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The Hydrogen fuel economy will not be viable.

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Marco:
I'd rather see district heating and cooling with ground source heatpumps. Lets say that in urban areas you bury a ground source heatpump machine room under the pavement for every 100 homes or so with it's own boreholes. Supplying a hot, warm and chilled coolant loop (warm for low temperature heating, hot for high temperature heating and domestic hot water, chilled for AC).

Will work in any climate, the AC load will allow you to run at net zero ground heat load across a year and you don't need a nuclear plant next door.

nctnico:
I'm not sure whether that would work as well as expected. Ground has a poor heat conductance so you'd multiple boorholes (wells) and when the system goes off-balance you may overheat or exhaust a well. Not saying it is a bad idea perse but if the residual heat is there, it is better to put it to good use.

The nuclear power plant doesn't have to be next door. My hot water is coming from a power plant that is 20km away. With extension of the hot water network, it might come from much further in the future. It looks like they are already using residual heat from a nuclear power plant for district heating in China.

Edit: I don't see the 3 loop thing happening. Just having one loop with hot water is expensive enough already. For cooling use you might need to use a below freezing temperature for the water in order to achieve enough of a cooling effect. Which then requires the use of (potentially) toxic / hazardous anti-freeze agents.

I've been using district heating for over 20 years already for hot water and it works great. For floor heating, I have a mixing unit (common for floor heating) that mixes hot water with cold water from the pipes to ensure the water going into the floor isn't too hot. This mixing unit is nothing more than some pipes.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: Marco on January 15, 2023, 06:26:54 pm ---I'd rather see district heating and cooling with ground source heatpumps. Lets say that in urban areas you bury a ground source heatpump machine room under the pavement for every 100 homes or so with it's own boreholes. Supplying a hot, warm and chilled coolant loop (warm for low temperature heating, hot for high temperature heating and domestic hot water, chilled for AC).

--- End quote ---

I tend to have the same opinion.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: Marco on January 15, 2023, 06:13:29 pm ---Every realistic net zero alternative has more problems to overcome than hydrogen, not less. This is why hydrogen is going ahead regardless of all the nay saying, because the nay sayers aren't coming with real alternatives and 2050 is too close to listen to them.

--- End quote ---

"Net zero" is an horrific bullshit politician term anyway. It matches no reality.

Marco:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 15, 2023, 09:35:31 pm ---"Net zero" is an horrific bullshit politician term anyway. It matches no reality.

--- End quote ---

Sure it does, kill all humans and the emissions from human activity drop to net zero pretty quick.

To what extent we can find a somewhat more palatable solution is an open question, but without fossil fuel all you really have to do is carbon capture from concrete production and you're pretty damn close.

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