The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

[Zero999]

It took awhile for USB to become widespread on phones. That isn't an argument for government legislation. The market got there in the end, even if it did take awhile.

It just needed to be mandated from the EU in the late 2000s (i don't want to bother looking for the article again.)

No it didn’t. If they had mandated it back then, it wouldn’t have been USB-C and we’d now be stuck with and obsolete standard. This is precisely why state intervention is bad.

[madires]

For the historic context, micro USB wasn't mandated by the EU back then (2009). It was an MoU submitted by the mobile phone industry after the EU started thinking about a standard charging port: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_1049.

[Simon]

I have no idea! They are, of course, made in China so any CE mark would be suspect even if it existed

However, I don't think that's relevant - the point was that these are examples of problems that don't result in mass complaints, so the lack of complaints can't be taken as an indicator of no issues.

You keep missing the point. If the tests are not robust enough then even a "matched pair" of phone and charger could cause an issue if the issue does not present itself during testing. If it is as bad as say a phone screen going haywire with a certain charger then someone did not do it right in validation. It's like saying that you cannot buy a lap top power supply unless it is the same supply that was tested with the same laptop.

[Miyuki]

I have no idea! They are, of course, made in China so any CE mark would be suspect even if it existed

However, I don't think that's relevant - the point was that these are examples of problems that don't result in mass complaints, so the lack of complaints can't be taken as an indicator of no issues.

You keep missing the point. If the tests are not robust enough then even a "matched pair" of phone and charger could cause an issue if the issue does not present itself during testing. If it is as bad as say a phone screen going haywire with a certain charger then someone did not do it right in validation. It's like saying that you cannot buy a lap top power supply unless it is the same supply that was tested with the same laptop.

None of the cheap power bricks are tested.
Maybe some branded (Apple, Lenovo, Dell) might be, but still, they are commonly "optimized" after that point
Plus you have plenty of counterfeited ones and you have no idea until you open them
You can buy a charger that looks almost or even exactly the same as the original and find a life threatening mess inside.
And almost every generic one is something crazy, what cannot pass not just EMC but basic safety rules

[SiliconWizard]

I have no idea! They are, of course, made in China so any CE mark would be suspect even if it existed

However, I don't think that's relevant - the point was that these are examples of problems that don't result in mass complaints, so the lack of complaints can't be taken as an indicator of no issues.

You keep missing the point. If the tests are not robust enough then even a "matched pair" of phone and charger could cause an issue if the issue does not present itself during testing. If it is as bad as say a phone screen going haywire with a certain charger then someone did not do it right in validation. It's like saying that you cannot buy a lap top power supply unless it is the same supply that was tested with the same laptop.

None of the cheap power bricks are tested.
Maybe some branded (Apple, Lenovo, Dell) might be, but still, they are commonly "optimized" after that point
Plus you have plenty of counterfeited ones and you have no idea until you open them
You can buy a charger that looks almost or even exactly the same as the original and find a life threatening mess inside.
And almost every generic one is something crazy, what cannot pass not just EMC but basic safety rules

Yep, yep, yep.

And for someone who claims being so good at EMC that all their devices pass without a single issue, I found their answer a bit odd.

[tooki]

Have any of these adapters been properly EMC tested? I don't know what the standards would have done but I would hope you put a range of loads on the adapter. If they are passing tests but causing an issue well then legally everyone is in the clear and the legislators need to go and have another think about how to deal with it.

I know for a fact that Apple’s earliest USB chargers, the ones sold for iPods, could cause touchscreen problems on the iPhone, which is why Apple released a new iPhone USB Charger with the iPhone. All of them are absolutely EMC tested and don’t really spare any expenses inside.

(For what it’s worth, I think I used the iPod charger on my iPhone without issue, but it’s been 15 years so don’t hold me to it!!)

[Simon]

I have no idea! They are, of course, made in China so any CE mark would be suspect even if it existed

However, I don't think that's relevant - the point was that these are examples of problems that don't result in mass complaints, so the lack of complaints can't be taken as an indicator of no issues.

