General > General Technical Chat
The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices
james_s:
--- Quote from: Berni on June 09, 2022, 05:45:34 am ---My assumptions are mostly from Youtube videos where i often seen people have issues with plugging in larger loads. As in they run extension cords from the larger outlets, they then find it is not quite the correct kind of "large outlet" and need a converter to it. I recently rember the Technology Connections video on electric kettles talking about kitchens how having the higher amperage outlets but kettles not using them etc..
Here all our plugs are the same Schuko 230V/16A plug. We run everything from those, from the 10W desk lamp to the 3kW clothes drier. Anything larger is typically 3 phase (Hardwired or IEC 60309)
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But nobody ever does that except for geeks, electric kettles aren't really a thing here due to the power thing, a few people do import European kettles and rig them up to work but that's far from the norm. Ordinary people just buy the appliances that are available and plug them into the standard outlets which are the only kind available for general use. Kitchens typically have at least two 120V 20A circuits for receptacles, a 240V 50A receptacle for the stove which is down behind the stove and not readily accessible and then modern houses will have dedicated 120V circuits for the dishwasher, microwave, and occasionally the garbage disposal however older houses have these spread across the regular appliance circuits.
So yes, our system is different than the European system, and technically yes there are multiple receptacle types, but anything beyond the 15A NEMA type will be a dedicated circuit that most people are never going to touch or even see. This is necessary due to the fact that our normal branch circuits are only 120V which is impractical for larger loads, our standard clothes dryers for example are 5.5kW and are much larger than the European dryers I've seen. Which is better? Having dealt with both I think they each have their strengths and neither system is a clear winner. Whatever the case it's not confusing, unless you go off the beaten path and do something unusual like using imported appliances.
james_s:
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 01:39:01 am ---If someone cannot remember the dominat (smart) phones of the 2005 era (17 years ago), they are either very young or lived in an undeveloped area upto then, likely the poster is young and doesn't know the history of the market.
You made out like (smart)phones had USB all along, they really didnt. USB was in widespread consumer use and the phone manufacturers persisted with their proprietary connectors (even making new ones as linked above). Exactly what you and that poster say wouldn't/didn't happen. I'm not picking out some obscure minority brand here, those were the dominant players in the market and they went for profit ahead of standardization/convenience. They weren't all using 5V or USB power for charging which made 3rd party cables a minefield, that changed only with standardization to USB connectors on the phones.
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That's quite an assumption. I'm in my mid 40s which certainly doesn't feel "very young" to me and I live in the northwest USA about 6 miles from Microsoft's headquarters so certainly not an undeveloped area and I've never seen a smartphone that didn't charge from a USB plug, either via an onboard connector or an included cable terminating in a USB plug with the proprietary (Apple) connector on the other end. The last phone I owned that had a proprietary charger was a flip phone and that was way back in 2007, prior to that I never had a mobile phone. Once again I'll reiterate that USB became the standard without any intervention from the government at all, the market decided that's what people wanted. There is still no requirement whatsoever on this and yet USB is everywhere.
james_s:
--- Quote from: JPortici on June 09, 2022, 05:57:15 am ---And i understand how most users that has a certain flag can not like it, it's just not in their DNA
US: throw a bunch of standards and let the market - or rather the biggest corporation - decide
EU: pick a standard and mandate it - possibly not choosing the best standard
sure it's because i was born and raised in the EU but i prefer how we do things around here
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You have to understand that this country was founded by a bunch of people that escaped overbearing oppressive governments specifically to found a new nation based on freedom from this sort of thing, individual choice and minimal regulation. It's far from perfect but it's something a great many of us hold dear and a fundamental component of our culture. I *hate* being told what to do and dealing with regulations and mandates, it feels like being treated like a small child incapable of making my own choices and there are few things that I find more oppressive and frustrating. I guess maybe someone that had always lived under a government that controls so many aspects of their life wouldn't understand, I don't know. Even my own government feels rather oppressive and mired in rules and regulations these days that I almost wish there was somewhere else to go and get away from it. I understand the need for some rules for things like protecting the environment, rules are a necessary evil but they ARE evil and I hate them.
tooki:
--- Quote from: Berni on June 09, 2022, 05:45:34 am ---My assumptions are mostly from Youtube videos
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So you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. (I’m American and have ample experience with receptacles in USA.)
--- Quote from: Berni on June 09, 2022, 05:45:34 am ---… where i often seen people have issues with plugging in larger loads. As in they run extension cords from the larger outlets, they then find it is not quite the correct kind of "large outlet" and need a converter to it. I recently rember the Technology Connections video on electric kettles talking about kitchens how having the higher amperage outlets but kettles not using them etc..
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You didn’t fully understand what he was saying. He was absolutely correct that nearly all kitchens have (ignoring the 240V outlet for the stove/oven) just 15A sockets, even if the circuit can handle 20A.
He was also saying how theoretically, you could wire a European kettle to a US 240V circuit. But that’s not something normal.
The only time people in USA typically run into problems of insufficient power is in very old houses where the electrical installation is very old and was never upgraded. (Early electrical was fundamentally envisioned for lighting, not appliances.) The last place I lived in USA was like that — built around 1915, with only one circuit for three rooms. Totally fine for lamps, radios, and TVs, but a serious constraint when using air conditioners.
This problem affects old houses in Europe too.
Modern buildings have massively more capacity, by having lots of circuits with lots of outlets.
--- Quote from: Berni on June 09, 2022, 05:45:34 am ---Here all our plugs are the same Schuko 230V/16A plug.
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Except when they’re not.
--- Quote from: Berni on June 09, 2022, 05:45:34 am ---We run everything from those, from the 10W desk lamp to the 3kW clothes drier. Anything larger is typically 3 phase (Hardwired or IEC 60309)
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FWIW, Switzerland has a really elegant system: standard outlets are 10A, but 16A versions exist, and there are also 3-phase sockets in both current capacities. All of the higher-power ones are downwards-compatible. So a standard 10A plug will fit in any of the 4 socket types. It’s not uncommon for things like stoves or old 3-phase clothes dryers or washers to be hard-wired, but they’re often plugged in.
Anyhow, the Swiss system means you don’t need chunky 16A plugs on ordinary appliances, but you can still install an outlet that can supply 16A 3-phase power without creating inconvenience.
JPortici:
--- Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2022, 06:19:58 am ---
--- Quote from: JPortici on June 09, 2022, 05:58:43 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2022, 05:29:35 am ---The only downside for the iPhone is that a USB-C socket is a bit bigger than a Lightning socket.
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upside: they'll have to make thicker phones that won't bend if you hold them wrong
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Which was never an actual problem in real life. Please don’t regurgitate exaggerated BS you read somewhere. (Yes, you could bend an iPhone 6 if you set out to do so. But it wasn’t an issue for anyone who treated their phone with even the most minimal amount of intelligence, like not keeping it in a front pocket of skinny jeans whose pocket bends when sitting. The “problem” was fixed in all subsequent models.)
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should have added a smiley there, come on :)
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