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The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

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Monkeh:

--- Quote from: tooki on June 12, 2022, 10:24:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 12, 2022, 10:14:13 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 12, 2022, 07:20:30 am ---....because USB-C is the only connector which the PD negotiation works on (it has some extra pins to help).
--- End quote ---

I haven't checked whether the current versions support this, but the original version of USB-PD was negotiated over Vbus, and therefore worked with standard USB-A plugs.

--- End quote ---
Nope. You’re probably thinking of the USB BC (battery charging) standard, which does work on type A/B connectors. But USB-PD (which is a separate standard) is USB-C only.

--- End quote ---

The current version perhaps. Please look into the original version, which predates USB-C by several years. If you can find the specification they depublished, even better.

PlainName:

--- Quote from: tooki on June 12, 2022, 10:24:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 12, 2022, 10:14:13 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 12, 2022, 07:20:30 am ---....because USB-C is the only connector which the PD negotiation works on (it has some extra pins to help).
--- End quote ---

I haven't checked whether the current versions support this, but the original version of USB-PD was negotiated over Vbus, and therefore worked with standard USB-A plugs.

--- End quote ---
Nope. You’re probably thinking of the USB BC (battery charging) standard, which does work on type A/B connectors. But USB-PD (which is a separate standard) is USB-C only.

--- End quote ---

You are wrong.

I quoted the actual USB PD spec above, and here is some more:


--- Quote ---1.1 Overview
This specification defines how USB Devices can negotiate for more current and/or higher or lower voltages over the
USB cable (using VBUS or CC wire as the communications channel) than are defined in the [USB 2.0], [USB 3.1], [USB
Type-C 1.2] or [USB BC 1.2] specifications.  It allows Devices with greater power requirements than can be met with
today’s specification to get the power they require to operate from VBUS and negotiate with external power sources
(e.g. wall warts).  In addition, it allows a Source and Sink to swap power roles such that a Device could supply power
to the Host.  For example, a display could supply power to a notebook to charge its Battery.

The USB Power Delivery Specification is guided by the following principles:

1) Works seamlessly with legacy USB Devices
2) Compatible with existing spec-compliant USB cables
3) Minimizes potential damage from non-compliant cables (e.g. ‘Y’ cables etc.)
4) Optimized for low-cost implementations
--- End quote ---

And


--- Quote ---This specification is intended as an extension to the existing [USB 2.0], [USB 3.1], [USB Type-C 1.2] and [USB BC 1.2]
specifications.  It addresses only the elements required to implement USB Power Delivery.  It is targeted at power
supply vendors, manufacturers of [USB 2.0], [USB 3.1], [USB Type-C 1.2] and [USB BC 1.2] Platforms, Devices and
cable assemblies.
--- End quote ---

Someone:

--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 12, 2022, 10:45:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on June 12, 2022, 10:24:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 12, 2022, 10:14:13 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 12, 2022, 07:20:30 am ---....because USB-C is the only connector which the PD negotiation works on (it has some extra pins to help).
--- End quote ---
I haven't checked whether the current versions support this, but the original version of USB-PD was negotiated over Vbus, and therefore worked with standard USB-A plugs.
--- End quote ---
Nope. You’re probably thinking of the USB BC (battery charging) standard, which does work on type A/B connectors. But USB-PD (which is a separate standard) is USB-C only.
--- End quote ---
The current version perhaps. Please look into the original version, which predates USB-C by several years. If you can find the specification they depublished, even better.
--- End quote ---
I dug up the older version standard pretty easily, but (like over in the FIDO thread) there is such a volume of text across all the versions its hard to find any definitive answer to what is going to be mandated, what is optional, and what is no longer current/deprecated.

tooki:

--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 12, 2022, 10:45:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on June 12, 2022, 10:24:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 12, 2022, 10:14:13 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 12, 2022, 07:20:30 am ---....because USB-C is the only connector which the PD negotiation works on (it has some extra pins to help).
--- End quote ---

I haven't checked whether the current versions support this, but the original version of USB-PD was negotiated over Vbus, and therefore worked with standard USB-A plugs.

--- End quote ---
Nope. You’re probably thinking of the USB BC (battery charging) standard, which does work on type A/B connectors. But USB-PD is a separate standard) is USB-C only.

--- End quote ---

The current version perhaps. Please look into the original version, which predates USB-C by several years. If you can find the specification they depublished, even better.

--- End quote ---
You’re right. I’ll be honest, I’d forgotten they ever envisioned it to be on the A and B connectors. The fact that, according to the 1.0 standard (which isn’t hard to find at all), it requires hardware keying on the full-size connectors or a capacitor in the micro-B plug —that is, a cable must expressly identify itself as PD-capable — I question whether any such equipment ever shipped. I can’t even find mention of any PD-capable non-C cables, nor photos of what the connectors even look like.

Renesas, in this document, says the following as a segue into the USB-C connector:


--- Quote ---In practice, because all legacy USB connector types up to this point had a ‘hot’ 5V applied all the time from a source, it was not possible to use the bi-directional power flow capability without resorting to a non-USB compliant arrangement.
--- End quote ---




--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on June 12, 2022, 10:49:01 pm ---
You are wrong.

I quoted the actual USB PD spec above, and here is some more:


--- Quote ---1.1 Overview
This specification defines how USB Devices can negotiate for more current and/or higher or lower voltages over the
USB cable (using VBUS or CC wire as the communications channel) than are defined in the [USB 2.0], [USB 3.1], [USB
Type-C 1.2] or [USB BC 1.2] specifications.  It allows Devices with greater power requirements than can be met with
today’s specification to get the power they require to operate from VBUS and negotiate with external power sources
(e.g. wall warts).  In addition, it allows a Source and Sink to swap power roles such that a Device could supply power
to the Host.  For example, a display could supply power to a notebook to charge its Battery.

The USB Power Delivery Specification is guided by the following principles:

1) Works seamlessly with legacy USB Devices
2) Compatible with existing spec-compliant USB cables
3) Minimizes potential damage from non-compliant cables (e.g. ‘Y’ cables etc.)
4) Optimized for low-cost implementations
--- End quote ---

And


--- Quote ---This specification is intended as an extension to the existing [USB 2.0], [USB 3.1], [USB Type-C 1.2] and [USB BC 1.2]
specifications.  It addresses only the elements required to implement USB Power Delivery.  It is targeted at power
supply vendors, manufacturers of [USB 2.0], [USB 3.1], [USB Type-C 1.2] and [USB BC 1.2] Platforms, Devices and
cable assemblies.
--- End quote ---


--- End quote ---
None of that contradicts it requiring USB-C, since every single one of those standards is orthogonal to the others, and can be implemented with or without support for the other standards.

Monkeh:
Perhaps you would share with the class rather than jabbing that it's easily found.

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