General > General Technical Chat
The Hyperloop: BUSTED
David Hess:
--- Quote from: max_torque on October 06, 2016, 04:57:55 pm ---So the Hyperloop, assuming it can be made to work on a practical, day to day level, solves exactly none of those issues.
--- End quote ---
And at least here in the US if the Hyperloop or any other train service *did* solve all of these problems and become competitive with airlines, TSA would step in and add security delays. We have already had incidents with TSA conducting security checks (euphemism) of train and bus passengers at their destination.
Why at their destination? Maybe because they are jerks.
Corporate666:
--- Quote from: max_torque on October 06, 2016, 04:57:55 pm ---QUESTION:
Is current technology mass transit by rail limited by train velocity?
ANSWER:
No.
The limiting factors for the installation, adoption and use of mass rail transit, are, imo:
1) Ticket Cost
2) Infrastructure build and maintainance costs
3) Availability of land for use by said rail network (At least in the UK, where i live)
--- End quote ---
Is that true, though? Do you have supporting studies or documentation? I'm not calling you out - rather I think we all have our own opinions that often aren't reality. Me included regarding trains.
I can tell you that in the Boston to NYC corridor, Amtrak implemented the Acela high speed rail and over the years, it has slowly gobbled up market share from the airlines to the point that it now has something like 70%. I have driven, flown, taken the bus and taken the train between the two cities and the high speed train is a really nice experience that I used to discount until I tried it. The only downside is that it isn't faster. That is the aspect they are working on. They aren't working on making ticket prices cheaper. Nor are they trying to lower maintenance costs. Nor are they worrying about availability of land. They have existing rail lines in densely populated areas (the only places where rail works), and the problem is upgrading old tracks, bridges, transfer points and tunnels to handle higher and higher speed trains. The trains they use here could go quite a bit faster, but they lean into turns, and this makes them incompatible with many of the tunnels. They are working on upgrading the bottlenecks one-by-one so that they can increase the speed of the trains, and they have already committed to buying a newer batch of trains which will be faster still. So my anecdotal evidence is that it's all about speed - people are perfectly happy to pay the same price as a plane ticket in order to be able to show up 10 minutes before departure, sit in a comfy chair at a table, get WiFi internet, have a meal car with food and drink and arrive at Penn Station on a perfectly predictable schedule. The straw that broke the camels (airlines) back was going from regular speed rail to high speed rail - that stole tons of airline market share. Making it faster still will grab even more.
--- Quote ---So the Hyperloop, assuming it can be made to work on a practical, day to day level, solves exactly none of those issues.
--- End quote ---
Issues which, IMO, are not issues.
--- Quote ---Hence, Hyperloop = pointless, irrelevant of any engineering practicalities or solutions.
--- End quote ---
I think people would absolutely pay a pretty penny to get between major population centers quickly. A 30 minute express hyperloop from Boston to NYC could easily command $200 each-way ticket prices all day long. That's around a 150 mile trip each way.
Sure, there are engineering challenges, but no way is it as much of a slam-dunk in the outrageous category as batterizer, solar roadways, the ultrasonic power thing or the other stuff Dave and Thunderfoot are comparing it to, IMO.
jonovid:
--- Quote ---Hyperloop: high-speed rail network that could come to Australia
--- End quote ---
:-DD only in the Australian Capital Territory. the centrifugal force of the Loop can be use to remove politicians from out of office, that outstay their use by date. But Seriously Hyperloop should only be used for parcel express post. Maglev Trains of 430 km/h (270 mph).for passengers on long journeys with no stopping along the way.
amspire:
--- Quote from: vk6zgo on October 06, 2016, 08:49:04 am ---
--- Quote from: Brumby on October 05, 2016, 04:20:58 am ---Hold onto your hats .... or should I say stomachs:
Hyperloop: high-speed rail network that could come to Australia
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/hyperloop-highspeed-rail-network-that-could-come-to-australia/news-story/704d2ee6a76b425d8d1c23e756f8fd85
--- End quote ---
Not going to fly!!
The topography doesn't lend itself,plus NSW & Vic would have to get Federal funds.
That would go over like a wrought iron hanglider with the other States.
--- End quote ---
I think Australia is the perfect place to propose the Hyperloop because we are fabulous at proposing high speed rail.
It is a form of national entertainment. I have a folder from the 1990 Very Fast Train Project Conference in Canberra. For only $150 million of government money and 5 Billion dollars of private enterprise investment and we were going to have a high speed Sydney to Melbourne train that was going to take 70% of the traffic away from the airways. The ticket price was going to be about $200 one way in today's money but I think that was before the airlines started really discounting the airfares.
If someone wants to come here and propose another High Speed Rail, we will welcome them even if the technology is impractical. It is not as if we are going to build anything.
stj:
ticket price is everything, for passengers.
in the u.k. for example, the corruption is so bad that if you have to cross the country then it's much cheaper to fly than take a train.
for goods it's going to be different, your comparing a rail-car to the cost of trucking it by road.
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