Author Topic: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!  (Read 25194 times)

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Offline eti

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #250 on: November 13, 2022, 07:52:43 am »
Doesn’t matter how many “K” you have, it’s still the same inane, woke agenda drivel coming through.
You really need to leave your politics at the door. Your post explaining your situation bought you some leeway, but it’s not carte blanche to invoke politics, religion, etc. over and over again.

Not liking "woke" shite is pretty universal. Nice attempt to hide behind "No politics or religion"  - "woke" is universally dismissed and mocked, it's SO dumb, it's laughed at hard by any sane person. I am not talking politics - "woke" is a joke.

No, you are definitely "talking politics".
Many people think the term "woke" is stupid, but support various good ideas which are mislabelled as "woke" by those who oppose them.
It seems that "woke" has become one of the all-purpose swearwords which are used by a certain demographic to smear anything they don't agree with.

Okay. I’ll leave it then. Deflecting and misdirection aside, a certain person KNOWS they are deliberately provocative and that it’s targeted; that’s been done a few times and in a serial manner, not just an unintentional one off. I can be pretty grumpy, but I do hope I’m not so immature and dumb to DIRECTLY, clumsily fire ad-hom attacks to complete strangers. I do rant a bit and ain’t proud of that at all, but direct targeted personal snippiness and clumsy “insults” were hopefully left behind at childhood. I can’t speak for others.

I don’t expect to be defended when I am grumpy, unfair or unnecessarily cynical, and personal character attacks (no matter how silly) should ALL be handled with equal justice and fairness. If EQUAL and consistent rules aren’t seen to be uniformly adhered to, we see a rather lopsided, inconsistent “community”.

Were this real life, I can’t help but imagine there’d be a fair percentage of sudden, MIRACULOUS silence from those “keyboard warriors” who so confidently (insecurely) dish out cocky insults online. I think there’d be a great deal of improvement to society if the face to face nature was somehow able to be brought back more; the potential for a real world smack in the face tends to somewhat tone down the bravado 😂😂🤦‍♂️
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 08:05:55 am by eti »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #251 on: November 13, 2022, 08:16:19 am »
Not liking "woke" shite is pretty universal. Nice attempt to hide behind "No politics or religion"  - "woke" is universally dismissed and mocked, it's SO dumb, it's laughed at hard by any sane person. I am not talking politics - "woke" is a joke.

No, you are definitely "talking politics".
Many people think the term "woke" is stupid, but support various good ideas which are mislabelled as "woke" by those who oppose them.
It seems that "woke" has become one of the all-purpose swearwords which are used by a certain demographic to smear anything they don't agree with.

Okay. I’ll leave it then. Deflecting and misdirection aside, a certain person KNOWS they are deliberately provocative and that it’s targeted; that’s been done a few times and in a serial manner, not just an unintentional one off. I can be pretty grumpy, but I do hope I’m not so immature and dumb to DIRECTLY, clumsily fire ad-hom attacks to complete strangers. I do rant a bit and ain’t proud of that at all, but direct targeted personal snippiness and clumsy “insults” were hopefully left behind at childhood. I can’t speak for others.

I don’t expect to be defended when I am grumpy, unfair or unnecessarily cynical, and personal character attacks (no matter how silly) should ALL be handled with equal justice and fairness. If EQUAL and consistent rules aren’t seen to be uniformly adhered to, we see a rather lopsided, inconsistent “community”.

Were this real life, I can’t help but imagine there’d be a fair percentage of sudden, MIRACULOUS silence from those “keyboard warriors” who so confidently (insecurely) dish out cocky insults online. I think there’d be a great deal of improvement to society if the face to face nature was somehow able to be brought back more; the potential for a real world smack in the face tends to somewhat tone down the bravado 😂😂🤦‍♂️

What does any of that have to do with the issue that YOU keep bringing up religion and politics over and over, in obvious and deliberate violation of the rules?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 08:18:18 am by tooki »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #252 on: November 13, 2022, 08:19:51 am »
Not liking "woke" shite is pretty universal. Nice attempt to hide behind "No politics or religion"  - "woke" is universally dismissed and mocked, it's SO dumb, it's laughed at hard by any sane person. I am not talking politics - "woke" is a joke.

