Author Topic: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature  (Read 4173 times)

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Offline Black PhoenixTopic starter

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The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« on: April 28, 2023, 12:16:57 pm »
https://slate.com/business/2023/04/cars-buttons-touchscreens-vw-porsche-nissan-hyundai.html

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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens. Buttons are back!

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You don’t see a lot of good news about road safety in the United States. Unlike in most peer countries, American roadway deaths surged during the pandemic and have barely receded since. Pedestrian and cyclist fatalities recently hit their highest levels in 40 years, but U.S. transportation officials continue to ignore key contributing factors. In a February interview with Fast Company, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said that “further research” is needed before addressing the obvious risks that oversized SUVs and trucks pose to those not inside of them.

Happily, there is one area where we are making at least marginal progress: A growing number of automakers are backpedaling away from the huge, complex touchscreens that have infested dashboard design over the past 15 years. Buttons and knobs are coming back.

The touchscreen pullback is the result of consumer backlash, not the enactment of overdue regulations or an awakening of corporate responsibility. Many drivers want buttons, not screens, and they’ve given carmakers an earful about it. Auto executives have long brushed aside safety concerns about their complex displays—and all signs suggest they would have happily kept doing so. But their customers are revolting, which has forced them to pay attention.

Finally, it took their sweet time. I know that this is a issue who (including me) pisses me off. Nothing beats a button that I can press or a knob I can actuate without taking the eyes from the road.

Now let's address the oversize and size creep of Trucks and SUVs each new release...
 
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Offline JPortici

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2023, 01:06:58 pm »
What??
i though it was because carmakers can't get enough electronics to build the car.
Mercedes and peugeot had to remove led headlights ( :-DD ) and full screen dashboards from some catalogs to go back to halogen and needles
 
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Offline wilfred

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2023, 01:57:26 pm »
I drive older cars and I hate to think what will happen to a car if you break the screen or the electronics fail after spare parts are no longer readily available. You can't rely on the used one being any better and they'll be expensive. So many cars will have another expensive repair that relegates them to the scrap.

I particularly don't like headlights that cost a thousand dollars to repair/replace when I can just buy a bulb for  $50. It makes insurance premiums that much higher too when even a minor accident can irreparably damage one.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2023, 02:47:55 pm »
  I'm convinced that there would be a large market for cars and trucks that use simple standard parts such as headlights, taillights, standalone radios with knobs, standard size wheels and tires, etc instead of all of the expensive gimmickry that ties everything back to one central on-board computer and that are unique only that model car and that costs a small fortune to replace. A single replacement headlamp now cost over $1000 in many late model cars and some of the odd size tires are nearly as much. 

 Some of the auto manufacturers need to start building a modern and affordable People's Car instead of building a bunch of overly priced, impracticable car models that look like they were designed by some avant-garde Italian designer!
 

Offline woody

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2023, 02:53:43 pm »
Yeah, driving a Tesla M3 for the last 4 years I can attest to the fact that touchscreens in cars to operate basic functions like wipers, temperature, fog lights et cetera is a stupid idea. The Tesla touchscreen is probably among the best but actual buttons that never move position are much better.

So good news that the buttons return. I will even swallow the price hike that will undoubtedly cause.

I will make a prediction though. It will not mean less accidents. In my country road accidents went down year after year, right up until 2013. Since then the number started increasing every year. It is not the cars that became unsafer since then. On the contrary, these get safer model after model. I blame the elephant in the room, the holy smartphone. But that is going to need its own thread  :)
 
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Offline Benta

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2023, 07:42:45 pm »
I blame the elephant in the room, the holy smartphone. But that is going to need its own thread  :)
A modern car *IS* a smartphone, it's just got wheels as well.
Rotary knobs and on/off switches can be operated without taking your eyes off the road. The best and most intuitive user interface ever invented.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2023, 09:09:45 pm by Benta »
 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2023, 07:52:55 pm »
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A modern car *IS* a smartphone, it's just got wheels as well.

