The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

[tooki]

I honestly doubt Apple will eliminate USB on the iPhone any time soon. It’s not just a charging port after all. In addition to wired headsets, it’s used for accessories (like memory card readers, audio interfaces, thermal imaging cameras, and video output adapters), automotive connectivity, and device servicing. Yes, many of those can be done wirelessly (and are done wirelessly already), but not all.

[tom66]

A port-less iPhone would be a disaster.  You could only charge it wirelessly, so forget about being able to charge it in your pocket on a power bank, or in some random office somewhere.  It would be a commercially brainless decision.  I never agreed with the headphone jack removal, because it seemed trivial, but ultimately I've never found a need for a headphone jack since getting Bluetooth headphones (and their battery life is great: easily 100 hours, so with my usage profile, they get charged once a month.)

[PlainName]

They already [took away] the headphone jack

Before that, the floppy disk just as 3.5" was becoming ubiquitous. Then the CD, just as people couldn't imagine not having a CD drive.

[Berni]

I honestly doubt Apple will eliminate USB on the iPhone any time soon. It’s not just a charging port after all. In addition to wired headsets, it’s used for accessories (like memory card readers, audio interfaces, thermal imaging cameras, and video output adapters), automotive connectivity, and device servicing. Yes, many of those can be done wirelessly (and are done wirelessly already), but not all.

Perhaps with Android where you can plug in any USB thing and it just works.

When it comes to iPhones the selection of lightning accessories is not very broad. Most used is for charging, but apples website is already selling all sorts of wireless charging accesories, from desk chargers to car mounts etc... Yes there is the lightning to 3.5mm headphone jack adapter but most iPhone users probably want to be seen with trendy AirPods anyway. When it comes to SD cards the software doesn't actually let you browse it but instead just import all the photos from the card into the phone and similar. When it comes to USB host adapter cables it similarly only supports importing certain types of data and that is it, in a lot of cases read only too. When it comes to video output the lightning connector is so slow that it needs video compressed into mpeg or h264 or something, sent over the cable, then decoded back into video by a CPU (that is actually a older model Iphone SOC) in the dongle to create the video output. As for thermal cameras... most iPhone users probably don't even know what that is, they will tell you they can make the same thing using a colorful Instagram filter.

Yes removing the USB port would be a colossally dumb idea, but they are the same company that came up with things like no SD card sockets, no headphone jacks, no filesystem, having only a single button that just takes you home..etc and still selling the product like hot cakes.

[tooki]

They already [took away] the headphone jack

Before that, the floppy disk just as 3.5" was becoming ubiquitous.

What? No, the 3.5” floppy had become ubiquitous by the end of the 1980s. Apple started to get rid of it in 1998, when the 3.5” floppy was already problematically small for modern uses.

[tooki]

I honestly doubt Apple will eliminate USB on the iPhone any time soon. It’s not just a charging port after all. In addition to wired headsets, it’s used for accessories (like memory card readers, audio interfaces, thermal imaging cameras, and video output adapters), automotive connectivity, and device servicing. Yes, many of those can be done wirelessly (and are done wirelessly already), but not all.

Perhaps with Android where you can plug in any USB thing and it just works.

I’m not discussing Android phones. Irrelevant here.

When it comes to iPhones the selection of lightning accessories is not very broad.

I listed actual Lightning accessory types and uses beyond charging.

Most used is for charging, but apples website is already selling all sorts of wireless charging accesories, from desk chargers to car mounts etc...

Uh huh. And?

Yes there is the lightning to 3.5mm headphone jack adapter but most iPhone users probably want to be seen with trendy AirPods anyway.

Despite what Apple haters say, few people choose Apple products simply “to be seen” with “trendy” things. They buy them because they work well for them.

When it comes to SD cards the software doesn't actually let you browse it but instead just import all the photos from the card into the phone and similar. When it comes to USB host adapter cables it similarly only supports importing certain types of data and that is it, in a lot of cases read only too. When it comes to video output the lightning connector is so slow that it needs video compressed into mpeg or h264 or something, sent over the cable, then decoded back into video by a CPU (that is actually a older model Iphone SOC) in the dongle to create the video output.

Your point? I didn’t say it was a full-fledged USB port.

As for thermal cameras... most iPhone users probably don't even know what that is, they will tell you they can make the same thing using a colorful Instagram filter.

That’s true, insofar as most humans don’t know what a thermal camera is, regardless of what phone type they use.

Yes removing the USB port would be a colossally dumb idea, but they are the same company that came up with things like no SD card sockets, no headphone jacks, no filesystem, having only a single button that just takes you home..etc and still selling the product like hot cakes.

