The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

[Monkeh]

Evidently, all attempts to explain to you that charging ports are already standardized has not hit home.

They are not. There are at least three in circulation from major vendors and more legacy types in less reputable products, and absolutely no standardisation of protocol for rapid charging.

Except, well, soon there will be. You're welcome.

[PlainName]

Dashcams and GPS commonly use mini-B connectors. I think they're still used, over micro-B, because the ID pin can be used to tell them when to power down (or up, as the case may be).

[Kyle_from_somewhere]

Sure, there are cases where it makes sense. Some people might point at monopolies, but I would argue that monopolies are a distinct example of a free market ailing, so regulations might be put into place to restore its health. I understand that I'm expressing something of a ideology here, that a free market is always the best system provided it is allowed to be healthy and flourish.

What is meant by allowing it to "be healthy and flourish"? Who does the allowing?

I relayed the regulation to a friend that hadn't heard about it. Their immediate response was that they think it's a good idea. They then proceeded to list all the reasons they prefer USB C over micro-B. But when asked if they thought a law should be passed requiring it on every product with a charging port, they admitted that a law doesn't make sense.

That doesn't mean anything. You found a person who'd never heard of it and had no opinion, and for the duration of that encounter you were their only source of information. They only heard about it filtered through your views. So obviously they're likely to agree with you, because you have the total monopoly on ideas in that situation. There is no room to do anything else.

You can do that to anyone who's unfamiliar with a given subject.

[Monkeh]

Dashcams and GPS commonly use mini-B connectors. I think they're still used, over micro-B, because the ID pin can be used to tell them when to power down (or up, as the case may be).

Micro-B has the same ID pin.

[PlainName]

Duh! I'm thinking of the A 

There must be some reason though. Even fairly recent Garmins use the mini over micro.

[Monkeh]

I can think of several possibilities, each more jaded than the last. Perhaps just that mini is harder for users to damage - it falls out easily to begin with..

[eugene]

Evidently, all attempts to explain to you that charging ports are already standardized has not hit home.

They are not. There are at least three in circulation from major vendors and more legacy types in less reputable products, and absolutely no standardisation of protocol for rapid charging.

Yet still no actual examples sited. As far as I know (because no help has been offered despite multiple requests) I must conclude that no actual examples exist.

[eugene]

Sure, there are cases where it makes sense. Some people might point at monopolies, but I would argue that monopolies are a distinct example of a free market ailing, so regulations might be put into place to restore its health. I understand that I'm expressing something of a ideology here, that a free market is always the best system provided it is allowed to be healthy and flourish.

What is meant by allowing it to "be healthy and flourish"? Who does the allowing?

Sorry, I thought that was obvious. The people that do the allowing are all of the people that do not specifically inhibit it.

It's that simple.

I relayed the regulation to a friend that hadn't heard about it. Their immediate response was that they think it's a good idea. They then proceeded to list all the reasons they prefer USB C over micro-B. But when asked if they thought a law should be passed requiring it on every product with a charging port, they admitted that a law doesn't make sense.

That doesn't mean anything. You found a person who'd never heard of it and had no opinion, and for the duration of that encounter you were their only source of information. They only heard about it filtered through your views. So obviously they're likely to agree with you, because you have the total monopoly on ideas in that situation. There is no room to do anything else.

You can do that to anyone who's unfamiliar with a given subject.

I offered an example of a person who's knee-jerk reaction was was "I like USB C, so it's a good idea" before they actually thought about the consequences. It's just an example. But you are right; it's easy to find examples of many things.

Now how about those examples of battery powered devices with proprietary connectors that you want to charge in your car. I'm still waiting for those.

[eugene]

Duh! I'm thinking of the A 

There must be some reason though. Even fairly recent Garmins use the mini over micro.

So vote with your money and buy a TomTom!

[Monkeh]

Evidently, all attempts to explain to you that charging ports are already standardized has not hit home.

They are not. There are at least three in circulation from major vendors and more legacy types in less reputable products, and absolutely no standardisation of protocol for rapid charging.

Yet still no actual examples sited. As far as I know (because no help has been offered despite multiple requests) I must conclude that no actual examples exist.

Amusing. What do you want me to cite (not site) here? The three common types which indicate no single accepted standard? You know what they are. The different charging protocols? Do your own research there.

[PlainName]

So vote with your money and buy a TomTom!

Never. I'd rather stir boiling fat with my .. appendage.

TomTom are shysters. I've purchased their phone app and not been able to use it - complete waste of money. My partner has a satnav with lifetime updates that is obsolete and not updated.

From a moral viewpoint, they were so bad at abusing GPL'd code that they got sued and had to make a significant (monetary) contribution to the cause. Not many companies have pushed things that far.