Or as youtuber watch wes work put it "  Disposable iPods with wheels"
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2023, 07:56:33 pm »
The car is becoming obsolete anyway. You can just live in the matrix with zero carbon footprint! :-DD
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2023, 08:26:54 pm »
The car is becoming obsolete anyway. You can just live in the matrix with zero carbon footprint! :-DD


   The hell you say!  As long as there is gasoline I will be driving a car with an IC engine! 
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2023, 02:12:39 am »
  I'm convinced that there would be a large market for cars and trucks that use simple standard parts such as headlights, taillights, standalone radios with knobs, standard size wheels and tires, etc instead of all of the expensive gimmickry that ties everything back to one central on-board computer and that are unique only that model car and that costs a small fortune to replace. A single replacement headlamp now cost over $1000 in many late model cars and some of the odd size tires are nearly as much. 

 Some of the auto manufacturers need to start building a modern and affordable People's Car instead of building a bunch of overly priced, impracticable car models that look like they were designed by some avant-garde Italian designer!

I'm looking to replacing my car but I have never bought a brand new car. I am concerned about buying the car used with all the issues (and expense) modern complexity introduces without ever having gotten the benefits of it being shiny and new. I want cheap, comfortable and convenient. Whether enough people would buy a simpler car is another matter. How many will accept a basic smartphone? Not enough. Especially if they have an eye on resale value or handing it down to family. I doubt it's genetic.

Even My kettle can heat to a selected temperature and maintain it for 30minutes. I bought it because it was $5 but now I actually like it. Beeps are irritating but not so much to do something about it.
 

Online Halcyon

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2023, 04:10:35 am »
I particularly don't like headlights that cost a thousand dollars to repair/replace when I can just buy a bulb for  $50. It makes insurance premiums that much higher too when even a minor accident can irreparably damage one.

As someone who was "recently" involved in a crash in a European car (someone hit me up the rear at 40-50 km/hr), I can attest to the pain of trying to get parts from overseas.

The insurer (in their wisdom) decided to repair, instead of replace. The vehicle was insured for an agreed value of $63k and was less than 12 months old at the time of the crash, which meant it would have been covered under the insurers "new for old replacement" clause. Except that they didn't deem the vehicle as a total write-off (which they probably should have).

The repairs (parts + labour) came in at roughly about $40,000 whilst the entire time I didn't have my car, the insurer was paying for a hire car through Hertz. Let's be really conservative and assume the insurer has an agreement with the hire car company and they get a heavily discounted rate of $50/day. We're talking $19,000+ just to keep me on the road while they repaired my vehicle. Not to mention the $3000 they paid out to me as compensation because I lodged a complaint, not only for the time it took, but all the lost time I wasted chasing them for updates, arranging extensions on the hire car etc... The insurer really dropped the ball on this one and communication was appalling.

It took over 12 months to get my car back.

Fast forward a few months to now, and my car is back getting repaired. Turns out the wiring harness in the rear of the car was faulty, so the rear and cross traffic alert sensors stopped working. I'm sitting here now, 4 weeks later (with another hire car), waiting for more parts and for the problem to get resolved. Under my policy (which is fairly common here), all repairs are guaranteed for life (even if I sell the car). If anything that was repaired goes wrong or fails (through no fault of mine), it's covered for free, even if I (or the owner of the vehicle) doesn't have an active policy with that company.

The only saving grace in this story that the amount of repair work required meant that I basically got a brand new car back, and on visual inspection, the work looks great. Even the dealer admitted that had they not known the vehicle's history, they wouldn't have been able to tell that it was ever crashed (short of pulling data from the management system). Not a single panel is out of alignment and the paint matches perfectly (the benefit of having a white car). Secondly, as the crash wasn't my fault, I haven't had to pay a single cent out of my pocket.

In relation to my premium, my last renewal (even after the crash) was about $780 for the year. It's cheap as I elect to pay the maximum excess in the event of an at-fault crash. The poor bastard who hit me is up for $2700 in excess, plus whatever repair costs the insurer is pursuing him for. It's an expensive lesson to learn and why you should always keep your eyes on the road, and not your mobile phone. (Also the silly bugger had no insurance himself, so he is directly liable for costs of not only my claim, but repairing/replacing his own vehicle.)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 04:39:38 am by Halcyon »
 
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Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2023, 05:01:49 am »
I particularly don't like headlights that cost a thousand dollars to repair/replace when I can just buy a bulb for  $50. It makes insurance premiums that much higher too when even a minor accident can irreparably damage one.