You keep missing the point. If the tests are not robust enough then even a "matched pair" of phone and charger could cause an issue if the issue does not present itself during testing. If it is as bad as say a phone screen going haywire with a certain charger then someone did not do it right in validation. It's like saying that you cannot buy a lap top power supply unless it is the same supply that was tested with the same laptop.

None of the cheap power bricks are tested.
Maybe some branded (Apple, Lenovo, Dell) might be, but still, they are commonly "optimized" after that point
Plus you have plenty of counterfeited ones and you have no idea until you open them
You can buy a charger that looks almost or even exactly the same as the original and find a life threatening mess inside.
And almost every generic one is something crazy, what cannot pass not just EMC but basic safety rules

Simple solution, regulate imports. Why the hell do we accept all this crap from china? duty tax the crap out of it and start testing devices and banning the shit. In the UK getting trading standards to look at something is impossible and you only here of them trying to track down stock after it caused a fire.

[Simon]

Have any of these adapters been properly EMC tested? I don't know what the standards would have done but I would hope you put a range of loads on the adapter. If they are passing tests but causing an issue well then legally everyone is in the clear and the legislators need to go and have another think about how to deal with it.

I know for a fact that Apple’s earliest USB chargers, the ones sold for iPods, could cause touchscreen problems on the iPhone, which is why Apple released a new iPhone USB Charger with the iPhone. All of them are absolutely EMC tested and don’t really spare any expenses inside.

(For what it’s worth, I think I used the iPod charger on my iPhone without issue, but it’s been 15 years so don’t hold me to it!!)

Something seriously wrong there, tested or not, wasn't there a recall of laptop charger due to people getting shocks off the earth pins. No point in companies using compatibility as an excuse to sell shit when it is just shit and dangerous shit at that.

[Berni]

It is required for these imported products to have a CE mark.

The problem is that anyone can just slap a CE on it and they don't get in any trouble unless shit really hits the fan that those products are burning down houses, so they show up demanding to see the paperwork that shows this is CE compliant.

Everything is mace in China these days, even the big brand name stuff. But the brand has a name to uphold so they require there products to be made to a better quality level. The no brand stuff you find on AliExpress just has to be cheap to sell since everyone sorts by price.

I like buying cheap chinese crap because it is so cheap. I just do a bit of research on the stuff i buy to make sure it is not terrible and sometimes open it up to check if there is anything really wrong about it. I know i am buying crap, so i set my expectations accordingly.

[eugene]

Ha!!
https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/17/23171402/universal-charger-standard-usbc-bernie-sanders-markey-elizabeth-warren

[MadScientist]

Not in UK -> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-61720276

Quote : UK will not copy EU demand for common charging cable

The U.K. is a standards taker not a maker. No one cares what they mandate these days.

[f4eru]

The US better makes sure to solve their fuckup in EV charging connectors....

[tooki]

Have any of these adapters been properly EMC tested? I don't know what the standards would have done but I would hope you put a range of loads on the adapter. If they are passing tests but causing an issue well then legally everyone is in the clear and the legislators need to go and have another think about how to deal with it.

I know for a fact that Apple’s earliest USB chargers, the ones sold for iPods, could cause touchscreen problems on the iPhone, which is why Apple released a new iPhone USB Charger with the iPhone. All of them are absolutely EMC tested and don’t really spare any expenses inside.

(For what it’s worth, I think I used the iPod charger on my iPhone without issue, but it’s been 15 years so don’t hold me to it!!)

Something seriously wrong there, tested or not, wasn't there a recall of laptop charger due to people getting shocks off the earth pins. No point in companies using compatibility as an excuse to sell shit when it is just shit and dangerous shit at that.

What are you talking about? The issue I’m referring to was one of it being just noisy enough to mess with the touchscreen. That’s not a build quality issue, and certainly not one of safety. Those chargers were still built to the highest safety standards (for real, because Apple doesn’t fuck around in that regard).

[eti]

You guys need to learn to stop multi-multi-multi-multi quoting messages in that nested fashion. It’s something that’s part of the arcane nature of ancient forum software, but it it HIDEOUSLY ugly and unreadable. From an aesthetic perspective it should have been ripped out of forum code many years ago.

