Author Topic: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!  (Read 25266 times)

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Online Bud

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2022, 04:54:46 pm »
Do not worry, propaganda will run at full brightness automatically  >:D
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Online Nominal Animal

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2022, 04:54:59 pm »
This is actually related, albeit tangentially:

In 2014, EU started limiting household vacuum cleaner power intake.  In 2017, EU limited household vacuum cleaners to 900 watts or less.  (The current requirements, PDF.)

What I am interested in, is how that affected the effectiveness of the vacuum cleaners.  According to some friends who have both "old" (>1500W) and "new" (<900W), there isn't really a noticeable difference in their pickup power.  Others may disagree; but it is important to notice that anecdotal evidence of one pair of devices is not really reliable: variance across makes and models is too large.

I personally also use my displays (and when I had one, my TV) at relatively low intensities.  (For example, right now, my laptop display is at 15% brightness; in natural light, I may bump it up to 25% or so.)  So, I am not sure how the energy limit will affect the largest TV's.  If it causes the brightness/intensity to scale down, I'm all for it, because I just don't need the upper half of the brightness scale on my devices at all.  Contrast and sharpness is different, though; I like those.  Often, however, the darker shades are not visible at all until you push the brightness to uncomfortable levels.  Perhaps this might change?
(Yes, I'm being overly optimistic, I know.  The real effect will likely be manufacturers doing tricks that lets them pass the limits, but keep doing whatever they've been doing before, because that's the path of least effort.)

Any related observations?
 

Offline tom66

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2022, 05:08:04 pm »
I have a post-limited vacuum - 900W Miele Classic C2.  No complaints at all about performance.  I usually end up lowering the power when on anything other than hard floors as it tends to tug on carpets and rugs if I'm not careful.
 

Offline unknownparticleTopic starter

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2022, 05:18:03 pm »
Mine is a VAX cordless with a 20V Li Ion 72 W/hr battery, it's mainly ok but has a tendency to block easily, so the dust canister has to be emptied at every use to prevent that. I chose this because I HATE power cords on vacuum cleaners!  I do still have my old 1200 watt Sebo though, just in case I get caught out by a flat battery on the Vax!
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Offline unknownparticleTopic starter

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2022, 05:19:18 pm »
Do not worry, propaganda will run at full brightness automatically  >:D

Nice one :clap:
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Offline hans

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2022, 05:20:16 pm »
Meh.. Sensationalist title of article. The EU has motives to do this that are of interest to the general public. Television sets are used in many many households for many hours a day. Some people even leave them on the dumbest channels/programs during daytime to combat loneliness. Great for them. But if it draws 500W continuously because they bought a high-end TV "because I watch a lot of cable" (which may only offer you 720p or 1080p content), then that kind of stupidity cannot be argued with. People will do people things.

What an EU can do, is force manufacturers to make more efficient sets. Virtually all tech manufacturers are publically traded companies, which focus on capitalism and being that 1pt ahead of competition in some arbitrary benchmark. 8K is better than 4K, even though you would need to set <1m from the set with 20/20 vision to see any difference. 100Hz is better than 60Hz, even though that 100Hz is only with image interpolation techniques and if you turn it off, the set can only do 50Hz (which is worse), etc. It's of best interest to the public to keep manufacturers honest. It's to the best interest of the public to keep our country wide energy bill low.

There is no strict ban on the TV resolution or features. Only that the TV must offer some features at a decent performance/power e.g. efficiency ratio. We do this with cars, with houses, with whitegoods, so why not with electronics? Enforcement of regulations is to varying degrees - from a ban, to a tax increase, to an indication label that could suggest it costs a lot of money to run. That last indicator has been around for years, but if that's not enough, perhaps the other 2 measures are necessary.

Likewise, if we were to rephrase this headline to CPUs and GPUs, would be as much beraged? I think that was the generally received sentiment of last gen CPU/GPU hardware so far, and of Intel's last few generations in the past as well. In my opinion it's also a tech market that's gone crazy. Sure fierce competition is good for pricing, but other "side effects" may suffer in the end. It's not an honest way of making progress.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 05:23:37 pm by hans »
 
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Offline unknownparticleTopic starter

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2022, 05:20:40 pm »
Btw, voter sheeple should be punished to watch the propaganda machine (TV) on a 2x16 character display!

 :-DD
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Offline nctnico

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2022, 05:20:51 pm »
This is actually related, albeit tangentially:

In 2014, EU started limiting household vacuum cleaner power intake.  In 2017, EU limited household vacuum cleaners to 900 watts or less.  (The current requirements, PDF.)