As someone who was "recently" involved in a crash in a European car (someone hit me up the rear at 40-50 km/hr), I can attest to the pain of trying to get parts from overseas.

No excuse not to have at least 3rd party insurance in this day and age.
iratus parum formica
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2023, 05:06:44 am »
I drive older cars and I hate to think what will happen to a car if you break the screen or the electronics fail after spare parts are no longer readily available. You can't rely on the used one being any better and they'll be expensive. So many cars will have another expensive repair that relegates them to the scrap.

I particularly don't like headlights that cost a thousand dollars to repair/replace when I can just buy a bulb for  $50. It makes insurance premiums that much higher too when even a minor accident can irreparably damage one.

I could be wrong but as the world changes and does what I suspect it might do, these older car parts may invoke a local industry committed to supplying replacement parts with the garbage 'gutted-out'.

Watch as the car makers scream bloody blue murder at the law makers.
 :popcorn:
iratus parum formica
 

Online Psi

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2023, 05:07:25 am »
A touchscreen is nice for some car things, but yeah, buttons for all core functionality.
There is something magical about a car with switches and buttons everywhere that all illuminate at night, like the cockpit of an airplane.
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 
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Online Halcyon

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2023, 05:21:08 am »
A touchscreen is nice for some car things, but yeah, buttons for all core functionality.
There is something magical about a car with switches and buttons everywhere that all illuminate at night, like the cockpit of an airplane.

Perhaps it's just where I live, but I find most car dashboards/lights are waaaaay too bright. I usually turn them right down to minimum.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2023, 05:24:58 am »
I have no idea how touchscreens in cars were ever legal in the first place, they're a horrible idea, there is no way to safely use one, you have to take your eyes off the road.
 
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Offline JPortici

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2023, 05:25:09 am »
I can attest to the pain of trying to get parts from overseas.

No, it's not that. Replacement parts weren't available, period. There is still a one year wait time for a control unit replacement (any control unit) and headlights as they can't even fit the new cars with them.
Here in europe, the normal wait time for replacement goes from same day (smaller parts, belts, harnesses, things like that) to 5-10 days for complete engines, control units (also depending on the amount of paperwork required. Some replacements must be done at the dealer because e.g.: synchronization of the network that has to be authorized and that takes more time because of bureocracy)

If parts were available you would have had your car back within a month

I have no idea how touchscreens in cars were ever legal in the first place, they're a horrible idea, there is no way to safely use one, you have to take your eyes off the road.

renault used to block the touch screen while the engine was running (even if it was being operated by the passenger)
imagine that in a tesla  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 05:27:19 am by JPortici »
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2023, 05:29:23 am »
A touchscreen is nice for some car things, but yeah, buttons for all core functionality.
There is something magical about a car with switches and buttons everywhere that all illuminate at night, like the cockpit of an airplane.

Perhaps it's just where I live, but I find most car dashboards/lights are waaaaay too bright. I usually turn them right down to minimum.

Came from (I think) the Japanese cars starting in the mid '90s. I believe it was in response to old cars having dank dash lights that only got worse as the car aged. I think it was the Lexus that was the first to have this really stunning speedo when you turned the key.
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Offline james_s

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2023, 05:30:28 am »
As someone who was "recently" involved in a crash in a European car (someone hit me up the rear at 40-50 km/hr), I can attest to the pain of trying to get parts from overseas.

The insurer (in their wisdom) decided to repair, instead of replace. The vehicle was insured for an agreed value of $63k and was less than 12 months old at the time of the crash, which meant it would have been covered under the insurers "new for old replacement" clause. Except that they didn't deem the vehicle as a total write-off (which they probably should have).