Of those, the headphone jack is the only one I consider problematic in any way. The product sells like hotcakes because it’s a good product that works well for its users.

The entire point of the home button (which most models now don’t even have) was to always take you to the home screen. Perfectly logical and sensible. No iPhone ever made has only had a single button: all models have had hardware volume controls, sleep/wake button, and mute switch.

[JPortici]

The entire point of the home button (which most models now don’t even have) was to always take you to the home screen. Perfectly logical and sensible. No iPhone ever made has only had a single button: all models have had hardware volume controls, sleep/wake button, and mute switch.

you know what he meant. Us android users have three buttons on the screen (which used to be physical there as well) and they work in a certain way. It's more logical to me and i get frustrated every time i use an iphone for app development. In fact i find many ui and ux choices frustrating, but that's me. Thankfully i can choose not to use an iphone, and i am aware that for many people i it's the exact opposite

[Berni]

Android vs iPhone is mostly a matter of taste, probably best to leave that for another thread.

Android still has the 3 front buttons that they had from the beginning (tho the context menu button changed roles into a multitask button) but they have moved from being physical buttons into being touch buttons due to phones being all screen now. They stay there all the time and only move out of the way in full screen modes to give you more screen area for watching videos and the like. For my personal taste i like the extra buttons that stay in the same spot rather then having every app handle going back differently. Tho my iOS experience is from an iPad but it can't be that much different from an iPhone.

My point with the Lightning port is that 95% of users have likely only ever used it for charging the phone, something that these days can easily be done wirelessly too. Especially since iPhones didn't have the fastest charging speeds over USB so they are easier to recreate in wireless charging. Not that i personally want the insane speed 120W charging that some Android phones can do (i charge it slow over night anyway and this speed can't be good for the battery) but a lot of people seam to care about charging speed a lot.

These products are unfortunately made for the average joe user, so this is where the design focuses on, not the rarer power users. Same reason why Win 10/11 is taking these questionable design choices.

[tooki]

If the EU actually cares about the environment, then they should be banning wireless charging, not non-USB-C ports. One could also argue they should ban fast charging since it creates more e-waste by wearing out the battery faster. (I’m not suggesting they actually do this, just calling out the hypocrisy of the mandate.)

Anyhow, 20W USB-C-to-Lightning and 15W MagSafe charging are already faster than I like for routine charging. iPhones do 7.5W Qi charging and roughly similar USB-A-to-Lightning charging. I use a 5W USB charger whenever I’m not in a hurry.

[Berni]

The EU does care about the environment and a lot of things, the problem is that the people who make the decisions don't seam to understand technology all that well. So some of these laws are dumb or incomplete. They also take a while to actually get them trough so the laws might come into affect once a given technology has already proliferated everywhere.

I also use slow 5W charging on purpose and i don't have a phone that supports wireless charging anyway. But i would likely use wireless if i had the option. I always leave my phone in the same spot overnight to charge, so wireless would save me having to plug it in every night. But i still want to keep my USB and 3.5mm jack

The phone manufacturers already stopped including chargers in the box for saving the environment, but they actually did it to save money. It is one way to save waste, but at the same time people are going to instead buy the horrible bottom of the barrel chinese chargers that electrocute people and catch fire. I like having multiple chargers laying around while some people might want the fast charging that the old charger can't do. Not all solutions are black and white.

The thing that did the most good for the environment around this is splitting the charger and USB cable. That way you can use the same cable with a computer or charger. The thing that dies is often the cable (especially the fancy sleek apple ones in my experience) so if that happens the cable can be replaced and charger reused. It also means that when USB-C replaced microUSB the same chargers could still be used. Tho i am guessing what drove this change was that a female USB-A connector was cheaper than 1.5m of cable with a microUSB on the end.

[tooki]

The EU does care about the environment and a lot of things, the problem is that the people who make the decisions don't seam to understand technology all that well. So some of these laws are dumb or incomplete.

Completely agree. Many dumb laws are passed with the best of intentions. But because the lawmakers aren’t subject matter experts, and evidently do not actually defer to subject matter experts enough, they end up passing dumb laws because they want to be seen as doing something. :/

The phone manufacturers already stopped including chargers in the box for saving the environment, but they actually did it to save money. It is one way to save waste, but at the same time people are going to instead buy the horrible bottom of the barrel chinese chargers that electrocute people and catch fire. I like having multiple chargers laying around while some people might want the fast charging that the old charger can't do. Not all solutions are black and white.

That is a really good point. You and I know to avoid Chinese garbage, but so many consumers don’t. (And shouldn’t have to.)

