General > General Technical Chat
The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices
Zero999:
--- Quote from: Halcyon on June 09, 2022, 10:28:10 am ---
--- Quote from: JohanH on June 09, 2022, 09:17:01 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 09, 2022, 06:55:26 am ---
I guess maybe someone that had always lived under a government that controls so many aspects of their life wouldn't understand, I don't know. Even my own government feels rather oppressive and mired in rules and regulations these days that I almost wish there was somewhere else to go and get away from it. I understand the need for some rules for things like protecting the environment, rules are a necessary evil but they ARE evil and I hate them.
--- End quote ---
I live in a country where the government consists of ordinary people and where the majority of the people in the country actually trust the government and feel that the people representing them are making decisions that we would do ourselves. This is also the case in many other countries in the EU. It's not perfect, but it works good enough and all statistics show that people living in the Nordic countries in EU are the happiest, most equal and free people in the world with least corruption etc. And EU is the largest peace project ever that has worked pretty much fine for 70+ years. I'm sorry for people living in oppressive and authoritarian countries. This knee-jerk opposition to government is totally strange to us, where the government actually helps people and makes our lives better. Of course there are some criticism all the time, but this belongs and is encouraged in a democracy. I have followed some of US politics and I can see where your views come from. My personal opinion is that you will never have equal human rights, less poverty and criminality unless you change some of your ways. Now this goes into politics, but it seems it has also much impact on technology. Very interesting how your government swayed forth and back e.g. about net neutrality.
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What you describe is essentially Australia (albeit it's much colder there and you have better internet).
Both Finland and Australia are in the top 10 countries having the highest human freedoms.
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I wouldn't say that. Australia is quite authoritarian compared to much of Europe, especially Scandinavia. The last two years have proven that. Whether it was proportionate, or not is another matter and is off-topic.
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 08:05:11 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 09, 2022, 06:45:43 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 01:39:01 am ---If someone cannot remember the dominat (smart) phones of the 2005 era (17 years ago), they are either very young or lived in an undeveloped area upto then, likely the poster is young and doesn't know the history of the market.
You made out like (smart)phones had USB all along, they really didnt. USB was in widespread consumer use and the phone manufacturers persisted with their proprietary connectors (even making new ones as linked above). Exactly what you and that poster say wouldn't/didn't happen. I'm not picking out some obscure minority brand here, those were the dominant players in the market and they went for profit ahead of standardization/convenience. They weren't all using 5V or USB power for charging which made 3rd party cables a minefield, that changed only with standardization to USB connectors on the phones.
--- End quote ---
That's quite an assumption. I'm in my mid 40s which certainly doesn't feel "very young" to me and I live in the northwest USA about 6 miles from Microsoft's headquarters so certainly not an undeveloped area and I've never seen a smartphone that didn't charge from a USB plug, either via an onboard connector or an included cable terminating in a USB plug with the proprietary (Apple) connector on the other end. The last phone I owned that had a proprietary charger was a flip phone and that was way back in 2007, prior to that I never had a mobile phone. Once again I'll reiterate that USB became the standard without any intervention from the government at all, the market decided that's what people wanted. There is still no requirement whatsoever on this and yet USB is everywhere.
--- End quote ---
Hang on, you're jumping forward past 2005 to 2007 when proprietary connectors on phones were still a thing...
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 01:13:33 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 09, 2022, 12:24:49 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 08, 2022, 11:32:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: eugene on June 08, 2022, 06:05:26 pm ---I'll assume it has something to do with early phones that used a variety of barrel plugs. If so, I'm not ready to give law makers any credit for increasing convenience in my life (which is all that this law is about; simple convenience.) I'm certain that makers of smart phones would have included USB ports for communication purposes anyway. And, I'm just as certain that they would have used those ports for charging. No laws required. (For the record, I am not against all laws, just pointless ones that do more harm than good.)
--- End quote ---
This shows your age very starkly. Mobile phones traditionally had obscure brand (or model) specific connectors for power and serial (or USB) so that you had to buy the accessories from them and only them. In the bad old good old dark days, you couldnt even charge over USB and as the power adapter had a captive cable it was mutually exclusive: charge or transfer data.
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That doesn't say anything about his age, I remember well the days when mobile phones had proprietary connectors, but they standardized without any government intervention at all. They did it because it made sense, USB became ubiquitous enough that it was no longer sensible in most cases to use custom connectors. These days Apple is the exception, however even they include a cable that terminates with a standard USB plug so the issue is moot.
