number would be if German engineers that live in Germany and are culturally German would rate the % at given by the quality difference of 'entry grade' German and American products!). Really thrilled to drive to certain places where you can become jam in a cement sandwich because someone does not wanna paint some stuff and replace some bolts. I feel like the people that ignore this and still drive under it every day are some really driven psychopaths (super common for people to show solidarity to people neglecting infrastructure for some reason to show that you are brave and badass. I mention it in the car driving near a suspicious object and you might as well put a fucking barbell in the car and have someone do a 500 pound lift and start gloating about it).

of course its hateful, bridge collapses kill people, like the one in Italy recently. Possibly a similar principle to this telescope, ignore corrosion in load bearing members. Granted the ones in bridges are pretty insidious, I had a granite countertop crack because a metal bar potted in epoxy some how put rust pressure on the granite. You would really need to trust corrosion engineering best practices and forgo your own intuition (as you should) to see that one coming because based on 'common sense' it should not have happened, but if you read about what happens with epoxy and iron, its plainly shown as a regular occurance.

these projects are really interesting if you find 'damn he really squeezed everything he could have out of the companies preferred FEA method! look how he fooled everyone into not making a real life experiment first' interesting and or cool.


BTW I noticed in Poland when I was driving around too many things had a nice heavy coat of rust and dilapidated failing paint on it. All the rusty property fences looked wonderful. Old historical towns with a middle aged feel still had the same rusty moss covered roofs, its like if you plated the renaissance with cheap communism  :-[ . Beautiful victorianish house with a black mold, weathered paint and rust covered soviet grain house roof right near the town hall that looks like its from a fairy tale.

jmelson:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 03, 2020, 04:16:44 am ---While I am generally in favor of research spending, and do think there is still good science to be done at a facility like Arecibo was, and could be again, not all facilities need to continue.  While I am sure there are uses for them today, Van de Graff generators and cyclotrons are the doddering old grandparents of the high energy particle accelerators at CERN.

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Some Van de Graff accelerators are certainly old-school and pretty obsolete.  But, the HHIRF at Oak Ridge was a 50 MV folded Van de Graff, and very sophisticated and about twice the energy of anything else ever built.

Cyclotrons are also old school, but the superconducting cyclotrons at MSU NSCL were very advanced, and I think their larger one (K1200) was the highest energy of any single cycloton in the world.  They were still doing research with them until this month.

MSU is replacing their cyclotrons with a linear accelerator system, but it won't be fully online for a couple years.

Jon

coppercone2:
those last alot better because its usually in a sealed container of inert gas, at least the vandergaff in the MV range.

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