The thing that did the most good for the environment around this is splitting the charger and USB cable. That way you can use the same cable with a computer or charger. The thing that dies is often the cable (especially the fancy sleek apple ones in my experience) so if that happens the cable can be replaced and charger reused. It also means that when USB-C replaced microUSB the same chargers could still be used. Tho i am guessing what drove this change was that a female USB-A connector was cheaper than 1.5m of cable with a microUSB on the end.

Yes, permanently attached cords are the devil! Separating the charger from the cord has probably prevented HUGE amounts of e-waste.

I agree that Apple’s USB to Lightning (and before that, 30-pin dock connector) cords have never been the most robust. But for what it’s worth, their more recent ones have been a lot better. The early ones (2001-2008ish) weren’t too bad. Then they switched to their first-generation PVC-free insulation, and that stuff proved to be awful: it gets somewhat brittle, but the real problem is that it somehow extends longitudinally, until it bursts into shreds. Then around maybe 2015 or so they switched to some other PVC-free material and those seem to be holding up fairly well. They aren’t as robust as the best third-party cables (like Anker), but they’re also a whole lot thinner, which is handy for travel.

What I am delighted about is the USB-C–based MagSafe on recent MacBooks, using detachable cords.

[SilverSolder]

The EU does care about the environment and a lot of things, the problem is that the people who make the decisions don't seam to understand technology all that well. So some of these laws are dumb or incomplete. They also take a while to actually get them trough so the laws might come into affect once a given technology has already proliferated everywhere.

I also use slow 5W charging on purpose and i don't have a phone that supports wireless charging anyway. But i would likely use wireless if i had the option. I always leave my phone in the same spot overnight to charge, so wireless would save me having to plug it in every night. But i still want to keep my USB and 3.5mm jack

The phone manufacturers already stopped including chargers in the box for saving the environment, but they actually did it to save money. It is one way to save waste, but at the same time people are going to instead buy the horrible bottom of the barrel chinese chargers that electrocute people and catch fire. I like having multiple chargers laying around while some people might want the fast charging that the old charger can't do. Not all solutions are black and white.

The thing that did the most good for the environment around this is splitting the charger and USB cable. That way you can use the same cable with a computer or charger. The thing that dies is often the cable (especially the fancy sleek apple ones in my experience) so if that happens the cable can be replaced and charger reused. It also means that when USB-C replaced microUSB the same chargers could still be used. Tho i am guessing what drove this change was that a female USB-A connector was cheaper than 1.5m of cable with a microUSB on the end.

Wireless charging has never worked well for me, I went back to wired charging after several attempts.

Standardising on USB-C is OK with me.  I have plenty of USB-C to Mini-USB adapters to keep older equipment fed.

[PlainName]

USB-C seems to attract and accumulate fluff (and, er, stuff) that mini and micro didin't. Periodically I have to root around in the connector with a very fine point to remove compacted layers that prevent the plug being pushed fully home.

[Monkeh]

Eh, I've had to blow the muck out of micro USB connectors for years too, haven't really noticed too much difference there.

Don't think it makes much difference how far you insert mini, it'll fall out again promptly. I swear that connector will defy gravity to fall out upwards.

[PlainName]

This isn't blowable. It confused me because I thought it was the back of the connector - it is really compacted very well and takes some effort to dig out. The only reason I realised it wasn't part of the connector plastic was because the plug obviously didn't go right the way in, leaving about half a mm gap.

[eti]

+10,000 to Apple for plug and socket design, as I have maintained for years:

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/eckp0n/extraodinarily_unpopular_opinion_lightning_is/

USB-C is flimsy folded metal crap, with no retention latch. Lightning plugs are made of SOLID STEEL, machined out to fit the insulator and contact carrier, and has a dimple on each narrow side where the retention mechanism (ball bearings under spring pressure, from the sides of the socket, I believe) engages.

The USB-C bods could AT THE LEAST have made a better physical design! Also, why didn't they implement a STRICT usage & licencing scheme like Apple's "MFI" ("Made For iPhone") scheme? USB-C is a heap of crap, not least for the fact that picking a cable is a lottery; hope you don't want your stuff catching on fire, or having data stolen!!

[Black Phoenix]

+10,000 to Apple for plug and socket design, as I have maintained for years:

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/eckp0n/extraodinarily_unpopular_opinion_lightning_is/

USB-C is flimsy folded metal crap, with no retention latch. Lightning plugs are made of SOLID STEEL, machined out to fit the insulator and contact carrier, and has a dimple on each narrow side where the retention mechanism (ball bearings under spring pressure, from the sides of the socket, I believe) engages.