What I am interested in, is how that affected the effectiveness of the vacuum cleaners.
I don't notice any difference in performance. Only that the noise is slightly different (probably due to a more efficient turbine) and the inner design has changed so the bag doesn't obstruct the airflow so much. The latter makes the newer vacuum cleaner I bought work better compared to the 25 year old one (which I modified to also have the improved, unobstructed airflow; yes, same brands). So yes, I think the limit in energy consumption has triggered very positive changes in the design of vacuum cleaners.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2022, 05:29:02 pm »
I don't "get" 8K

Never seen one, so can't say about 8k.  However, I remember similar remarks from 4k, but when I've tested a 32 inch 4k monitor at the office, and everybody was amazed by the clarity and the details never seen before on the other less resolution monitors.  I guess it's similar for 8k monitors.

Can't say about 8k TV, didn't watch TV since many decades ago.  I've read TV brainwashes people and makes one dumb.  Stay away from TV.  Better live your own life instead of a fake TV life.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 05:30:33 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2022, 05:44:36 pm »
Quote
In 2014, EU started limiting household vacuum cleaner power intake.  In 2017, EU limited household vacuum cleaners to 900 watts or less.
and suprise suprise you can stll get a vacuum over 900w thanks to little loopholes,like not calling it a domestic,just like you can buy 100w incandescent lamps,as long as there rough service
Quote
When some moron limits your tea kettle to 500 watts?
The eu did think about it,but got scared it would swing the brexit vote towards leave ,now we've buggered off they might start thinking about it again
 

Offline magic

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2022, 05:48:12 pm »
April fools was half year ago :P

No politicians will ever ban TV of any sort.
What would they do without it?
 

Online John B

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2022, 05:50:38 pm »
You just know that the people who come up with these ideas have a home theatre room in their 7 bedroom luxury home.
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2022, 05:56:25 pm »
and suprise suprise you can stll get a vacuum over 900w thanks to little loopholes,like not calling it a domestic,just like you can buy 100w incandescent lamps,as long as there rough service

And, of course, the domestic low-power version will be in service an average of 10 minutes per week and the commercial one might be used for 2-3 hours a day. 
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Online wraper

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2022, 06:02:32 pm »
What an EU can do, is force manufacturers to make more efficient sets. Virtually all tech manufacturers are publically traded companies, which focus on capitalism and being that 1pt ahead of competition in some arbitrary benchmark. 8K is better than 4K, even though you would need to set <1m from the set with 20/20 vision to see any difference. 100Hz is better than 60Hz, even though that 100Hz is only with image interpolation techniques and if you turn it off, the set can only do 50Hz (which is worse), etc. It's of best interest to the public to keep manufacturers honest. It's to the best interest of the public to keep our country wide energy bill low.

There is no strict ban on the TV resolution or features. Only that the TV must offer some features at a decent performance/power e.g. efficiency ratio. We do this with cars, with houses, with whitegoods, so why not with electronics? Enforcement of regulations is to varying degrees - from a ban, to a tax increase, to an indication label that could suggest it costs a lot of money to run. That last indicator has been around for years, but if that's not enough, perhaps the other 2 measures are necessary.
So you surely did not read the article. None of current 8K TV will pass that standard and making them pass will make them too dim.
 

Offline unknownparticleTopic starter

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2022, 06:37:25 pm »
I don't "get" 8K

Never seen one, so can't say about 8k.  However, I remember similar remarks from 4k, but when I've tested a 32 inch 4k monitor at the office, and everybody was amazed by the clarity and the details never seen before on the other less resolution monitors.  I guess it's similar for 8k monitors.

Can't say about 8k TV, didn't watch TV since many decades ago.  I've read TV brainwashes people and makes one dumb.  Stay away from TV.  Better live your own life instead of a fake TV life.

There is quite a noticeable improvement on 4K material over full HD on my humble Samsung 42".  Thats watching on broadcast TV not youtube, I can select 4K YT stuff but only in a few second clips as my BB connection speed won't fully support it, due to the pathetic UK BB infrastructure. 
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Online Monkeh

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2022, 06:41:18 pm »
and suprise suprise you can stll get a vacuum over 900w thanks to little loopholes,like not calling it a domestic,just like you can buy 100w incandescent lamps,as long as there rough service

And, of course, the domestic low-power version will be in service an average of 10 minutes per week and the commercial one might be used for 2-3 hours a day.

But for every commercial one there will be 500 domestic ones.
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2022, 06:54:13 pm »
I don't get why the EU needs to regulate this. It's infantilizing the customer.

