The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

[tszaboo]

I don't want to be mandated to do something just because the majority of people think it's a good idea, I want to make my own choices, I want to take my own risks, I want to look out for myself and live my life as I see fit, I don't want to be dragged down by the majority, I hate it, it's oppressive and suffocating. I'm a grown adult, not a child, I don't need a babysitter, I don't need anyone deciding what's good for me. I can't even pick a side with our government and politics because all of the viable parties are awful and I strongly disagree with all of them on one thing or another. I'd genuinely rather have gridlock than have any of them in control.

If you had lived over here, you would see how free we are to make our own choices in life. Nobody ever "decided" anything for me. Well something maybe. You had to go to school (but you were free to choose almost any education you wanted). You had to be 18 to do certain things. You have to have a driving license to drive. You can't just take other people's property. Etc. Laws and rules are necessary for a modern society to work and they are mostly common sense, definitely not oppressive, rather supportive. If you are successful in life, you don't even think of the government. It's when you are poor and have bad health that society really steps in here and offers help if you want it. I'm happy to pay my taxes for a better society. Your definition of freedom sounds like some wild fantasy, living in the past when people really had to struggle to get food, fight each other, died young and only a few got lucky and rich. All of this has improved immensely in the last 120 years. The technological development is mind boggling. Nothing of this would have been possible without a society with laws. I would never want to be dragged back to the dark times by conservative and authoritarian powers that fester corruption and inequality.

I dont think they will understand it. If the evil government makes a rule that companies cannot dump poison into rivers, half the Americans will go: "I don't want the government to tell me what to do".
They would never even imagine a friendly policeman arriving on a bicycle stopping you and telling you to not forget to turn on the light on yours because you might get injured, shaking hands smiling and go on your way.
But you know, that's the land of the free.
And I'm not going to paste here a list of things that I can legally do here which are illegal there. Like having a beer at 18.
It's like: Hey the government tells me what to buy, instead of "I can charge all my things with the same cable finally"

[eugene]

I'm not sure how this turned into an Europeans vs Americans pissing fest, but it's not productive. Probably better to keep it at the local pub where it belongs.

[SiliconWizard]

I'm not sure how this turned into an Europeans vs Americans pissing fest, but it's not productive. Probably better to keep it at the local pub where it belongs.

It's not, and it's a wrong debate. I'm european and I hate this EU putting its nose everywhere as much if not more than your average american.

But it's not surprising that it triggers a political debate, as the crux of the topic IS political. It's not technical.

[Monkeh]

Does the enforcement apply to the USB-C PD (power delivery) negotiation protocol? Trying to remember from Dave's old video, it required a fairly complicated proprietary solution, and couldn't be done with just firmware + phy.

2. Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld
videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being
recharged via wired charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or currents higher than 3
amperes or powers higher than 15 watts, shall:
(a) incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC
62680-1-2:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-2:
Common components - USB Power Delivery specification’;
(b) ensure that any additional charging protocol allows the full functionality of the
USB Power Delivery referred to in point (a).

[Someone]

Hang on, you're jumping forward past 2005 to 2007 when proprietary connectors on phones were still a thing...

Why do you keep bringing up 2005? Who cares about 2005? That's ancient history, I didn't even have a mobile phone that far back, let alone a smartphone and I didn't know anyone that had one until one of my friends got the original iPhone shortly after that came out. Personally I don't consider smartphones to have existed prior to the iPhone. Sure there were a few prototypical devices like Palm and Blackberry but those were esoteric things while the tech was still in its infancy and USB had only been around for a handful of years by that point and still had a lot of rough edges. The concept of using USB for charging only when a data connection was not needed was pretty uncommon but caught on anyway. It was never mandated and still is not mandated though so I don't really get the point you're trying to make. If it's a good idea, it will catch on, and if there are niche applications where it is preferable to have something else, it's good for that to be allowed. We don't need mandates, just buy products that have the features you want, and don't try to force everyone else to have the same thing. It is always better to have choice.

You're the one who keeps adding more specificity....

Did phones have a mess of different charging ports? Yes. Up until 2007 or a little bit after then. Were there lots of portable devices including phones before 2007? Yes.
Was USB ubiquitous before 2007? Yes.

What changed to make manufacturers use USB? micro USB and pending EU mandate.

Saying the market moved to USB on their own is incorrect, it didnt, the market resisted moving to USB and persisted with proprietary connectors until 2007.

Its pretty clear:

Mobile phones traditionally had obscure brand (or model) specific connectors for power and serial (or USB) so that you had to buy the accessories from them and only them. In the bad old good old dark days, you couldnt even charge over USB and as the power adapter had a captive cable it was mutually exclusive: charge or transfer data.

Still true.

