Author Topic: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!  (Read 25250 times)

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Online PlainName

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2022, 08:24:26 pm »
Quote
we're watching in awe how 350 M£ are pouring into the NHS every week

I am fairly sure Boris didn't promise to do that. What he said was that we would save £350m/wk (through not paying something) and wouldn't that be better spent on the NHS. Of course, it was carefully worded and led people to assume he was saying something else (that they would spend it on the NHS), but I never saw that expressly said.
 

Online RJSV

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2022, 09:52:17 pm »
   So, let me get this right: (SLMGTR is my new acronym, lol);
   "Freedom of choice...is just a joke; YOU PEOPLE just responding to dumb commercials, telling you what to think/buy"...
That's a purely cynical take on a world filled with good people, trying to parse out the situation.  Seeming like we don't get freedom; it's too harmful to others (climate), and so...Cmnder 'Smith' will instruct you on proper personal spending and what's even available.

   Thinking: In EU, if vehicle is pulled over by police patrol, is that 75 inch TV, (illegal) going to be seized, as illegitimate goods ? Citation for driver (possession)?
   Some (bad) climate effects can happen, but the current crowd /(MOB ?) has it so twisted and weaponized...What's a person on the sidelines to do ?

Try saying: " Climate change? I think that unlikely."
(Sorry, I use sarcasm when needed).
 

Online Someone

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2022, 10:08:28 pm »
What happens when you want to make a TV with built in true realtime AI up-scaling hardware using 4x Nividia 4090's which eats around 2kw just for the image processing?
Build it anyway? Sell some to the video-phile market as technology demonstrators. What you won't be able to do is sell it as a mass market product.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2022, 10:23:36 pm »
 
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Offline tom66

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2022, 10:25:29 pm »
There is quite a noticeable improvement on 4K material over full HD on my humble Samsung 42".  Thats watching on broadcast TV not youtube, I can select 4K YT stuff but only in a few second clips as my BB connection speed won't fully support it, due to the pathetic UK BB infrastructure.

4K is *just about* at the threshold where a 50" or so screen will look better at typical viewing distance; very dependent on your eyesight (you'd need 20/20 vision after any correction to appreciate that.)  I'd be surprised if you see anything from broadcast TV, unless you mean satellite, do Sky offer 4K yet? I haven't had it for like 10 years...

I just don't see any point at all in 8K.  You'd need a 100" screen to appreciate that, and even an American is going to think that's a bit ridiculous.  Cinemas, sure?  Maybe even a home cinema projector playing an 8K bluray.  But we don't even have the transmission bandwidth on Freeview for anything more than 1080i60, and as you've pointed out, the average broadband connection is going to choke on 4K for some time (I'm feeling mighty fortunate with our 500Mbit/s BT FTTP, but I'm clearly the outlier!)
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2022, 10:26:28 pm »
I worked in video engineering and production for over thirty years… apart from the shift to digital,
I suspect that most viewers couldn’t tell the difference from ‘good’ 625/50 and the new high-def formats with well lit content in a well prepared viewing environment.

It’s all about the ‘racing stripes’ and ‘GT badge’ on the fuel filler cap.

Large screens are great, but did you notice the quality of scriptwriting is inversely proportional to the screen size ?

Don’t even mention HDR and compression artefacts !
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2022, 10:30:26 pm »
I worked in video engineering and production for over thirty years… apart from the shift to digital,
I suspect that most viewers couldn’t tell the difference from ‘good’ 625/50 and the new high-def formats with well lit content in a well prepared viewing environment.

It’s all about the ‘racing stripes’ and ‘GT badge’ on the fuel filler cap.

Large screens are great, but did you notice the quality of scriptwriting is inversely proportional to the screen size ?

Don’t even mention HDR and compression artefacts !

For about 10 years after the switch to HD I saw countless TVs connected via composite video, people had no idea that despite having a HD TV, the input they were using was only capable of SD, and not even very good SD at that. The only reason HD caught on in the first place is that it coincided with the development of reasonably priced large flat panel displays. Housewives everywhere rejoiced at the fact that they no longer needed an enormous heav box in their livingroom. Since the dawn of TV, the best selling sets by far have always been the cheapest junk on the shelves at Kmart and the like. Most people simply don't notice and or don't care about picture quality.
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2022, 10:38:44 pm »
So, let me get this right: (SLMGTR is my new acronym, lol);
   "Freedom of choice...is just a joke; YOU PEOPLE just responding to dumb commercials, telling you what to think/buy"
Not really.  Think of it from this angle: When did you see the (average/expected/maximum) power use of a TV mentioned in an advertisement?  Even in an online advert, which usually contain all kinds of tech specs?  Hell, even standby power, which customers are definitely interested in and pretty knowable nowadays, are often omitted!

Thinking: In EU, if vehicle is pulled over by police patrol, is that 75 inch TV, (illegal) going to be seized, as illegitimate goods ? Citation for driver (possession)?
Nah, that didn't happen with vacuum cleaners either.  Like I said, ash and wet-and-dry vacuums were explicitly set to be outside.  Like then, the rules do not affect ownership –– you can still use a 1.5kW vacuum at home if you have one ––, only commercial sales to private customers.