No, you are definitely "talking politics".
Many people think the term "woke" is stupid, but support various good ideas which are mislabelled as "woke" by those who oppose them.
It seems that "woke" has become one of the all-purpose swearwords which are used by a certain demographic to smear anything they don't agree with.
Precisely this.
 
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Offline mfro

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #253 on: November 13, 2022, 12:53:30 pm »
Back on topic: I don't get why an engineering-centric audience of basically technophile, smart people I'd expect here bite on such headline.

The EU doesn't ban 8K TVs. The EU just bans energy hungry TVs. And that's IMHO just a consequent thing to do. All EU countries (essentially more or less all - reasonable - states on earth) have signed the Paris Climate Agreement. Thus, they basically have agreed to reduce CO₂ emissions.

Consequently, if this agreement is supposed to be more than just an empty promise, states have to work on CO₂ reduction. At least as long as most of electrical energy on earth is generated from fossil fuels, it's just consequent to work on reducing (or - at least - avoidance of increase) electrical energy consumption. If you don't agree with that, you should probably rather argue with your government (that's the guys you were voting for) about taking part in the agreement instead of complaining about their attempts trying to comply with it.

From a pure engineering standpoint, IMHO the 8K energy issue should rather been seen as an engineering challenge than a consumer confinement?
The entertainment electronics industry needs to go through basically the same transformation than the automotive industry. Some may fail, some may try to cheat and get caught, others might just succeed (to my understanding, at least Samsung already indicated that it might be entirely possible to meet the EU regulations).




Beethoven wrote his first symphony in C.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #254 on: November 13, 2022, 01:07:30 pm »
Quote
The EU doesn't ban 8K TVs. The EU just bans energy hungry TVs.

I think the argument is that it might be an effective ban on hi-res screens. Kind of like not actually banning motorcars but if you make the fuel unavailable it's an effective ban. Wouldn't be the first time something has been shafted indirectly like that when the political fallout of hitting it directly would be too much to bear. (But please note I am not saying this is like that, just elaborating a viewpoint.)
 

Online MK14

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #255 on: November 13, 2022, 04:24:46 pm »
I managed to see my first (as far as I know/remember) 8k TV today, at a shop.  It was around 65", and a very high price, possibly £3,500 or some other high price.

The picture did look good (I'd prefer to change the screen to show various real life signal sources, rather than their 'special' video clip, which could be 'tuned', to make the TV look good, and not show up its defects).

As mentioned before in this thread, the rather large size 65" (they had 75" on show, I think, and 85" were mentioned, as existing, within the shop label(s), possibly for ordering direct to your home).
But, up close (near, nose touching screen, close), I could apparently see the individual pixels, quite easily,  But far back, it did look good.
But the massive OLED TVs (probably 4k), had an as good, or better display.  At least on the very limited indeed, video, they kept on playing back, at that shop.

In truth (not that I'm lying here), even the £499 bread and butter, LCD/LED, 55" TVs, seemed to have very good, nice/big pictures.

If I was buying a TV currently (I'm NOT), I suspect I'd look more closely at the QLED ones, as although they don't have as good a picture quality as the OLEDs, it is still pretty good.  But with much less chance of screen burn/retention issues/worries.

Although I agree we need to reduce our (worldwide) power consumption and hence CO2 footprint.  I DON'T like the idea of a big organization (e.g. the EU), choosing a lowish upper limit, on my behalf.  Forcing potentially nicer/better TV options, to be unavailable.

They sort of can't now, since UK/Brexit, but in practice, often can.  Either because the UK follows suit, with similar laws and regulations and/or the higher power things, sales/market drops too much (as they can't be sold in the EU), so companies, don't bother making special versions, just for the (relatively much smaller), UK.

