General > General Technical Chat
The Hydrogen fuel economy will not be viable.
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Marco:

--- Quote from: nctnico on January 15, 2023, 09:26:58 pm ---Edit: I don't see the 3 loop thing happening. Just having one loop with hot water is expensive enough already.

--- End quote ---

With a distributed setup the pipes are much cheaper. 10k homes need a slightly bigger pipe than 100 homes, also propylene glycol ain't really toxic.
Kleinstein:
A heat distribution network usually wants quite some temperature difference between the hot and cold side. So the hot water is rather hot, like 70-80 C.  Running power plant with such a high temperature for the cold side compromises on the efficiency producing electricity.  It works OK though for small, gas power motors, as they produce there waste heat in this range.

A heat distribution network with lower temperature difference needs thicker pipes and more powerfull pumps.
Central cooling works OK if there is a good sink, like a cool river. AFAIK such a system is in use in parts of Paris, though still with a heat pump.
tom66:
There are some pilot projects in the UK that are providing heat to homes via a district heating system, usually the heat is generated by a heat pump system.

Heat pumps can still produce high temperatures, this is achieved by using a multi stage system.  Essentially, heating the water up twice, with the second loop using a different refrigerant optimised for higher temperatures. Such systems are usually uneconomical for homes, but are perfect for large industrial plants.   These plants usually supply heat at a cost metered by a heat meter.  Hot water can be supplied at any desired temperature by using a heat exchanger. 

I was listening to a report on the BBC regarding one particular system that had replaced oil boilers in about 500 homes in a smaller rural town.  The cost per unit of heat was identical.   In one particular vox pop, the woman said she preferred her old oil based system, but when questioned further, could not explain why.   At the end of the day, it's heat, so why would it matter?  In her mind she'd rather have to maintain an old oil boiler and order in oil every year (at considerable expense and subject to wild swings in the oil price) compared to just receiving heat at exactly the same cost. Some people confuse me.
Bud:

--- Quote from: tom66 on January 16, 2023, 10:01:54 pm --- In one particular vox pop, the woman said she preferred her old oil based system, but when questioned further, could not explain why.   At the end of the day, it's heat, so why would it matter?  In her mind she'd rather have to maintain an old oil boiler and order in oil every year (at considerable expense and subject to wild swings in the oil price) compared to just receiving heat at exactly the same cost. Some people confuse me.

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Because a central heat generating plant is a single point of failure. I would say the same. My personal boiler I am responsible for it. If i do it well, my house is warm.
themadhippy:

--- Quote ---Such systems are usually uneconomical for homes,
--- End quote ---
and yet,not only do many parts of europe seem to use district heating  successfully,we also pay to export our rubbish to sweden, were its  burned and the heat used in? yep district heating systems
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