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The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!

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MK14:
I managed to see my first (as far as I know/remember) 8k TV today, at a shop.  It was around 65", and a very high price, possibly £3,500 or some other high price.

The picture did look good (I'd prefer to change the screen to show various real life signal sources, rather than their 'special' video clip, which could be 'tuned', to make the TV look good, and not show up its defects).

As mentioned before in this thread, the rather large size 65" (they had 75" on show, I think, and 85" were mentioned, as existing, within the shop label(s), possibly for ordering direct to your home).
But, up close (near, nose touching screen, close), I could apparently see the individual pixels, quite easily,  But far back, it did look good.
But the massive OLED TVs (probably 4k), had an as good, or better display.  At least on the very limited indeed, video, they kept on playing back, at that shop.

In truth (not that I'm lying here), even the £499 bread and butter, LCD/LED, 55" TVs, seemed to have very good, nice/big pictures.

If I was buying a TV currently (I'm NOT), I suspect I'd look more closely at the QLED ones, as although they don't have as good a picture quality as the OLEDs, it is still pretty good.  But with much less chance of screen burn/retention issues/worries.

Although I agree we need to reduce our (worldwide) power consumption and hence CO2 footprint.  I DON'T like the idea of a big organization (e.g. the EU), choosing a lowish upper limit, on my behalf.  Forcing potentially nicer/better TV options, to be unavailable.

They sort of can't now, since UK/Brexit, but in practice, often can.  Either because the UK follows suit, with similar laws and regulations and/or the higher power things, sales/market drops too much (as they can't be sold in the EU), so companies, don't bother making special versions, just for the (relatively much smaller), UK.

In other words.  I'd prefer the powers to be, to ask us (users), NICELY (through advertising, public information campaigns, slight extra taxes/VAT on power hungry inefficient items and/or tax rate reduction on more power efficient items, and many other initiatives), if we can reduce our power consumption, have more solar power, increase electric vehicle and/or public transport use, etc.
Rather than making (in my opinion), pesky new laws.

Otherwise things could start getting silly.  E.g. (hypothetical, completely made up, new rules) Powerful gaming graphics cards could be outlawed, because the EU suddenly says all new PCs, must use less than 50 watts, at max power use.
Similarly, many core CPUs, for home use, could effectively be outlawed, if such regulations were put in.

So I hope this EU laws situation is NOT the start of a thin-wedge.

coppice:

--- Quote from: mfro on November 13, 2022, 12:53:30 pm ---The EU doesn't ban 8K TVs. The EU just bans energy hungry TVs. And that's IMHO just a consequent thing to do. All EU countries (essentially more or less all - reasonable - states on earth) have signed the Paris Climate Agreement. Thus, they basically have agreed to reduce CO₂ emissions.

--- End quote ---
The EU's energy ratings are a mess. They are supposed to keep only the most inefficient products out of the market. They are supposed to give the consumer a good guide to which of the available products are the most efficient. However, the ratings are all over the place. For example, they rate the efficiency of chest and vertical freezers differently. Currently pretty much all chest freezers have an F rating, so those ratings are pretty much useless for selecting a product. Vertical freezers are far less efficient than even the worst chest freezer, but their different rating scale makes them look much better.

Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 02, 2022, 04:54:59 pm ---In 2014, EU started limiting household vacuum cleaner power intake.  In 2017, EU limited household vacuum cleaners to 900 watts or less.  (The current requirements, PDF.)

What I am interested in, is how that affected the effectiveness of the vacuum cleaners.

--- End quote ---

Vacuum cleaners have always sucked equally: air flow and vacuum ratings are designed based on what people need, and these needs have not changed.

Vacuum cleaners were artificially inefficient, basically designed to be hybrid vacuum cleaners + electric heaters when marketing figured out Watts sell. This was somewhere in early 1990's. Power ratings quickly grew into 2000W range. All attempts to force suck-ratings, Air-watts or whatever failed - finally a complete ban to this crap was required.

Funny thing is, efficient vacuum cleaners have been available all the time, namely industrial or workshop vacuum cleaners. Their users have two specific needs:
1) better vacuuming than household vacuum cleaners,
2) ability to connect power tools into the slave socket (so that the vacuum cleaner detects current being drawn, and starts the vacuum automagically)

Because power tools regularly need up to 10A, and Schuko plugs are limited to 16A, this leaves mere 6A for the vacuum cleaner itself. So they only have 1200W, and they need to suck better than those 2000W home cleaners. Motor efficiency needs to be doubled.

... which is utterly trivial, because human kind can easily design 95% efficient electric motors. If the point of comparison is a 30% efficient broken-by-design piece of shit designed by marketing and not engineering department, it is trivial to make it say 60% efficient again by letting engineers back in, and it's still cheap-as-fuck to manufacture. Probably even cheaper than the inefficient version thanks to easier thermals!

So for crappy vacuum cleaners, good riddance. I don't say this too often, at least not unironically, but thanks EU for this.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---But the massive OLED TVs (probably 4k), had an as good, or better display.
--- End quote ---

A thought just struck: it may be an 8K TV but that doesn't necessarily mean it is 8K resolution. If you were to use a 4K TV as a monitor it wouldn't appear as good as an actual 4K monitor because of the way the pixels do RGB, or, rather, don't do it:


--- Quote from: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/pixels ---For example, the LG UN7000 uses an IPS panel with an uncommon RGBW subpixel structure where there are four subpixel layouts in a row: RGB, GBW, BWR, and WRB, so only one of every four pixels has full color (RGB). This results in a less accurate image with native 4k content and causes some upscaling artifacts; however, some people might not notice it. The RGBW subpixel structure can also affect text clarity when using the TV as a PC monitor ...
--- End quote ---

coppice:

--- Quote from: PlainName on November 13, 2022, 05:37:47 pm ---
--- Quote ---But the massive OLED TVs (probably 4k), had an as good, or better display.
--- End quote ---

A thought just struck: it may be an 8K TV but that doesn't necessarily mean it is 8K resolution. If you were to use a 4K TV as a monitor it wouldn't appear as good as an actual 4K monitor because of the way the pixels do RGB, or, rather, don't do it:


--- Quote from: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/pixels ---For example, the LG UN7000 uses an IPS panel with an uncommon RGBW subpixel structure where there are four subpixel layouts in a row: RGB, GBW, BWR, and WRB, so only one of every four pixels has full color (RGB). This results in a less accurate image with native 4k content and causes some upscaling artifacts; however, some people might not notice it. The RGBW subpixel structure can also affect text clarity when using the TV as a PC monitor ...
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---
Those RGBW panels are not common. Most TVs have panels that work as well as a monitor as any custom monitor, as long as you configure them correctly. Unfortunately, a LOT of TVs are poorly documented, and it can take a while to configure them so they accept 4:4:4 video, and get the full resolution of the panel. You might just need to select a "PC" or "game" mode for the HDMI port you are using, but you may also need to have the extract correct text in the input label field for that port. Its easy to see, on coloured text, when you've got it right.

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