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The Hydrogen fuel economy will not be viable.
BrianHG:
Hydrogen Will Not Save Us. Here's Why by Sabine Hossenfelder.
She seems to have well researched the topic and provides a near unbiased view.
It sounds like it may be just a green-wash fuel for those special few who can afford it...
mendip_discovery:
Unbias View...its a tough challenge to pull off. She gave the facts but this was a video exploring the downsides and not the upsides to Hydrogen so it is biased.
There are currently only 2 hydrogen car models available in the UK currently, so don't expect the sales to be through the roof. The current trend is for electric cars but that won't suit everyone and the lack of sales may be linked to anyone going green buying electric as its the one being pushed.
She made the comment it doesn't like the cold, and they use it in space. Thankfully space is rather warm.
New Holland has been working on a Deisel and Hydrogen tractor but they also had a big shout about Methane powered tractors this year. https://agriculture.newholland.com/eu/en-uk/equipment/products/agricultural-tractors/t6-methane-power
We need to be looking at alternatives to fossil fuels, and not be blinded by the NEW Steve Jobs who up until recently could do no wrong.
Kleinstein:
Hydrogen in normal passanger cars is not such a good idea: they are usually not used so frequently and with battery EV there is a good alternative. So if it does not work well in a car this does not mean it is not viable for other uses (e.g. trucks, ships, stationary).
AFAIK the H2 production by electrolysis has not big problem working intermittent and with relative low capital costs this is also no economic problem.
Hydrogen can actually be a good way for using the fluctuating production from PV and wind. The first is to just replace the conventional fossile based production. For the CO2 footprint the point is using to a large part the excess power, not PV or wind specificly installed for H2 production. If extra for the H2 production this would be at very good locations.
For the longer time grid tied storrage I currently see no good alternatives to hydrogen - at least not in places where pumped hydro does not work well. One may not have to convert that much back to electricity, as the H2 consumption in the chemical industry alone as an adjustable consumer can do quite a bit, and it may get more when less natural gas is used.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: mendip_discovery on January 14, 2023, 02:46:07 pm ---Unbias View...its a tough challenge to pull off. She gave the facts but this was a video exploring the downsides and not the upsides to Hydrogen so it is biased.
We need to be looking at alternatives to fossil fuels, and not be blinded by the NEW Steve Jobs who up until recently could do no wrong.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. And with almost the whole world (including the oil sheikhs! *) getting into hydrogen, it is utterly foolish to state that there is no future for hydrogen. The future IS hydrogen. Everything is pointing into the direction of hydrogen. Often the counter reasoning stems from thinking hydrogen is something radically new. But it isn't. Hydrogen is old tech. Very old tech. Before natural gas became the norm, the 'household gas' (made from turning coal into gas) contained a significant portion of hydrogen. Also, hydrogen is widely used in chemical plants for many production processes.
And to add the cherry on top: who is going to come up with a better alternative that works right now? The guys from NordVPN? :-// Time has ran out already...
* https://gulfbusiness.com/uae-completes-first-phase-of-national-hydrogen-strategy/
tom66:
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 14, 2023, 06:03:06 pm ---Agreed. And with almost the whole world (including the oil sheikhs! *) getting into hydrogen, it is utterly foolish to state that there is no future for hydrogen. The future IS hydrogen. Everything is pointing into the direction of hydrogen. Often the counter reasoning stems from thinking hydrogen is something radically new. But it isn't. Hydrogen is old tech. Very old tech. Before natural gas became the norm, the 'household gas' (made from turning coal into gas) contained a significant portion of hydrogen. Also, hydrogen is widely used in chemical plants for many production processes.
--- End quote ---
I think it would be wrong to say there is no future for hydrogen, but it will have a few very specific uses where it fits in very well. I didn't honestly know about the cold-start issue for hydrogen cars, but it sounds like it would make these vehicles even more impractical; you now need sufficient power in your small on board battery to fully defrost the hydrogen fuel cell before you could drive.
It's a telling sign that fossil fuel corporations are getting into hydrogen as the next big thing. Who could blame them - it allows them to continue to sell a fuel which is their whole business. But we can't allow them to get away with blue hydrogen as the answer. If we're going to go to a hydrogen economy it has to be green hydrogen and, except for excess renewables storage, I don't see how it would work. It only works for excess renewables because that energy would otherwise be thrown away.
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