[eugene]

Amusing. What do you want me to cite (not site) here? The three common types which indicate no single accepted standard? You know what they are. The different charging protocols? Do your own research there.

OK, so it's a puzzle. There are exactly three different connectors. I have listed two of them repeatedly: USB micro-B and USB C. You're saying there's a third and you want me to determine what it is. I can guess either mini-B or that Apple shit. If you mean mini-B, then I will argue that it is an accepted standard that is dying a natural death as it should and as most standards do eventually without governmental intervention. You might say it's not an accepted standard, I say it is. Whatever. There can be more than one standard so long as everyone knows the difference.

If you're talking about the jack on iPhones, then I agree that it's not an accepted standard, at least not accepted by me, but I still say it's between Apple customers and Apple. In fact, if the real problem here is with Apple using a proprietary connector, then I wish everyone that feels that way would just say so. Open the window wide, stick your head out, and shout "I don't want that connector on my Apple phone and I'm not going to take it anymore!" One can say the name out loud in public without fear. Don't complain to your parents or the government in hopes that they'll make things better. Go stand up to the bully and tell them what you want. I don't really think this is all about Apple, but then I don't really know.

In any case, do we agree that the only proprietary connector out there is on Apple phones?

[Kyle_from_somewhere]

Sorry, I thought that was obvious. The people that do the allowing are all of the people that do not specifically inhibit it.

It's that simple.

Then who are the ones who inhibit it and how do they do that? You're speaking in nebulous terms.

I offered an example of a person who's knee-jerk reaction was was "I like USB C, so it's a good idea" before they actually thought about the consequences. It's just an example. But you are right; it's easy to find examples of many things.

You offered the example of someone who's only heard what you think of it and nothing else, who then repeated it back to you.

Now how about those examples of battery powered devices with proprietary connectors that you want to charge in your car. I'm still waiting for those.

I don't own a car. But if I did own one, I'd probably want to charge my iPhone in there, which has a lightning connector. The lightning connector is rubbish and I'd like an iPhone with usb-c, but that mysterious "free market" thing that's unexplained but also apparently meaningful hasn't provided one.

[Monkeh]

In any case, do we agree that the only proprietary connector out there is on Apple phones?

Possibly. However, I never mentioned proprietary connectors to begin with.

[eugene]

Folks, I'm sorry that it took me so long to catch on. This is all about iPhones. I didn't see it because, for some reason, nobody has had the balls to to say out loud what the problem is. I apologize for taking up so much of your time.

So please, do whatever it takes to get the fearsome giant to put a fucking USB C connector on your next phone. I don't blame or judge.

[tszaboo]

Folks, I'm sorry that it took me so long to catch on. This is all about iPhones. I didn't see it because, for some reason, nobody has had the balls to to say out loud what the problem is. I apologize for taking up so much of your time.

So please, do whatever it takes to get the fearsome giant to put a fucking USB C connector on your next phone. I don't blame or judge.

It's not. Can't you read? "portable devices"

[SilverSolder]

Duh! I'm thinking of the A 

There must be some reason though. Even fairly recent Garmins use the mini over micro.

I just got a brand new Garmin and was surprised to find Mini USB still alive and well....

[Zero999]

Polemic remarks aside, the problem is if USB-C is made mandatory, of course manufacturers could add another connector, if a better standard comes along, but they're still stuck with the having to have the old obsolete USB-C connector. Hopefully the law will be reviewed and updated, if necessary, top prevent this.

I don't see the problem. My Laptop can be charged with USB-C, which is also a Thunderbolt or the Lenovo specific charger.
I don't know how they do it, maybe they are using these new so-called dijodes to like switch where the power is coming from.
This is literally a non-issue.

At the moment no, but how about in 20 years time when a better standard is around which can charge the battery more quickly? You might not be so happy stuck with USB-C. Imagine if they had standardised on USB-B 10 years ago. You wouldn't be so happy then, having to have an extra useless connector, as well as the USB-C.

I don't own a car. But if I did own one, I'd probably want to charge my iPhone in there, which has a lightning connector. The lightning connector is rubbish and I'd like an iPhone with usb-c, but that mysterious "free market" thing that's unexplained but also apparently meaningful hasn't provided one.

Then you can buy this cheap thing called a USB cable, with a lightning connector on one end. In fact, it will probably come with the phone.

Folks, I'm sorry that it took me so long to catch on. This is all about iPhones. I didn't see it because, for some reason, nobody has had the balls to to say out loud what the problem is. I apologize for taking up so much of your time.

So please, do whatever it takes to get the fearsome giant to put a fucking USB C connector on your next phone. I don't blame or judge.