In other words.  I'd prefer the powers to be, to ask us (users), NICELY (through advertising, public information campaigns, slight extra taxes/VAT on power hungry inefficient items and/or tax rate reduction on more power efficient items, and many other initiatives), if we can reduce our power consumption, have more solar power, increase electric vehicle and/or public transport use, etc.
Rather than making (in my opinion), pesky new laws.

Otherwise things could start getting silly.  E.g. (hypothetical, completely made up, new rules) Powerful gaming graphics cards could be outlawed, because the EU suddenly says all new PCs, must use less than 50 watts, at max power use.
Similarly, many core CPUs, for home use, could effectively be outlawed, if such regulations were put in.

So I hope this EU laws situation is NOT the start of a thin-wedge.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 04:29:54 pm by MK14 »
 

Online coppice

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #256 on: November 13, 2022, 04:32:45 pm »
The EU doesn't ban 8K TVs. The EU just bans energy hungry TVs. And that's IMHO just a consequent thing to do. All EU countries (essentially more or less all - reasonable - states on earth) have signed the Paris Climate Agreement. Thus, they basically have agreed to reduce CO₂ emissions.
The EU's energy ratings are a mess. They are supposed to keep only the most inefficient products out of the market. They are supposed to give the consumer a good guide to which of the available products are the most efficient. However, the ratings are all over the place. For example, they rate the efficiency of chest and vertical freezers differently. Currently pretty much all chest freezers have an F rating, so those ratings are pretty much useless for selecting a product. Vertical freezers are far less efficient than even the worst chest freezer, but their different rating scale makes them look much better.
 
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Offline Siwastaja

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #257 on: November 13, 2022, 05:06:24 pm »
In 2014, EU started limiting household vacuum cleaner power intake.  In 2017, EU limited household vacuum cleaners to 900 watts or less.  (The current requirements, PDF.)

What I am interested in, is how that affected the effectiveness of the vacuum cleaners.

Vacuum cleaners have always sucked equally: air flow and vacuum ratings are designed based on what people need, and these needs have not changed.

Vacuum cleaners were artificially inefficient, basically designed to be hybrid vacuum cleaners + electric heaters when marketing figured out Watts sell. This was somewhere in early 1990's. Power ratings quickly grew into 2000W range. All attempts to force suck-ratings, Air-watts or whatever failed - finally a complete ban to this crap was required.

Funny thing is, efficient vacuum cleaners have been available all the time, namely industrial or workshop vacuum cleaners. Their users have two specific needs:
1) better vacuuming than household vacuum cleaners,
2) ability to connect power tools into the slave socket (so that the vacuum cleaner detects current being drawn, and starts the vacuum automagically)

Because power tools regularly need up to 10A, and Schuko plugs are limited to 16A, this leaves mere 6A for the vacuum cleaner itself. So they only have 1200W, and they need to suck better than those 2000W home cleaners. Motor efficiency needs to be doubled.

... which is utterly trivial, because human kind can easily design 95% efficient electric motors. If the point of comparison is a 30% efficient broken-by-design piece of shit designed by marketing and not engineering department, it is trivial to make it say 60% efficient again by letting engineers back in, and it's still cheap-as-fuck to manufacture. Probably even cheaper than the inefficient version thanks to easier thermals!

So for crappy vacuum cleaners, good riddance. I don't say this too often, at least not unironically, but thanks EU for this.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #258 on: November 13, 2022, 05:37:47 pm »
Quote
But the massive OLED TVs (probably 4k), had an as good, or better display.

A thought just struck: it may be an 8K TV but that doesn't necessarily mean it is 8K resolution. If you were to use a 4K TV as a monitor it wouldn't appear as good as an actual 4K monitor because of the way the pixels do RGB, or, rather, don't do it:

For example, the LG UN7000 uses an IPS panel with an uncommon RGBW subpixel structure where there are four subpixel layouts in a row: RGB, GBW, BWR, and WRB, so only one of every four pixels has full color (RGB). This results in a less accurate image with native 4k content and causes some upscaling artifacts; however, some people might not notice it. The RGBW subpixel structure can also affect text clarity when using the TV as a PC monitor ...
 