[Someone]

Does the enforcement apply to the USB-C PD (power delivery) negotiation protocol? Trying to remember from Dave's old video, it required a fairly complicated proprietary solution, and couldn't be done with just firmware + phy.

2. Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld
videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being
recharged via wired charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or currents higher than 3
amperes or powers higher than 15 watts, shall:
(a) incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC
62680-1-2:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-2:
Common components - USB Power Delivery specification’;
(b) ensure that any additional charging protocol allows the full functionality of the
USB Power Delivery referred to in point (a).

Which leaves my worry that 5V x 3A with no PD negotiation will persist as the cheap/lowest common denominator that will become "standard".

[Monkeh]

Which leaves my worry that 5V x 3A with no PD negotiation will persist as the cheap/lowest common denominator that will become "standard".

This is fine. This is specifically so dumber devices can charge without needing extra complexity - you do not need USB PD capability in a headset, for example.

[Someone]

Which leaves my worry that 5V x 3A with no PD negotiation will persist as the cheap/lowest common denominator that will become "standard".

This is fine. This is specifically so dumber devices can charge without needing extra complexity - you do not need USB PD capability in a headset, for example.

Yes, the devices do not need it, but without standardized negotiation for high current 5V charging there will still be compatibility issues between charging sources and devices... and the specific worry I keep bringing up:

if devices are the mandate, USB-C connection but the volume/cheap stuff can persist with 5V <3A dumb endpoints
that is not going to deliver reusable and convenient charge anything power adaptors (USB-C PD)

So the claimed  motivation to reuse adaptors isnt best served by this.

[Berni]

Yep regular 5V non USB-PD will still be around for the simple cases.

It is not a bad thing either. The law is not about forcing cheep chargers to be more performant. There will always be cheap small low wattage chargers on the market because that's all that some people want or need. You bought a charger that is not physically capable of more performance, so this is what you get.

This is more about making the fast chargers interchangeable with each other. Right now your "Qualcomm Quick Charge 4" charger will not fast charge a Apple device or a device that supports "Huawei SuperCharge" or "Samsung Adaptive Fast Charging" or "OnePlus Wash Charge"all those fall back to the usual 5V at 2A or 3A. So you have a fast charge capable charger but it refuses to perform better than a normal slow charger because it doesn't understand what the phone wants it to do. USB-PD that comes with USB-C is what aims to solve this by standardizing on this one protocol. So your Samsung charger could fast charge a Huawei or iPhone or OnePlus

There ware attempts to standardize connectors on smartphones for years before the first iPhone was released. For example HTC (That was making WindowsMobile smartphones back when iOS or Android did not even exist yet) was putting miniUSB connectors on there devices (microUSB didn't exist yet either) and moved on to special 12 pin miniUSB connectors. These new 12 pin versions ware still compatible with the normal 5 pin miniUSB cables but had extra pins that are used to support things like Audio in/out, RS232 (Yes PDAs had those back then) etc.. But the rest of the industry was not impressed and stuck to there weird proprietary connectors.

[tszaboo]

Which leaves my worry that 5V x 3A with no PD negotiation will persist as the cheap/lowest common denominator that will become "standard".

This is fine. This is specifically so dumber devices can charge without needing extra complexity - you do not need USB PD capability in a headset, for example.

Yes, the devices do not need it, but without standardized negotiation for high current 5V charging there will still be compatibility issues between charging sources and devices... and the specific worry I keep bringing up:

if devices are the mandate, USB-C connection but the volume/cheap stuff can persist with 5V <3A dumb endpoints
that is not going to deliver reusable and convenient charge anything power adaptors (USB-C PD)

So the claimed  motivation to reuse adaptors isnt best served by this.

For a type-c device, to have 5V available for you, the only necessary electronics is 2x 5.1KOhm resistors between the CC lines and ground. There are also Type C plugs available with only like 6 pins, that can be used for charging only.

[eti]

Whatta Lotta Drama over something so meaningless 😂

[Someone]

This is more about making the fast chargers interchangeable with each other. Right now your "Qualcomm Quick Charge 4" charger will not fast charge a Apple device or a device that supports ....

Thanks for those examples, it looks like that Qualcomm has ended up PD compliant so it would charge other devices Apple etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Charge#Versions
we're getting there.

[Someone]

Which leaves my worry that 5V x 3A with no PD negotiation will persist as the cheap/lowest common denominator that will become "standard".

This is fine. This is specifically so dumber devices can charge without needing extra complexity - you do not need USB PD capability in a headset, for example.

Yes, the devices do not need it, but without standardized negotiation for high current 5V charging there will still be compatibility issues between charging sources and devices... and the specific worry I keep bringing up:

if devices are the mandate, USB-C connection but the volume/cheap stuff can persist with 5V <3A dumb endpoints
that is not going to deliver reusable and convenient charge anything power adaptors (USB-C PD)

So the claimed  motivation to reuse adaptors isnt best served by this.

