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| AndyBeez:
--- Quote from: free_electron on November 04, 2022, 03:21:39 pm ---everyone switch to CFLs. 5 years later : ban cfls, they contain mercury. try getting rid of them now. you can;t throw them in the trash , nor in the recycle bin. you have to give them with the dangerous goods. --- End quote --- Same here in sunny (?) England. A decade ago, our energy suppliers were giving these away for free to help save the planet from the evil that is, tungsten filaments. Even the European Union was in on the act, fronting these bulbs as eco-friendly. We all had them as they were not just energy saving, but planet saving too - and free. However, the free CFL bulbs were made in china shite that barely lasted twice as long as a filament bulb. Ever had any 'eco bulb' last the 100,000 hours claimed on the carton? Some, not even last 1,000 hours. My Philips bulbs faired better but, for the price of one, I could have bought a crate of tungsten bulbs. But being free, they were a throw away item! Then we (the people) discovered CFL bulbs were SO dangerous to the environment, our local town council provided special sealable bags to dispose of them in. Just one broken bulb was enough to close down our public library; their hazmat bulbs were replaced with florescent strip lights :palm: A traditional lightbulb contains mostly glass, tungsten, tin and a bit of leaded solder. A CFL contains almost as much e-waste as LED lightbulbs. And that's A LOT of good parts down in the dumpster. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: free_electron on November 04, 2022, 03:21:39 pm ---everyone switch to CFLs. 5 years later : ban cfls, they contain mercury. try getting rid of them now. you can;t throw them in the trash , nor in the recycle bin. you have to give them with the dangerous goods. --- End quote --- Its the same pattern with many things. CO2 is bad? Let's go for diesel cars. Oh no, NO2 is bad, lets punish all those diesel car owners who bought to be environmentally friendly. Who gives a damn this week about CO2? That's so last week..... and next week. Its just not this week. |
| tom66:
Diesel cars were always promoted as 'less bad', despite what VW wanted you to think. The government incentivised them with good tax rates because EVs weren't available at the time and now we've discovered that was probably a bad idea due to NOx, but it was the best of a set of not great options. Lightbulb emissions are almost entirely due to energy usage. An LED bulb repays its extra emissions within about 1,000 hours of operation. Sure some CFLs were shite but others last 10+ years, I've still got one in the loft which must be nearly 15 years old... I've been meaning to replace it but why bother when it still works? |
| AndyBeez:
The premise for banning tungsten and halogen bulbs is they use MORE energy and therefore produce MORE carbon dioxide. And as we all know, if there was LESS carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, our great leaders would have no reason to burn bullshit in a carbon neutral way at the COP Conference cash cow. To borrow a phrase from eco jedi Al Gore, the inconvenience truth about my carbon dioxide production is this: My lightbulbs produce zero carbon because, having nuclear, wind and solar generation in my region, there is no carbon produced. Other UK regions have abundant hydro-electric. Another truth, despite it's "dirty man of europe" reputation, the UK is spiralling towards a carbon negative future. So a big yes to energy efficient lighting. Go physics, go EEs! But a big no to foundless reasoning from a political class who greenwash their dirty hands with tax payers money. Every year. |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: AndyBeez on November 04, 2022, 05:53:31 pm ---To borrow a phrase from eco jedi Al Gore, the inconvenience truth about my carbon dioxide production is this: My lightbulbs produce zero carbon because, having nuclear, wind and solar generation in my region, there is no carbon produced. Other UK regions have abundant hydro-electric. Another truth, despite it's "dirty man of europe" reputation, the UK is spiralling towards a carbon negative future. --- End quote --- The UK grid has a carbon intensity of about 200gCO2/kWh, no matter who you buy your electricity from. So a 100W tungsten bulb produces about 20g per hour of operation, but a 10W LED bulb is around 2g. A pretty good way to look at the emissions profile of a lightbulb is to consider the maximum amount of energy that could have been expended to make it. If it retails for £5, say, then it probably cost £2.50 to make. If natural gas is about £50 per MWh (Asian spot price), then it couldn't have used more than 50kWh to produce or around 12.5kg of CO2. So your payback period is (12500g / 18g = 694 hours) which is pretty damn short. And that's an upper estimate based on normal energy consumption, it doesn't consider e-waste but that's very hard to price in. If you buy a LED bulb that lasts 15k hours it has definitely a positive impact on your emissions. COP isn't a cash cow. Countries are desperate to get out of their commitments because going net zero will be almost impossible without massive economic costs, but no one seems brave enough to admit this yet. We're probably a bit fucked when it comes to climate change, and we need to be rapidly thinking about how to mitigate the worst outcomes rather than pretending 1.5C is achievable now. |
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