General > General Technical Chat
The Hyperloop: BUSTED
Tepe:
--- Quote from: ogden on January 16, 2018, 11:52:24 pm ---NASA and France space agency (CNES) both were skeptical about reusable rocket booster. Wording was not "impractical bullshit", but close. Yet SpaceX prove them wrong, in surprisingly short time BTW.
--- End quote ---
That skepticism is not without merit. Think of the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation. You have to lift the fuel you are going to need for the landing, so presumably it basically boils down to saving more on not having to build a new booster versus the price of the extra fuel needed.
ogden:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 17, 2018, 07:13:00 am ---Another first simple step is to stop and think why no one has done this old idea before:
Has there been some radical breakthrough in maglev technology? No.
--- End quote ---
Maglev and linear motor technology itself shall be considered as breakthrough in this context. Then it did not exist - maybe that's why no one has done it.
--- Quote ---Has there been some huge hype from the most influential tech person on the planet? Yes.
Does this hype attract bandwagon chasing money? Yes.
--- End quote ---
Has there been people who tend to use popular hype "buzzwords" to their advantage? Yes.
Does such approach attract more people to their audience? Yes :)
ogden:
--- Quote from: Tepe on January 17, 2018, 08:16:55 am ---Think of the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation. You have to lift the fuel you are going to need for the landing
--- End quote ---
Yes. Think of it. When landing comes, payload and 2nd stage is already lifted and fuel which were used to lift all that is already gone - meaning not that much fuel is needed to decelerate remaining mass for safe reentry speed. After all they are doing it now, so nothing much to discuss here.
HalFET:
--- Quote from: Tepe on January 17, 2018, 08:16:55 am ---
--- Quote from: ogden on January 16, 2018, 11:52:24 pm ---NASA and France space agency (CNES) both were skeptical about reusable rocket booster. Wording was not "impractical bullshit", but close. Yet SpaceX prove them wrong, in surprisingly short time BTW.
--- End quote ---
That skepticism is not without merit. Think of the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation. You have to lift the fuel you are going to need for the landing, so presumably it basically boils down to saving more on not having to build a new booster versus the price of the extra fuel needed.
--- End quote ---
Half of what at least ESA does is purely politically motivated. Each country contributes a certain amount of money, and based on that staff hiring and project assignments are done. Project calls are written with said assignments in mind, and it's really just a political game. So take anything a European space agency says with a serious grain of salt, the feasibility analysis is often based in politics and not physics.
amspire:
According to the CEO, Hyperloop have already "proven" the technology works.
Not much left to do, I guess.
Or did he mean that they have proven that if you drive an object down a tube, it does go down the tube? How many million did that cost?
I listen to a bit of some of the hype. Lots of talk about building Hyperloop in tunnels and underwater - that is going to make rescue easy. The ideas are all based on some sort of super computerised network that means you capture a driverless vehicle to the station and when you get out, your seat in a hyperloop is waiting - no time wasted. The thing is they will need the same security as airports. Perhaps more since the concept is just so vulnerable.
You fire a tiny charge that pierces the skin of a passenger carriage at the 900 Km mark of a 1000Km pipe and they have to immediately flood the whole tube with air. They then have to rescue the thousands of people in the tube which could mean some have to drive 900Km at a slow speed back to the starting point. The Hyperloop is down probably for the day.
They are now only talking of a 2/3 cost saving over high speed trains, and so by the time it is implemented, the reality could be 3 times the cost of high speed trains. They know what trains cost. The Hyperloop costs are fictional at this stage.
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