General > General Technical Chat

The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

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tooki:

--- Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on December 13, 2022, 02:09:13 pm ---We could argue this all day, but making assumptions about me is no substitute for facts. Even if I was a "reality avoiding Apple hater" that wouldn't invalidate my statements, even statements from a prejudiced person can be true.

--- End quote ---
That’s true. But this isn’t such a case, since almost all of your claims are provably factually incorrect. I went through them one by one.

tooki:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 13, 2022, 01:32:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 09:47:06 am ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 12, 2022, 02:11:29 am ---"The "lightning" cables (like most things Apple) are stupid prices."  -  that's your explanation right there, it's all about the money...

--- End quote ---
Except that this assumption is simply not true. Lightning cables, whether Apple or third party, whether high quality or el cheap, cost about the same as equivalent USB-C cables.

--- End quote ---

The key is,  who is selling them? 

--- End quote ---
How so?

As I said: in every category of cable (original, quality third party, and el-cheapo third party), Lightning cables are sold at comparable cost to USB-C.


--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 13, 2022, 01:32:28 pm ---Third parties cannot just start selling products covered by Apple intellectual property...   (in principle, they cannot sell USB things without paying their dues either).

--- End quote ---
Quality cable manufacturers license them (IIRC this also means they source the Lightning plugs from Apple, which makes them available under the MFi program), as do many (but definitely not all) budget cable companies. The others simply use clone plugs and either leave off the MFi logos, or use the logos fraudulently.

But the upshot is: for any given quality level of cable, you basically have your choice of Lightning or USB-C at the same (or extremely similar) price. There’s absolutely no substance to the claims of Lightning cables having “stupid prices” compared to USB-C.

For example, Apple 1m cables cost $19, whether USB-A to Lightning, USB-C to Lightning, or USB-C to USB-C.

Anker, a top quality third party, charges $14.99 for their entry level 6’ cable, whether USB-A to Lightning or USB-C to USB-C, and $17.99 for USB-C to Lightning.

And on AliExpress, any of those cable types can be had from about $1 upwards, in whatever quality that gets you…

This is my point: Apple isn’t getting rich off of cables, at least, no more so than anyone else is.

Sherlock Holmes:

--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 09:45:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on December 11, 2022, 03:11:04 pm ---What's Apple's problem anyway, why are they playing victim?

--- End quote ---
Aaaand I can already see we’ll be dealing with a reality-avoiding Apple hater.

--- End quote ---

How you interpret what I said is your concern, Apple's complaining reflects the company's concerns not customer or consumers or the environment. Their eagerness to exploit the impoverished labor markets in China is sufficient to establish that. Claiming that a single vendor with a monopoly on an interconnection technology is "good for consumers" is untrue.


--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 09:45:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on December 11, 2022, 03:11:04 pm ---USB-C (USB 3) handles up to 640 Mbps, Apple's (effectively USB 2) is 480 Mbps.

--- End quote ---
You need to read up on USB-C anew.

USB-C can, but does not have to be, USB 3, and USB 3 can be up to 20Gbps. USB-C can also be USB 4 (40Gbps), Thunderbolt 3 or 4 (also 40Gbps), or just USB 2 (480Mbps).

--- End quote ---

I'd meant to type MB/sec not Mb/sec. The point though is that based on a quantitative comparison the old "lightning" cable/connector/system is technically inferior.


--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 09:45:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on December 11, 2022, 03:11:04 pm ---iPad pro already uses USB-C, USB offers greater power delivery.

--- End quote ---
Correct. As an iPad Pro owner, I’d love to see iPhone move to USB-C so I can once again use the same cables for my phone, tablet, and earbuds.

--- End quote ---

Well thanks to the EU you won't have long to wait.


--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 09:45:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on December 11, 2022, 03:11:04 pm ---The "lightning" cables (like most things Apple) are stupid prices.

--- End quote ---
Utter nonsense. Lightning cables don’t cost any more than the old Dock connector cables it replaced, nor any more than the USB-C cables that are replacing Lightning.

--- End quote ---

A 1m long lightening/USB cable costs 19 USD on the Apple store, a 0.5m lightning to USB also costs the same. A high quality braid covered 1m USB to USB-C connector costs 4.5 dollars, the price for a pair being around 9 dollars, there are a huge number of suppliers to choose from (aka "good for consumers").

The only nonsense I can see here, is the claim by Apple that paying four times more for a short cable is good for consumers.


--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 09:45:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on December 11, 2022, 03:11:04 pm ---Apple are and always have been about presentation rather than functionality, external design rather than internal.

--- End quote ---
And there we have it, more reality-avoiding Apple hatred. The reason Apple has been so spectacularly successful is that beneath the style, there is real substance. Their products work well — really well — and that’s why people buy them. And that’s always been the reason people buy them.

--- End quote ---

Even if I did "hate" Apple, what of it?

You'll need to explain what you mean wen you refer to me as "reality avoiding", I disagree with you, is that what you mean? People buy things for a host of reasons, in Apple's case presentation is a large part of their appeal and always has been. Steve Jobs is on record as emphasizing time and again how products should look over how they should perform. He was never a technology oriented individual, pioneer or innovator.

Sherlock Holmes:

--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 03:11:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 13, 2022, 01:32:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2022, 09:47:06 am ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 12, 2022, 02:11:29 am ---"The "lightning" cables (like most things Apple) are stupid prices."  -  that's your explanation right there, it's all about the money...

--- End quote ---
Except that this assumption is simply not true. Lightning cables, whether Apple or third party, whether high quality or el cheap, cost about the same as equivalent USB-C cables.

--- End quote ---

The key is,  who is selling them? 

--- End quote ---
How so?

As I said: in every category of cable (original, quality third party, and el-cheapo third party), Lightning cables are sold at comparable cost to USB-C.


--- End quote ---

May I?


--- Quote ---Apple’s 1m USB-C to Lightning Cable, which allows faster charging for compatible iPhones and iPads, has been reduced in price. When the cable debuted, the original price was $25 for the 1m version, and $35 for the 2m version.
--- End quote ---

and


--- Quote ---It appears that last month, Apple quietly dropped the price of the 1m USB-C to Lighting Cable by $6, going from $25 to $19. This change comes amid rumors that new iPhones will drop the USB-A-equipped Lightning to USB Cables in favor of USB-C cables that are able to facilitate faster charging.
--- End quote ---

Taken from here.









Monkeh:

--- Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on December 13, 2022, 03:38:54 pm ---A 1m long lightening/USB cable costs 19 USD on the Apple store, a 0.5m lightning to USB also costs the same. A high quality braid covered 1m USB to USB-C connector costs 4.5 dollars, the price for a pair being around 9 dollars, there are a huge number of suppliers to choose from (aka "good for consumers").

--- End quote ---

Made by.. wait, who are they? Shenzhen Wuyishi Technology Co.,Ltd? Will they be around next month?

Let's look at a USB-A to USB-C from a reputable name, shall we? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07213D35X

Yes, that one has all the signals present, so you don't have to play 'guess what this cable does'..

Sorry, was the 'high quality braid' an important factor? Okay: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GN0M6NE

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