The USB-C bods could AT THE LEAST have made a better physical design! Also, why didn't they implement a STRICT usage & licencing scheme like Apple's "MFI" ("Made For iPhone") scheme? USB-C is a heap of crap, not least for the fact that picking a cable is a lottery; hope you don't want your stuff catching on fire, or having data stolen!!

Uhmm hummm:

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/10/09/apples-lightning-authentication-already-cracked/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/bj34z5/why-counterfeit-lightning-cables-kill-iphones-cheap-iphone-chargers

Testers/readers/writers for MFI cables chip:



Tips sold by the hundreds to manufacturer fake cables:


And I can guarantee that those tips are not machined.

[eti]

+10,000 to Apple for plug and socket design, as I have maintained for years:

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/eckp0n/extraodinarily_unpopular_opinion_lightning_is/

USB-C is flimsy folded metal crap, with no retention latch. Lightning plugs are made of SOLID STEEL, machined out to fit the insulator and contact carrier, and has a dimple on each narrow side where the retention mechanism (ball bearings under spring pressure, from the sides of the socket, I believe) engages.

The USB-C bods could AT THE LEAST have made a better physical design! Also, why didn't they implement a STRICT usage & licencing scheme like Apple's "MFI" ("Made For iPhone") scheme? USB-C is a heap of crap, not least for the fact that picking a cable is a lottery; hope you don't want your stuff catching on fire, or having data stolen!!

Uhmm hummm:

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/10/09/apples-lightning-authentication-already-cracked/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/bj34z5/why-counterfeit-lightning-cables-kill-iphones-cheap-iphone-chargers

Testers/readers/writers for MFI cables chip:



Tips sold by the hundreds to manufacturer fake cables:


And I can guarantee that those tips are not machined.

Apple will merely update iOS and kick out the iffy MFI chips. You’re talking about a company that has designed and manufactured their own silicon for many years, the latest iterations of which blow Intel out of the water. I can’t imagine a few knock off MFI chips being much of a challenge to such a brain tank behemoth.

Regardless of this, it was clear I’m referring the the genuine design and manufactured plugs and sockets, and the overall thought put into their design and robustness. USB-C is an embarrassing joke, physically AND with the endless slew of idiotic, confusing variants.

[Black Phoenix]

Apple will merely update iOS and kick out the iffy MFI chips. You’re talking about a company that has designed and manufactured their own silicon for many years, the latest iterations of which blow Intel out of the water. I can’t imagine a few knock off MFI chips being much of a challenge to such a brain tank behemoth.

Uhmmm hummm, the first news is from 2012, when it was cracked. It really takes a lot of years for Apple to block this knockoffs...

OK I feed you enough. Back to my ignore list.

[eti]

Apple will merely update iOS and kick out the iffy MFI chips. You’re talking about a company that has designed and manufactured their own silicon for many years, the latest iterations of which blow Intel out of the water. I can’t imagine a few knock off MFI chips being much of a challenge to such a brain tank behemoth.

Uhmmm hummm, the first news is from 2012, when it was cracked. It really takes a lot of years for Apple to block this knockoffs...

OK I feed you enough. Back to my ignore list.

Don’t tell me, tell Apple. 😁

[SilverSolder]

USB-C seems to attract and accumulate fluff (and, er, stuff) that mini and micro didin't. Periodically I have to root around in the connector with a very fine point to remove compacted layers that prevent the plug being pushed fully home.

The Samsung S5 has a little cover that you have to fiddle with when using the port.  -  on the upside, it has never clogged with lint etc.

[PlainName]

Wonder why it affects USB-C and not micro or mini (it's not just me - I had a replacement socket on order before I found other affected users on t'web and decided to really excavate the socket). Possibly the larger opening acts as a funnel for the smaller internals.

A plus point, though, is it seems the cable tends to wear before the socket. I have two almost identical cables from the same manufacturer, the only difference being the length. I typically use the same one all the time to charge my phone, and sometimes it takes longer than expected to charge. For instance, just now it was achieving 1.2A. But the other cable is always at full rate (just now 2.0A).

[ataradov]

So, it does not appear that apple found a way around it - https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/26/23423977/iphone-usb-c-eu-law-joswiak-confirms-compliance-lightning

Now all apple fanboys will have to find a way to explain that USB-C is now good because apple won't use bad stuff.

[Monkeh]

Funny, I'm sure he just said exactly what I said months ago.

[PlainName]

USB-C on iPhone won't ever happen. Print this out and take it to the bank, cash it when I'm shown to be right. I know Apple inside out.

Damn. Looks like that's gone the way of the rest of the economy too.