Me, I do not know if this is good or bad, and can't be arsed to delve into it to find out because I don't even have a 4K display yet; just reading what others think about it, in case I want to have an opinion on this someday.
 
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Online Monkeh

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2022, 10:42:53 pm »
"Freedom of choice...is just a joke; YOU PEOPLE just responding to dumb commercials, telling you what to think/buy"...
That's a purely cynical take on a world filled with good people, trying to parse out the situation.  Seeming like we don't get freedom; it's too harmful to others (climate), and so...Cmnder 'Smith' will instruct you on proper personal spending and what's even available.

Taking it to ridiculous extremes, what a shocker.

This has nothing to do with personal choice, frankly. You want an 8K TV which uses 500W to do nothing all day? Go ahead and make one.
 

Offline unknownparticleTopic starter

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2022, 10:55:51 pm »
There is quite a noticeable improvement on 4K material over full HD on my humble Samsung 42".  Thats watching on broadcast TV not youtube, I can select 4K YT stuff but only in a few second clips as my BB connection speed won't fully support it, due to the pathetic UK BB infrastructure.

4K is *just about* at the threshold where a 50" or so screen will look better at typical viewing distance; very dependent on your eyesight (you'd need 20/20 vision after any correction to appreciate that.)  I'd be surprised if you see anything from broadcast TV, unless you mean satellite, do Sky offer 4K yet? I haven't had it for like 10 years...

I just don't see any point at all in 8K.  You'd need a 100" screen to appreciate that, and even an American is going to think that's a bit ridiculous.  Cinemas, sure?  Maybe even a home cinema projector playing an 8K bluray.  But we don't even have the transmission bandwidth on Freeview for anything more than 1080i60, and as you've pointed out, the average broadband connection is going to choke on 4K for some time (I'm feeling mighty fortunate with our 500Mbit/s BT FTTP, but I'm clearly the outlier!)

I would have agreed with you until I actually saw it for myself, and my vision is far from 20/20.  There are some dedicated 4K TV channels showing niche programs and the quality difference is obvious. Many YT creators are now recording in 4K, doesn't help me because as I said above, my connection won't support 4K, it won't even start playing it, 1440p is about it and even then it coughs and splutters! I'm fine with even 720p though, and 1080p plays fine, it's the program material that I'm most concerned with anyway. 
DC coupling is the devils work!!
 

Online RJSV

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2022, 12:10:48 am »
With all due respect, and sincere thanks for any criticism, I don't mind; but what, in the world, is extremism, when I see statements like:
   "Build it yourself, if you want it ". (power hungry video and theater systems).
  I could say, tongue-in-cheek,;
   "You want electric car ? Build it yourself..."
  I might prefer an approach that encourages moderating energy use, in a video or home theater.
Plus, why not put energy ratings on package info, to encourage those who wish to shop that way.
   Additional, maybe you've noticed; Folks living under the brunt of FORCE usually only comply visibly, but may harbor grudges, against a beuracracy (especially when there is incompetence and hipocracy rampant.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2022, 12:20:12 am »
Plus, why not put energy ratings on package info, to encourage those who wish to shop that way.
In the EU that is already the case for several decades.

The same is happening for food as well so manufacturers can no longer hide unhealthy food.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline eti

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2022, 01:09:53 am »
Please be mindful that there is a global shortage of exclamation marks. I have refrained from frivolous, unnecessary use here.  ;)
 
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Offline vad

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2022, 01:19:15 am »
The same is happening for food as well so manufacturers can no longer hide unhealthy food.
Like bananas of wrong curvature?
 
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Online Nominal Animal

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2022, 02:40:38 am »
The same is happening for food as well so manufacturers can no longer hide unhealthy food.
Like bananas of wrong curvature?
No, more like not hiding sugars under the general carbohydrates term.  (Sugars are carbohydrates, but their intake should be monitored separately from other carbohydrates.  Refined sugar is basically poison.  Hell, you can even use it as a disinfectant on open wounds!)
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2022, 02:50:20 am »
This has nothing to do with personal choice, frankly. You want an 8K TV which uses 500W to do nothing all day? Go ahead and make one.

So you'd ban the finished product but support selling them as kits?
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2022, 03:09:07 am »
This has nothing to do with personal choice, frankly. You want an 8K TV which uses 500W to do nothing all day? Go ahead and make one.

So you'd ban the finished product but support selling them as kits?

I won't get too much into this "debate" which is yet another great example of mommy EU banning stuff left and right for your own good.

But just to reply to your remark: of course this is all about the numbers, so mass production is what is targeted. A negligible number of assembled kits wouldn't change a single thing. (Even this whole ban would not, but that's another question.) This does make some sense. "Kits" would be extremely expensive so they'll be extremely limited in number.