For a type-c device, to have 5V available for you, the only necessary electronics is 2x 5.1KOhm resistors between the CC lines and ground. There are also Type C plugs available with only like 6 pins, that can be used for charging only.

I get that its all roses and works perfectly for "low power" 5V only devices, that is the problem as it is a convenient "out" or shortcut for the junk suppliers to meet the regulation in wording but not in spirit. Your 3A 5V result assumes the charger has USB-C, which isn't being mandated!

The EU mandate is allegedly about making people reuse their chargers across more devices. But not all devices will charge with only 5V power. So if they only mandate the device connection end, we will still end up with many incompatible chargers as more dumb 5V <1.5A (anything higher requires some negotiation) supplies are produced and shipped.

The labelling/information about chargers is pretty confusing and often hard to find for consumers, hopefully when USB-C is the only show in town at the other end that will solve its self.

[Simon]

New devices that don't have USB type C charging ports will be banned from the EU in a couple of years. It looks like USB-C will be the world standard in due course, thanks to the EU.

As a result, those doing design like I do will be more convinced to go USB-C from on on, rather than opting for micro USB. The directive will be under the EU's notorious Radio Emissions Directive (CE RED). Apple is protesting that enforcing USB-C will stifle innovation.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste

Is this a case of too much government control of our technology, or a commonsense approach to fixing a problem?
Good idea or not?

Sorry to get here late, but then the law in about 20 years too late? I mean who won't be making a phone without USBC that is not apple and who having signed up to paying through the nose for apple will buy android and be stuck for a charger. This law feels more like politicking than actually helping, we needed it so long ago that the market has dealt with it by itself now.

[Bassman59]

New devices that don't have USB type C charging ports will be banned from the EU in a couple of years. It looks like USB-C will be the world standard in due course, thanks to the EU.

As a result, those doing design like I do will be more convinced to go USB-C from on on, rather than opting for micro USB. The directive will be under the EU's notorious Radio Emissions Directive (CE RED). Apple is protesting that enforcing USB-C will stifle innovation.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste

Is this a case of too much government control of our technology, or a commonsense approach to fixing a problem?
Good idea or not?

Sorry to get here late, but then the law in about 20 years too late? I mean who won't be making a phone without USBC that is not apple and who having signed up to paying through the nose for apple will buy android and be stuck for a charger. This law feels more like politicking than actually helping, we needed it so long ago that the market has dealt with it by itself now.

I realize you hate Apple, but Apple's really not as stupid or as expensive as you think they are, and the people who follow this stuff fully expect the iPhone 14 that will be introduced this fall to have USB-C for charging and data. USB-C is already on the iPad Pro. The only question is whether the iPhone 14 will have an M1 processor (like the iPad Pro), or whether it will have a new A processor with a USB-C interface.

[Monkeh]

New devices that don't have USB type C charging ports will be banned from the EU in a couple of years. It looks like USB-C will be the world standard in due course, thanks to the EU.

As a result, those doing design like I do will be more convinced to go USB-C from on on, rather than opting for micro USB. The directive will be under the EU's notorious Radio Emissions Directive (CE RED). Apple is protesting that enforcing USB-C will stifle innovation.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste

Is this a case of too much government control of our technology, or a commonsense approach to fixing a problem?
Good idea or not?

Sorry to get here late, but then the law in about 20 years too late? I mean who won't be making a phone without USBC that is not apple and who having signed up to paying through the nose for apple will buy android and be stuck for a charger. This law feels more like politicking than actually helping, we needed it so long ago that the market has dealt with it by itself now.

I realize you hate Apple, but Apple's really not as stupid or as expensive as you think they are, and the people who follow this stuff fully expect the iPhone 14 that will be introduced this fall to have USB-C for charging and data. USB-C is already on the iPad Pro. The only question is whether the iPhone 14 will have an M1 processor (like the iPad Pro), or whether it will have a new A processor with a USB-C interface.

Angry rant by our resident fanboy aimed at you incoming, I'm sure.

[Simon]

New devices that don't have USB type C charging ports will be banned from the EU in a couple of years. It looks like USB-C will be the world standard in due course, thanks to the EU.

As a result, those doing design like I do will be more convinced to go USB-C from on on, rather than opting for micro USB. The directive will be under the EU's notorious Radio Emissions Directive (CE RED). Apple is protesting that enforcing USB-C will stifle innovation.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste

Is this a case of too much government control of our technology, or a commonsense approach to fixing a problem?
Good idea or not?