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Online coppice

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #259 on: November 13, 2022, 05:48:06 pm »
Quote
But the massive OLED TVs (probably 4k), had an as good, or better display.

A thought just struck: it may be an 8K TV but that doesn't necessarily mean it is 8K resolution. If you were to use a 4K TV as a monitor it wouldn't appear as good as an actual 4K monitor because of the way the pixels do RGB, or, rather, don't do it:

For example, the LG UN7000 uses an IPS panel with an uncommon RGBW subpixel structure where there are four subpixel layouts in a row: RGB, GBW, BWR, and WRB, so only one of every four pixels has full color (RGB). This results in a less accurate image with native 4k content and causes some upscaling artifacts; however, some people might not notice it. The RGBW subpixel structure can also affect text clarity when using the TV as a PC monitor ...
Those RGBW panels are not common. Most TVs have panels that work as well as a monitor as any custom monitor, as long as you configure them correctly. Unfortunately, a LOT of TVs are poorly documented, and it can take a while to configure them so they accept 4:4:4 video, and get the full resolution of the panel. You might just need to select a "PC" or "game" mode for the HDMI port you are using, but you may also need to have the extract correct text in the input label field for that port. Its easy to see, on coloured text, when you've got it right.
 
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Offline mfro

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #260 on: November 13, 2022, 06:52:56 pm »
... However, the ratings are all over the place. For example, they rate the efficiency of chest and vertical freezers differently. Currently pretty much all chest freezers have an F rating, so those ratings are pretty much useless for selecting a product. Vertical freezers are far less efficient than even the worst chest freezer, but their different rating scale makes them look much better.

Not true. A quick Google shows plenty of devices available with C or better rating.
Also, there is no difference in any EU efficiency criteria between chest  and vertical.
There is a difference between free standing and built-in devices (with the latter receiving a bonus because of less space available for insulation).


Beethoven wrote his first symphony in C.
 

Online coppice

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #261 on: November 13, 2022, 07:07:40 pm »
... However, the ratings are all over the place. For example, they rate the efficiency of chest and vertical freezers differently. Currently pretty much all chest freezers have an F rating, so those ratings are pretty much useless for selecting a product. Vertical freezers are far less efficient than even the worst chest freezer, but their different rating scale makes them look much better.

Not true. A quick Google shows plenty of devices available with C or better rating.
Also, there is no difference in any EU efficiency criteria between chest  and vertical.
There is a difference between free standing and built-in devices (with the latter receiving a bonus because of less space available for insulation).
Interesting. I went through the web sites of some of the UKs big electrical retailers recently, looking at freezers. Most were like https://ao.com/l/chest_freezers/1/32-33/ A long like of F rated products, although page 2 of that list does ave two E rated models I missed before. Other retailers, like https://markselectrical.co.uk/chest-freezers.html, are similar.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #262 on: November 13, 2022, 09:28:02 pm »
... However, the ratings are all over the place. For example, they rate the efficiency of chest and vertical freezers differently. Currently pretty much all chest freezers have an F rating, so those ratings are pretty much useless for selecting a product. Vertical freezers are far less efficient than even the worst chest freezer, but their different rating scale makes them look much better.

Not true. A quick Google shows plenty of devices available with C or better rating.
Also, there is no difference in any EU efficiency criteria between chest  and vertical.
There is a difference between free standing and built-in devices (with the latter receiving a bonus because of less space available for insulation).

Indeed.  The EU just changed energy ratings recently, not sure how long ago.  We bought a new fridge which is 'D' rated, about 240kWh/year. Our old one is A+ rated at 255kWh per year, about 5 years old (incidentally - never buy Hisense refigeration).  Once all fridges are at 'A+' it doesn't give much room for comparison.  Compressing ratings back to 'D' and so on gives more room for comparison. 

Also, in the UK, they are post-Brexit harmonised ratings, so blame the UK gov't for synchronising it with the EU, not the EU for coming up with it ... hang on, wasn't that supposed to be one of those Brexit bonuses?  :-DD
 
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