A car is never quite the same after a collision like that. Body shops are usually able to make it look good for a while, but give it 10 years or so and something will start to rust where welding burned galvanizing off, and often you'll find something isn't quite perfectly aligned, and the paint often isn't quite as good as the original.
 

Offline DimitriP

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2023, 05:43:25 am »
The car is becoming obsolete anyway. You can just live in the matrix with zero carbon footprint! :-DD

If you don't leave a carbon footprint are you really alive?
   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Online Psi

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2023, 05:49:13 am »
A touchscreen is nice for some car things, but yeah, buttons for all core functionality.
There is something magical about a car with switches and buttons everywhere that all illuminate at night, like the cockpit of an airplane.

Perhaps it's just where I live, but I find most car dashboards/lights are waaaaay too bright. I usually turn them right down to minimum.

yep, dash brightness control is a must.
And it has to control every led in every button/switch/display/dash cluster etc..
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Online Halcyon

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2023, 06:20:06 am »
I can attest to the pain of trying to get parts from overseas.

No, it's not that. Replacement parts weren't available, period. There is still a one year wait time for a control unit replacement (any control unit) and headlights as they can't even fit the new cars with them.
Here in europe, the normal wait time for replacement goes from same day (smaller parts, belts, harnesses, things like that) to 5-10 days for complete engines, control units (also depending on the amount of paperwork required. Some replacements must be done at the dealer because e.g.: synchronization of the network that has to be authorized and that takes more time because of bureocracy)

If parts were available you would have had your car back within a month

Most of the parts were coming from Sweden and those that weren't in stock (like wiring harnesses) were made-to-order (apparently).

As someone who was "recently" involved in a crash in a European car (someone hit me up the rear at 40-50 km/hr), I can attest to the pain of trying to get parts from overseas.

The insurer (in their wisdom) decided to repair, instead of replace. The vehicle was insured for an agreed value of $63k and was less than 12 months old at the time of the crash, which meant it would have been covered under the insurers "new for old replacement" clause. Except that they didn't deem the vehicle as a total write-off (which they probably should have).

A car is never quite the same after a collision like that. Body shops are usually able to make it look good for a while, but give it 10 years or so and something will start to rust where welding burned galvanizing off, and often you'll find something isn't quite perfectly aligned, and the paint often isn't quite as good as the original.

Perhaps, but I generally don't keep cars that long. But I challenge anyone who can spot this repair job by just looking at the car (including underneath). I have to admit, the repairer did a phenomenal job (and it seems their workmanship is well known to the area). I have a pretty good eye for colour and even I can't tell the difference between the replacement panels and the originals. According to the repairer, white/pearl white is the easiest colour to match. As you start getting into the more obscure colours, they become noticeable.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:24:35 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline tom66

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2023, 10:51:38 am »
I have an ID.3, and a lot of the controls in the vehicle are touchscreen or cap-touch based.

It's the worst thing about the car to be honest. The cruise control settings work well enough because they're within muscle memory with your hands on the wheel, but the rest of the controls require taking your eyes off the road to see where you're touching.

Would be glad to have physical controls back.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2023, 04:30:35 pm »
I particularly don't like headlights that cost a thousand dollars to repair/replace when I can just buy a bulb for  $50. It makes insurance premiums that much higher too when even a minor accident can irreparably damage one.

As someone who was "recently" involved in a crash in a European car (someone hit me up the rear at 40-50 km/hr), I can attest to the pain of trying to get parts from overseas.

No excuse not to have at least 3rd party insurance in this day and age.

   Keep this in mind, OVER 50% of the drivers in Florida have NO insurance despite the fact that it's been required by the state since about 1969. 
 
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Offline Stray Electron

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Re: The Glorious Return of a Humble Car Feature
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2023, 04:53:01 pm »
  You guys will appreciate this:  I'm so fed up with modern cars that I am very serious considering buying a 1955 car as my next car. Here is the complete wiring diagram  https://ttypes.org/mg-td-tf-wiring-diagram/ of that car (2nd diagram).

  How the Hell did we get from this to the insane levels of complexities that we have today and why do people put up with the costs and complexity,  and the extremely poor dealer and manufacturer support, of the modern cars!?
 


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