Sorry to get here late, but then the law in about 20 years too late? I mean who won't be making a phone without USBC that is not apple and who having signed up to paying through the nose for apple will buy android and be stuck for a charger. This law feels more like politicking than actually helping, we needed it so long ago that the market has dealt with it by itself now.

I realize you hate Apple, but Apple's really not as stupid or as expensive as you think they are, and the people who follow this stuff fully expect the iPhone 14 that will be introduced this fall to have USB-C for charging and data. USB-C is already on the iPad Pro. The only question is whether the iPhone 14 will have an M1 processor (like the iPad Pro), or whether it will have a new A processor with a USB-C interface.

Whether or not I hate apple was irrelevant. as I said people buying apple will buy apple and have the same connector on each new device, people buying android the same. This is not like 20 years ago when every manufacturer had a different size barrel jack connector and a different polarity and a different voltage, that is when we needed this law, the situation has now resolved itself and they decide to introduce a stupid law to say look how good we are - 20 years later.

[Monkeh]

Whether or not I hate apple was irrelevant. as I said people buying apple will buy apple and have the same connector on each new device, people buying android the same. This is not like 20 years ago when every manufacturer had a different size barrel jack connector and a different polarity and a different voltage, that is when we needed this law, the situation has now resolved itself and they decide to introduce a stupid law to say look how good we are - 20 years later.

It's not just about phones and it's not (entirely..) about Apple. Things are hardly resolved.

[tooki]

It's not just about phones and it's not (entirely..) about Apple. Things are hardly resolved.

Yeah, but let’s be realistic: if not for legislators who fall into media-driven trap of hating on Apple, they’d never have enacted this rule.

[Simon]

everything today is charged from USB, most charger no longer have a cable, they have a USB socket so to say that this is hardly resolved is silly, christ, even sex toys are supplied without a charger and have a USB socket, what more do you want? Every item I have bought lately that is cheap and has a single lithium cell which most aim to have has a USB socket for charging and is supplied without a charger. Manufacturers have found themselves liberated from the cost of having to supply a charger by simply putting a USB socket on the product.

[Neper]

"Universal loader, my ass. I'll get nowhere with this on Zørgbløx23."

[PlainName]

get that its all roses and works perfectly for "low power" 5V only devices, that is the problem as it is a convenient "out" or shortcut for the junk suppliers to meet the regulation in wording but not in spirit. Your 3A 5V result assumes the charger has USB-C, which isn't being mandated!

The EU mandate is allegedly about making people reuse their chargers across more devices. But not all devices will charge with only 5V power. So if they only mandate the device connection end, we will still end up with many incompatible chargers as more dumb 5V <1.5A (anything higher requires some negotiation) supplies are produced and shipped.

I think it will work better than you expect. Existing non-C chargers will just work the same as they do now, and any new 'cheap' minimal-function chargers ditto. But phones and stuff will require more power than these chargers can supply, and over time people will buy chargers that work with their devices properly. So when the difference between the chargers is 6 hours vs 1 hour to charge a specific model of phone, the users will migrate to buying the more powerful one. Just as now you buy the quick-charger that's compatible with your phone and not the one that isn't. But you can still grab some random one off a shelf and use that in a pinch. The difference is that the phone-specific charger is now going to be a generic one, so you're more likely to splash the cash since it will work with your next phone too, whatever that happens to be.

What I haven't caught yet, unless someone has resolved it, is what happens to wireless chargers. The upcoming regs affect only wired ones, so will wireless chargers with captive plugs (or plugs with captive wireless chargers, if you prefer) be OK? That seems to go against the regs, and I would have expected a mandate that wireless chargers should be powered from a USB-C source. That may seem a trivial thing right now, but wireless charging is the future, if not already the present.

[Simon]

from what I have seen any device will charge on any charger. The dumb stuff may be the problem but those are not phones so not covered. But a phone will use whatever charger you throw at it as it will work out what it is or not. As far as I am aware their is one fast charging system, it has several power/voltage levels but as there is a protocol used to negotiate this any charger and and phone are a match. I still do not see how mandating a USB-C socket on every phone helps unless they are mandating more than that but give the ignorant politicians and public a break, it's more complicated than that and we don't want to overly confuse them.

[Someone]

As far as I am aware their is one fast charging system, it has several power/voltage levels but as there is a protocol used to negotiate this any charger and and phone are a match. I still do not see how mandating a USB-C socket on every phone helps...

....because USB-C is the only connector which the PD negotiation works on (it has some extra pins to help).

[Simon]

And everyone that makes a device that wants to charge faster will use USB-C no need to make a law about that we needed that 20+ years ago. actually unless I have missed out on some new standard fast charging with negotiation between charger and device charged was already on micro USB, I had a phone and a wireless charger on micro USB that did fast charging. The actual connector was irrelevant, it's a USB thing, it would work on a USB B connector if anyone put one on a battery device.