If you buy a TV with a high energy consumption (nowadays 'helpfully' labeled with a energy usage label but you could just look at the specs), you're accepting that it'll use more power.

It's a general trend of the EU to presume that the general public knows nothing [and shouldn't know anything].
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2022, 07:05:33 pm »
I don't get why the EU needs to regulate this. It's infantilizing the customer.
Well, most customers are quite infantile when buying anything electronic.  I see this more like an action directed at manufacturers, similar to what happened with vacuum cleaners.  (Ash vacuums and wet-or-dry vacuums are exempt, even for household use; so perhaps the TV regulation needs to also consider use cases or surface area somehow?  :-//)

It's a general trend of the EU to presume that the general public knows nothing [and shouldn't know anything].
That I do agree with.  I think it is possible they can accidentally made an overall beneficial regulation, like seems to have occurred with vacuum cleaners (again, as far as I know it seems the power intake has gone down on domestic devices without any significant impact on efficacy, making it overall a good thing), and am just wondering if this could be a similar situation.  I am not convinced either way, just pondering whether it could be the case here.

Of course, I don't have even a 4K display, much less a 8K one, so I'm personally not affected.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2022, 07:32:33 pm »
I don't get why the EU needs to regulate this. It's infantilizing the customer.
Well, most customers are quite infantile when buying anything electronic.  I see this more like an action directed at manufacturers, similar to what happened with vacuum cleaners.  (Ash vacuums and wet-or-dry vacuums are exempt, even for household use; so perhaps the TV regulation needs to also consider use cases or surface area somehow?  :-//)
If you look at the past you'll see that government regulation (which ultimately is what we vote for!) has resulted in better products for the consumer. Companies have the moral compass of a 4 year old and only think short term to maximise shareholder profit. Just create a hype and have the stupid crowd buy their products. Without regulation, we end up with products that do us -consumers- no good at all. So all in all it is the other way around. We all vote for more regulation to make our lives better. There is nothing infantile about it; power to the people!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 07:34:50 pm by nctnico »
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Offline DC1MC

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2022, 07:48:42 pm »
You are the carbon footprint that they want to reduce.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 07:57:17 pm by DC1MC »
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2022, 07:56:43 pm »
So, these assholes will ban 8k TVs, but not ban my pair of Pass Labs mono block amps:
https://www.passlabs.com/products/xa200-8/#tech_spec

With a total idle power draw of 1520 watts, if I had the money, I would ship a bunch of them for free to screw the difference of the number of 8K TV which would have been sold and in use.

What are you supposed to do if you want an LED wall TV with a >2000 nits output to fight the daylight sun?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 08:06:37 pm by BrianHG »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2022, 07:58:23 pm »
   I remember a time in the late 1970s in the US when all of the US auto makers told the USG that it was impossible to meet the USG's proposed auto emissions standards and that no one had the technology necessary to do so. The USG replied "Fine but when one of you does come up with the technology, the rest of you will be required to lease it from them and pay royalties."  Within a few years ALL of the US auto makers had developed their own technology and were using it!  None of them ever had to lease it from a different company.

They were garbage too. Have you looked at the horsepower ratings for cars before and after that requirement? There were cars with big honking V8 engines that only developed 120 HP. Until modern EFI came along they didn't have the tech to meet the requirements while selling cars that weren't crap.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2022, 08:06:31 pm »
and suprise suprise you can stll get a vacuum over 900w thanks to little loopholes,like not calling it a domestic,just like you can buy 100w incandescent lamps,as long as there rough service

And, of course, the domestic low-power version will be in service an average of 10 minutes per week and the commercial one might be used for 2-3 hours a day.

That's the first thought I had too. I don't really care if vacuums are limited in consumption, but I also don't care how much power they use. 95% of my vacuuming is done by the Roomba and I get out the upright for a proper deep cleaning maybe once a month for 10-15 minutes. It could consume 30kW and I would never even notice on my electric bill.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2022, 08:10:47 pm »
That's a clickbait, because if I got it wright the ban is on energy consumption level, not on TV resolution.  :--
That's how brexiteers operate.
Here on the continent, we're watching in awe how 350 M£ are pouring into the NHS every week. Oh, wait...

But seriously: an American or German or Japanese would see this as an incentive to develop new more efficient dsiplay technology. First on the market makes real money.
Here: moan!
 
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Online BrianHG

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2022, 08:12:02 pm »
What happens when you want to make a TV with built in true realtime AI up-scaling hardware using 4x Nividia 4090's which eats around 2kw just for the image processing?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 08:42:34 pm by BrianHG »
 


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