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The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

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Someone:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 15, 2022, 12:34:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 08:05:11 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 09, 2022, 06:45:43 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 01:39:01 am ---If someone cannot remember the dominant (smart) phones of the 2005 era (17 years ago), they are either very young or lived in an undeveloped area upto then, likely the poster is young and doesn't know the history of the market.

You made out like (smart)phones had USB all along, they really didnt. USB was in widespread consumer use and the phone manufacturers persisted with their proprietary connectors (even making new ones as linked above). Exactly what you and that poster say wouldn't/didn't happen. I'm not picking out some obscure minority brand here, those were the dominant players in the market and they went for profit ahead of standardization/convenience. They weren't all using 5V or USB power for charging which made 3rd party cables a minefield, that changed only with standardization to USB connectors on the phones.

--- End quote ---

That's quite an assumption. I'm in my mid 40s which certainly doesn't feel "very young" to me and I live in the northwest USA about 6 miles from Microsoft's headquarters so certainly not an undeveloped area and I've never seen a smartphone that didn't charge from a USB plug, either via an onboard connector or an included cable terminating in a USB plug with the proprietary (Apple) connector on the other end. The last phone I owned that had a proprietary charger was a flip phone and that was way back in 2007, prior to that I never had a mobile phone. Once again I'll reiterate that USB became the standard without any intervention from the government at all, the market decided that's what people wanted. There is still no requirement whatsoever on this and yet USB is everywhere.

--- End quote ---
Hang on, you're jumping forward past 2005 to 2007 when proprietary connectors on phones were still a thing...


--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 01:13:33 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 09, 2022, 12:24:49 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 08, 2022, 11:32:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: eugene on June 08, 2022, 06:05:26 pm ---I'll assume it has something to do with early phones that used a variety of barrel plugs. If so, I'm not ready to give law makers any credit for increasing convenience in my life (which is all that this law is about; simple convenience.) I'm certain that makers of smart phones would have included USB ports for communication purposes anyway. And, I'm just as certain that they would have used those ports for charging. No laws required. (For the record, I am not against all laws, just pointless ones that do more harm than good.)
--- End quote ---
This shows your age very starkly. Mobile phones traditionally had obscure brand (or model) specific connectors for power and serial (or USB) so that you had to buy the accessories from them and only them. In the bad old good old dark days, you couldnt even charge over USB and as the power adapter had a captive cable it was mutually exclusive: charge or transfer data.
--- End quote ---
That doesn't say anything about his age, I remember well the days when mobile phones had proprietary connectors, but they standardized without any government intervention at all. They did it because it made sense, USB became ubiquitous enough that it was no longer sensible in most cases to use custom connectors. These days Apple is the exception, however even they include a cable that terminates with a standard USB plug so the issue is moot.
--- End quote ---
USB was widespread well before smartphones used the standard connectors directly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Pop-Port
one easily documented example persisted until 2007, which links to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastPort
continuing to 2010

While USB was in use since 1996 and was ubiquitous in the early 2000's as Microsoft had USB only mice from 2001 onward?
--- End quote ---
As I already said! So your experience was that phone(s) did have proprietary connectors in 2007. Yet USB was ubiquitous in 2000/2001. The market did not move to USB quickly or see the advantages, they bodged USB in on proprietary connectors rather than using the available mini USB. It was after 2007 with the release of micro USB that movement started and even then the EU didn't like the fractured solutions and moved to speed it up.

--- End quote ---
Does it really matter? Smartphones only became really popular, after the market had standardised on USB charging. Those who got phones with proprietary connectors were the early adopters.

Regarding the original topic: I have no love for the EU, or Apple, but it does seem a bit foolish mandating something which is already defacto. There are areas where legislation is necessary, such as minimum efficiency standards for lamps, as incandescent lamps didn't just cause excess pollution, but also gave consumers a raw deal, but this isn't on of them.
--- End quote ---
Sure, IF you only want to talk about smartphones.

That is what I keep separating, and people keep adding back in.

When was USB ubiquitous? 2000 ish
When were phones with USB charging ubiquitous? not until the late 200x's

Phones, regardless of smartness or not.

To try and frame the history of phones or portable electronics to only mass market smartphones is nonsense.

If you want to talk about mass market smartphones, why didn't they all have USB since they entered the market after USB was already ubiquitous? Apple in particular is still a hold out. The open market has not settled or solved this.

NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: Berni on June 15, 2022, 06:04:53 pm ---Yep imagine how fast our kettles could boil water if only there was a company with the balls to say screw this pissant 230V standard outlet and make a kettle that runs directly from medium voltage transmission line power. Those 22kV could carry 350kW over the same 16A wires. Sure you might not have the outlet for it right know, but for a low one time fee they can send over a technician to install there revolutionary next generation outlet in your very own kitchen.

But isn't 22kV like really dangerous? Sure it might require a bit more care, but that's why you sign the waiver that the installation technician brings along conveniently. It is after all the consumers choice to use this revolutionary new technology that lets them boil a kettle in 5 seconds flat. The consumers know what they want, not some tight assed bureaucrat that thinks this high of a power is somehow 'too dangerous'

--- End quote ---
22kV should do it in much less than 5 seconds. A mere 400V does it in 10 seconds.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: coppercone2 on June 15, 2022, 09:58:07 am ---actually I am convinced that this is retarded now, study a interconnects catalog to see innovation in interconnects, for instance very impressive connectors that are are not sensitive to alignment (1mm play for a 400A connection!).

and thats just something I randomly stumbled onto on digikey the other day. USB C is gonna look like knob and wire in the future

--- End quote ---

Of course. And what about devices that would embed ONLY wireless charging in the future? Why force them to implement a physical connection? Getting rid of connectors altogether for mobile devices does make things much better for reliability and waterproofing.