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USB was widespread well before smartphones used the standard connectors directly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Pop-Port
one easily documented example persisted until 2007, which links to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastPort
continuing to 2010
While USB was in use since 1996 and was ubiquitous in the early 2000's as Microsoft had USB only mice from 2001 onward?
--- End quote ---
As I already said! So your experience was that phone(s) did have proprietary connectors in 2007. Yet USB was ubiquitous in 2000/2001. The market did not move to USB quickly or see the advantages, they bodged USB in on proprietary connectors rather than using the available mini USB. It was after 2007 with the release of micro USB that movement started and even then the EU didn't like the fractured solutions and moved to speed it up.
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Does it really matter? Smartphones only became really popular, after the market had standardised on USB charging. Those who got phones with proprietary connectors were the early adopters.
Regarding the original topic: I have no love for the EU, or Apple, but it does seem a bit foolish mandating something which is already defacto. There are areas where legislation is necessary, such as minimum efficiency standards for lamps, as incandescent lamps didn't just cause excess pollution, but also gave consumers a raw deal, but this isn't on of them.
Miyuki:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 15, 2022, 12:34:28 pm ---...
Regarding the original topic: I have no love for the EU, or Apple, but it does seem a bit foolish mandating something which is already defacto. There are areas where legislation is necessary, such as minimum efficiency standards for lamps, as incandescent lamps didn't just cause excess pollution, but also gave consumers a raw deal, but this isn't on of them.
--- End quote ---
:o
Why should laps have required efficiency? It should be an informed decision on what is better for you.
The incandescent lamp ban brought more harm than good.
When it came, there was no reasonable replacement for most uses readily available. CCFL was environmentally worse than Incandescent.
And today led light fixtures are way better so no one buys incandescent even when they are currently again widely available. "for special purposes"
Mandatory USB C/PD is on the other way a good thing, same as a unified EV charger. Look at Tesla, which can offer cars with that port in the EU, whereas in the US you have separate systems, even when now you can use converters, but it is not without issue
Zero999:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on June 15, 2022, 02:32:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 15, 2022, 12:34:28 pm ---...
Regarding the original topic: I have no love for the EU, or Apple, but it does seem a bit foolish mandating something which is already defacto. There are areas where legislation is necessary, such as minimum efficiency standards for lamps, as incandescent lamps didn't just cause excess pollution, but also gave consumers a raw deal, but this isn't on of them.
--- End quote ---
:o
Why should laps have required efficiency? It should be an informed decision on what is better for you.
The incandescent lamp ban brought more harm than good.
When it came, there was no reasonable replacement for most uses readily available. CCFL was environmentally worse than Incandescent.
And today led light fixtures are way better so no one buys incandescent even when they are currently again widely available. "for special purposes"
Mandatory USB C/PD is on the other way a good thing, same as a unified EV charger. Look at Tesla, which can offer cars with that port in the EU, whereas in the US you have separate systems, even when now you can use converters, but it is not without issue
--- End quote ---
How is CCFL environmentally worse than incandescent? It's got nothing to do with the mercury, because the lamp contains <5mg and more is released through burning extra coal, to power incandescent, even before other nasties such as CO2 are concerned.
The free market was tried and people still bought incandescent due to the cheaper upfront cost, but ended up paying more in the long run in higher energy bills.
Miyuki:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 15, 2022, 03:07:49 pm ---How is CCFL environmentally worse than incandescent? It's got nothing to do with the mercury, because the lamp contains <5mg and more is released through burning extra coal, to power incandescent, even before other nasties such as CO2 are concerned.
The free market was tried and people still bought incandescent due to the cheaper upfront cost, but ended up paying more in the long run in higher energy bills.
--- End quote ---
Simple, people who were forced to buy one, won't buy expensive durable ones, but cheap ones, which in reality fail after about that same time as incandescents
It contains way more stuff than a tiny amount of mercury, you have that driver board and so.
And heat produced is most of the time not wasted in European conditions, so just more use of electric heaters.
There were plenty of cases where CCFL just did not make sense.
I know people are dumb and hate changes, but most people used them in cases where it makes sense to use such light.
MT:
No such thing as free market, its all regulated by politics in tandem with big gangster bisniss as it always was, Its a big club, and you aint in it!.
USB-C? obviously should not be enforced by dictate.
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