Who on earth has the time to sit and read a quote inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote?!

Pedants quote that way. 🤦‍♂️

[Bud]

Finaly a useful post from user eti.

[eti]

Finaly a useful post from user eti.

 

I think you'll find there's more than a mere single useful one, but point taken 

[Kyle_from_somewhere]

That this warrants 10 pages of "government intervention is bad" "no it isn't" is amazing.

It's very simple, a lack of standardization causes trouble. Usually, industries settle on a standard themselves pretty quickly, but sometimes they don't, or they settle on an inadequate one. So sometimes this has to be regulated.

There's no point in going on about "uninformed bureaucrats" or whatever. Here in Europe, whenever something is regulated, it's in consultation with the industry experts. That's how healthy governance works.

Regulations aren't set in stone forever either. When the technology they're regulating changes, the regulations get updated to reflect the new situation. Very often regulations are written in terms of minimum standards that have to be met, not maximums. So if the EU mandates USB-C that only means connector type and basic pinout, perhaps the protocol for negotiating power delivery, and leaves the door open for supersets of the basic functionality.

I quite like government regulations. They stop people selling me a car where the kilometers the speedo measures are shorter or longer than anyone else's kilometers. I can buy a bike dynamo with complete confidence that at 15 kmh it's making half an amp at six volts, and equally confident that any lights I buy will match. If I want to go buy a loaf of bread, I'm safe in the knowledge that putting sawdust in the flour is forbidden. Particularly with food, letting the free market self-regulate results in a lot of poisoned people for a very long time before that self-regulation kicks in.

Good governance is excellent.

[PlainName]

It's very simple, a lack of standardization causes trouble.

Mostly, but you can have too much regulation. This USB-C thing is an example: how can you have something like a magsafe connector if you can only provide USB-C? Perhaps there is an exception in the regulations, but if you follow the 'standardization is good' completely then there wouldn't be.

As with most things, there needs to be moderation.

[Monkeh]

how can you have something like a magsafe connector if you can only provide USB-C?

Simple: You can read the proposal and realise you may have both, but you must have USB-C.

[PlainName]

Maybe you should read beyond the first line and take in the intent of a post before jerk commenting.

[Monkeh]

Maybe you should read beyond the first line and take in the intent of a post before jerk commenting.

Apologies, I read into that the oft-repeated ignorance seen in this thread. Let it stand as a direction for others, rather than to yourself.

[Kyle_from_somewhere]

Then since the regulation demands USB-C but doesn't prohibit another port alongside, the example is hypothetical.

I notice that a lot of the time when people want to justify their position that they resort to hypothetical scenarios. The problem with that is that hypothetical scenarios are imaginary, they're a daydream. Everyone can imagine themselves a story where all their beliefs are true and all their opponents look dumb. Real world results are the only thing that matters.

[VK3DRB]

You guys need to learn to stop multi-multi-multi-multi quoting messages in that nested fashion. It’s something that’s part of the arcane nature of ancient forum software, but it it HIDEOUSLY ugly and unreadable.

Not ugly nor unreadable to someone who is blind. But some visually challenged people wearing glasses might find it unreadable.

From an aesthetic perspective it should have been ripped out of forum code many years ago.

Some people might get their jollies reading quotes. Qualified quacks quickly quietly quit quoting when quotes are quite quarrelsome.

Who on earth has the time to sit and read a quote inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote?!

You think those sitting up in the space station have the time?

Pedants quote that way. 🤦‍♂️

Please provide the statistical data to support your claims. I want a full breakdown of the data, including country, age, gender, profession and IQ.

Joking aside , I have never had a problem with it, although I have seen forums with images and videos repeated in quotes which is little over the top. Bytes are cheap these days.

[NiHaoMike]

If I want to go buy a loaf of bread, I'm safe in the knowledge that putting sawdust in the flour is forbidden.

Not in the US.
https://foodbabe.com/are-you-eating-this-substance-that-lines-food-industry-pockets/

[Kyle_from_somewhere]

America and good governance are two ships that passed in the night.