Heck "kit" is a big word. All you need is a 8K monitor. The rest in a TV set is just garbage that you can replace with relatively inexpensive devices that'll do much better without any telemetry. But expect very high prices for a 8K monitor. Even just the 8K panels (if you think about kits) are going to be absolutely out of reach for people with a budget for a TV set. Again just a matter of market and numbers.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2022, 03:36:42 am »
No, more like not hiding sugars under the general carbohydrates term.  (Sugars are carbohydrates, but their intake should be monitored separately from other carbohydrates.  Refined sugar is basically poison.  Hell, you can even use it as a disinfectant on open wounds!)

Honey is antibacterial, it contains a lot of sugar, that doesn't make it poison though. Really "poison" is almost entirely about dose. Salt, water and even oxygen are toxic in large enough quantities, yet we can't survive without them. Sugar, even refined sugar is fuel, you just don't want too much of it. Historically it was rare enough in nature to not be an issue, now of course it is plentiful.
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2022, 03:59:43 am »
No, more like not hiding sugars under the general carbohydrates term.  (Sugars are carbohydrates, but their intake should be monitored separately from other carbohydrates.  Refined sugar is basically poison.  Hell, you can even use it as a disinfectant on open wounds!)

Honey is antibacterial, it contains a lot of sugar, that doesn't make it poison though. Really "poison" is almost entirely about dose. Salt, water and even oxygen are toxic in large enough quantities, yet we can't survive without them. Sugar, even refined sugar is fuel, you just don't want too much of it. Historically it was rare enough in nature to not be an issue, now of course it is plentiful.

Yes it's all about the dose. No, sugar is not "poison", but it can become so in large doses, and that's a definite issue with modern processed food. There's just too much of it. It is metabolized very fast and triggers high insulin peaks which will make you store all that as fat quickly (and, over time, gets you insulin-resistant which is even worse), unless you can burn it instantly. Which doesn't happen unless you consume it while doing sports.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 04:01:42 am by SiliconWizard »
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2022, 04:35:02 am »
I think that by the time 8K becomes mainstream, the technology would have improved enough to meet the efficiency standards.
Likewise, if we were to rephrase this headline to CPUs and GPUs, would be as much beraged? I think that was the generally received sentiment of last gen CPU/GPU hardware so far, and of Intel's last few generations in the past as well. In my opinion it's also a tech market that's gone crazy. Sure fierce competition is good for pricing, but other "side effects" may suffer in the end. It's not an honest way of making progress.
Hasn't performance per watt improved with pretty much every generation, albeit by far less than it did in the past?
But we don't even have the transmission bandwidth on Freeview for anything more than 1080i60, and as you've pointed out, the average broadband connection is going to choke on 4K for some time (I'm feeling mighty fortunate with our 500Mbit/s BT FTTP, but I'm clearly the outlier!)
Download it overnight to watch when you want, just like what was done in the good old days.
I suspect that most viewers couldn’t tell the difference from ‘good’ 625/50 and the new high-def formats with well lit content in a well prepared viewing environment.
On a 50" class screen, the difference between 1080p and 4K is very obvious, the difference between DVD quality and 1080p is even more obvious.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Online wraper

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2022, 06:09:43 am »
I think that by the time 8K becomes mainstream, the technology would have improved enough to meet the efficiency standards.
Whatever it can or not, it's stupid to slap on them the same energy efficiency standard as on 4k. They will never be as efficient as 4k, not to say 1080p. Gaps between the pixels take much higher screen space percentage, so give or take they will be less efficient. Not to say they need more complicated and power consuming electronics too.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2022, 06:58:53 am »
8K? What for?

Well, maybe it will end up making sense to watch nature documentaries on TV with binoculars!  :popcorn:

You say that now but I said the same thing about 4K about 5-6 years ago. Now, I haven't looked back.

Even old HD and even very old SD content looks amazing on modern LCDs with the secret sauce Sony, Samsung, LG etc... are putting into their post-processing. It really gives old content a new life.
 

Offline eti

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2022, 07:54:17 am »
I worked in video engineering and production for over thirty years… apart from the shift to digital,
I suspect that most viewers couldn’t tell the difference from ‘good’ 625/50 and the new high-def formats with well lit content in a well prepared viewing environment.

It’s all about the ‘racing stripes’ and ‘GT badge’ on the fuel filler cap.

Large screens are great, but did you notice the quality of scriptwriting is inversely proportional to the screen size ?

Don’t even mention HDR and compression artefacts !

Don't come here with your uncommon sense, rare rational thinking and wisdom. Be gone! 😁

Absolutely spot on. The garbage coming into the TV is still the same.
 

Offline unknownparticleTopic starter

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2022, 02:24:57 pm »
Quote from: eti link=topic=350206.msg4499935#msg4499935 date=166746

Absolutely spot on. The garbage coming into the TV is still the same.
[/quote

How very dare you! It is not the same, it's massively worse, and descending all the time ;)  Lowest common denominator syndrome at work.
DC coupling is the devils work!!
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: The EU is banning 8K TV's!!!
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2022, 02:50:38 pm »
Oh no. Some power hungry TVs which are needlessly high resolution won't be for sale to the tiny slice of the market which spends excessive amounts of money on them. I will have a good cry over this.
Yes, it is pretty much like Audiophiles!
Why produce resolution that the eye can't use?
 


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