Of course this is about Apple, even though it's not explicitly stated in the legislation. I doubt the law would exist, if it wasn't for Apple's crappy connector.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
 for some reason, nobody has had the balls to to say out loud what the problem is [Apple] [...]

There are so many fans of Apple that the discussion often degenerates to slanging matches even for totally reasonable criticism of their practices.

Let's not get started on the subject of planned obsolescence...   but Apple isn't the only big tech corporation that has been tempted by the forbidden fruit, one way or the other.

[MadScientist]

And i understand how most users that has a certain flag can not like it, it's just not in their DNA
US: throw a bunch of standards and let the market - or rather the biggest corporation - decide
EU: pick a standard and mandate it - possibly not choosing the best standard
sure it's because i was born and raised in the EU but i prefer how we do things around here

You have to understand that this country was founded by a bunch of people that escaped overbearing oppressive governments specifically to found a new nation based on freedom from this sort of thing, individual choice and minimal regulation. It's far from perfect but it's something a great many of us hold dear and a fundamental component of our culture. I *hate* being told what to do and dealing with regulations and mandates, it feels like being treated like a small child incapable of making my own choices and there are few things that I find more oppressive and frustrating. I guess maybe someone that had always lived under a government that controls so many aspects of their life wouldn't understand, I don't know. Even my own government feels rather oppressive and mired in rules and regulations these days that I almost wish there was somewhere else to go and get away from it. I understand the need for some rules for things like protecting the environment, rules are a necessary evil but they ARE evil and I hate them.

And ended up creating yet another oppressive and over bearing government !!

[MadScientist]

anyway the EU micro C law is welcome if not just to force apple to tow the line

[langwadt]

Duh! I'm thinking of the A 

There must be some reason though. Even fairly recent Garmins use the mini over micro.

I just got a brand new Garmin and was surprised to find Mini USB still alive and well....

I'm not sure "alive and well" is what it is, it is discouraged but still allowed by USB-IF

I suspect Garmin stick to it because there is a crapton of old holders out there that have a mini-B charging cable

[tooki]

Of course this is about Apple, even though it's not explicitly stated in the legislation. I doubt the law would exist, if it wasn't for Apple's crappy connector.

The Lightning connector has proven to be a great connector, and it was introduced years before USB-C to enable capabilities micro-USB couldn’t. If Apple had switched to USB-C right away, people would have lambasted them for abandoning Lightning so quickly. Apple can do no right: no matter what they do, someone attacks them for it, because there’s always been this segment of the population that has an uncontrollable need to hate on them.

Bear in mind also that the other end of a Lightning cable is a standard USB plug. The original EU rule was supposed to reduce excess chargers (which lightning remained compatible with) and cables (which I always thought was a dumb rule, because I’ve always needed more cables than chargers anyway and thus had to buy extras). So switching to Lightning didn’t actually undermine their goals.

With that said, Lightning is now almost a decade old, and I think it’d be ok to move to USB-C.

[MadScientist]

Of course this is about Apple, even though it's not explicitly stated in the legislation. I doubt the law would exist, if it wasn't for Apple's crappy connector.

The Lightning connector has proven to be a great connector, and it was introduced years before USB-C to enable capabilities micro-USB couldn’t. If Apple had switched to USB-C right away, people would have lambasted them for abandoning Lightning so quickly. Apple can do no right: no matter what they do, someone attacks them for it, because there’s always been this segment of the population that has an uncontrollable need to hate on them.

Bear in mind also that the other end of a Lightning cable is a standard USB plug. The original EU rule was supposed to reduce excess chargers (which lightning remained compatible with) and cables (which I always thought was a dumb rule, because I’ve always needed more cables than chargers anyway and thus had to buy extras). So switching to Lightning didn’t actually undermine their goals.

With that said, Lightning is now almost a decade old, and I think it’d be ok to move to USB-C.

Irrespective of its technical merits , my view is lightening was an unreliable connector easily as bad as the Apple junk older connector. My drawer full of apple cables testifies to this and issues with the device socket as well.

[tooki]

Apple’s early Lightning cables were awful (like all Apple cables of that era other than AC power cords) because it was during their first forays into PVC-free cables. The newer ones, mercifully, are infinitely better.

As for the sockets, that doesn’t agree with my experience. Far and away the biggest problem with Lightning sockets is how lint gets packed into them. The tolerances are quite small so it doesn’t take much to make the connector unreliable. Pocket lint gets into the socket, and then the next time a plug is inserted, it packs the lint inside. After a year or two, enough can accumulate to prevent reliable mating. Luckily the solution is easy: use a toothpick or paper clip to carefully scrape out the lint.