As to USB charging per se, as others have pointed out, USB-C is a very complex mess and it's impossible that any device would implement all of it (at least concerning the power delivery part), so that would mean a possibly degraded charging when using it with a random charger. Which means, users can't expect the same performance from all "compatible" chargers. But that's already the case.

And, apart from Apple (which may be the main target at the moment?), most recent mobile devices DO already have USB connection for charging. The most recent ones do HAVE USB-C, but there still are some micro-USB out there. But guess what? Who cares, all you need is a fricking CABLE to connect it to any USB charging port. You may again just not get the best charging performance depending on the charger itself, but it'll work.

Anyway...

Monkeh:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 16, 2022, 02:18:48 am ---And what about devices that would embed ONLY wireless charging in the future? Why force them to implement a physical connection?

--- End quote ---

Why indeed? To ask another why, why haven't you read the actual proposal?

Zero999:

--- Quote from: Someone on June 15, 2022, 10:13:47 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 15, 2022, 12:34:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 08:05:11 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 09, 2022, 06:45:43 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 01:39:01 am ---If someone cannot remember the dominant (smart) phones of the 2005 era (17 years ago), they are either very young or lived in an undeveloped area upto then, likely the poster is young and doesn't know the history of the market.

You made out like (smart)phones had USB all along, they really didnt. USB was in widespread consumer use and the phone manufacturers persisted with their proprietary connectors (even making new ones as linked above). Exactly what you and that poster say wouldn't/didn't happen. I'm not picking out some obscure minority brand here, those were the dominant players in the market and they went for profit ahead of standardization/convenience. They weren't all using 5V or USB power for charging which made 3rd party cables a minefield, that changed only with standardization to USB connectors on the phones.

--- End quote ---

That's quite an assumption. I'm in my mid 40s which certainly doesn't feel "very young" to me and I live in the northwest USA about 6 miles from Microsoft's headquarters so certainly not an undeveloped area and I've never seen a smartphone that didn't charge from a USB plug, either via an onboard connector or an included cable terminating in a USB plug with the proprietary (Apple) connector on the other end. The last phone I owned that had a proprietary charger was a flip phone and that was way back in 2007, prior to that I never had a mobile phone. Once again I'll reiterate that USB became the standard without any intervention from the government at all, the market decided that's what people wanted. There is still no requirement whatsoever on this and yet USB is everywhere.

--- End quote ---
Hang on, you're jumping forward past 2005 to 2007 when proprietary connectors on phones were still a thing...


--- Quote from: Someone on June 09, 2022, 01:13:33 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 09, 2022, 12:24:49 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on June 08, 2022, 11:32:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: eugene on June 08, 2022, 06:05:26 pm ---I'll assume it has something to do with early phones that used a variety of barrel plugs. If so, I'm not ready to give law makers any credit for increasing convenience in my life (which is all that this law is about; simple convenience.) I'm certain that makers of smart phones would have included USB ports for communication purposes anyway. And, I'm just as certain that they would have used those ports for charging. No laws required. (For the record, I am not against all laws, just pointless ones that do more harm than good.)
--- End quote ---
This shows your age very starkly. Mobile phones traditionally had obscure brand (or model) specific connectors for power and serial (or USB) so that you had to buy the accessories from them and only them. In the bad old good old dark days, you couldnt even charge over USB and as the power adapter had a captive cable it was mutually exclusive: charge or transfer data.
--- End quote ---
That doesn't say anything about his age, I remember well the days when mobile phones had proprietary connectors, but they standardized without any government intervention at all. They did it because it made sense, USB became ubiquitous enough that it was no longer sensible in most cases to use custom connectors. These days Apple is the exception, however even they include a cable that terminates with a standard USB plug so the issue is moot.
--- End quote ---
USB was widespread well before smartphones used the standard connectors directly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Pop-Port
one easily documented example persisted until 2007, which links to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastPort
continuing to 2010

While USB was in use since 1996 and was ubiquitous in the early 2000's as Microsoft had USB only mice from 2001 onward?
--- End quote ---
As I already said! So your experience was that phone(s) did have proprietary connectors in 2007. Yet USB was ubiquitous in 2000/2001. The market did not move to USB quickly or see the advantages, they bodged USB in on proprietary connectors rather than using the available mini USB. It was after 2007 with the release of micro USB that movement started and even then the EU didn't like the fractured solutions and moved to speed it up.

--- End quote ---
Does it really matter? Smartphones only became really popular, after the market had standardised on USB charging. Those who got phones with proprietary connectors were the early adopters.

Regarding the original topic: I have no love for the EU, or Apple, but it does seem a bit foolish mandating something which is already defacto. There are areas where legislation is necessary, such as minimum efficiency standards for lamps, as incandescent lamps didn't just cause excess pollution, but also gave consumers a raw deal, but this isn't on of them.
--- End quote ---
Sure, IF you only want to talk about smartphones.

That is what I keep separating, and people keep adding back in.

When was USB ubiquitous? 2000 ish
When were phones with USB charging ubiquitous? not until the late 200x's

Phones, regardless of smartness or not.

To try and frame the history of phones or portable electronics to only mass market smartphones is nonsense.

If you want to talk about mass market smartphones, why didn't they all have USB since they entered the market after USB was already ubiquitous? Apple in particular is still a hold out. The open market has not settled or solved this.

--- End quote ---
It took awhile for USB to become widespread on phones. That isn't an argument for government legislation. The market got there in the end, even if it did take awhile.

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