Author Topic: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???  (Read 14604 times)

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Online BradC

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #100 on: April 10, 2018, 01:27:04 pm »
Its interesting how technology often makes people think that humans are not capable of tasks that used to be accomplished routinely by humans. Those are most often physical things, but increasingly the way machines have removed the pressing need to train various mental tasks is making people think only very special humans could ever do them before the machines. You didn't need to be a savant to multiply two numbers in your head. It just took enough practice doing it on paper, until you could take away the paper.

Admittedly not with paper, but my highschool Chem teacher (who was in his 60's at the time) could, and regularly did multiply or divide 7 digit numbers on the blackboard faster than we could get them into a Casio fx82 and get an answer out.

He was cool. His "continuity" demonstrator to illustrate the conductivity of certain liquids was a bit of wood with a bayonet socket screwed to each side and wired in series with a bit of 24/0.20 figure 8 and a standard 2 pin plug. In the top socket he put a standard 240V light bulb. In the bottom socket he put a standard 240V light bulb sans glass and filament leaving a pair of probes that he would dip in the liquid. We were amused when he lay it on the desk one day and forgot about it, only to lean on the probes later in the lesson. RCD's were invented, but not installed.
 

Offline Johnboy

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #101 on: April 10, 2018, 02:01:52 pm »
Back before pocket calculators lots of people used slide rules or log tables. However, some of us learned to multiply 7 figure numbers in our heads. The deep mystical secret of this capability - practice.

OK, whatever you say. If you can multiply 2367735 by 8364229 in your head, then I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Sure, I believe some savants can do this trick, but I'm not sure it is the best use of brain cells for mere mortals to learn how to do it  :)
Its interesting how technology often makes people think that humans are not capable of tasks that used to be accomplished routinely by humans. Those are most often physical things, but increasingly the way machines have removed the pressing need to train various mental tasks is making people think only very special humans could ever do them before the machines. You didn't need to be a savant to multiply two numbers in your head. It just took enough practice doing it on paper, until you could take away the paper.

And sometimes using paper is unnecessary in the first place. Here are examples of several methods by which those skills can be acquired (although it's admittedly a little cringeworthy in places).


 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #102 on: April 20, 2018, 12:38:21 pm »
Wow, what an interesting Saga that all was... (again  :) )
(I'm the original 'poster' again...)
My hat's off to the gentleman from the U.S. (and others...), that stated that their kids
ARE taught the times-tables, and that it is a 'requirement'...  That's GOOD !!  :)
But it still sadly doesn't 'here'. (In Australia. No Aussie jokes please  :D)......
I can/have asked my 1st year high-school grand-kids, and their friends, the likes of....
"What is 6x6", or "what is 8x4".... let alone.... "what is 9x7"... (F%$# that's hard!),
and NONE of them can tell me !!!  They ALL have iPhone/Android 'Tablets' these days
in class, (so no need for ancient 'Calculators' ), [lets show them a slide-rule haha].

What is it about a lot of you responders, that make you think that any/all of your own
'methods', and the 'Effort' it takes to remember it/them, is ANY better than SIMPLY
remembering BASIC times-tables, from/with which anyone can calculate anything ??
I RESPECT all your 'abilities'..... but what are you fighting against ??? Seriously ??
May we all, (teachers, parents, grandparents) simply teach our kids the 'basics'  :)

'Brumby' seems to prefer 'Yep..', 'Nope..', {quote} then 'yep..' without 'adding' to
anything at all except his unadulterated 'Piousness'.... He seems to now 'seek' out
my many/varied Posts now, (even though I have moved on...), from a time that he
chose to (attempt to) 'Belittle' me repeatedly.... when I 'dared' to ask for a resolution
on this 'Forums' MAIN? forum topic.  This 'Demi-God' (in his Godness & Greatness)
decided at 2am one morning, (with nothing else to do obviously), to RANT at me, and
tell me I am just a "TROLL"... (Haah?! it was MY post he was continuously abusing??).
After swallowing my pride/rights, I apologized to him, and explained all that I could.....
'HE' then ridiculed me about what I offered, and repeated how 'I'm' just a "TROLL" ????
Well I have many scientific interests, that go WAY beyond listening to this "No-Life",
and as such I keep posting/discussing in areas "I Hope" is beyond 'his' REALM.....
I'm a peaceful Pensioner, who likes to invoke dialog with REAL people, not Demi-Gods...
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 12:40:00 pm by GlennSprigg »
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #103 on: April 20, 2018, 01:26:44 pm »
Well if you want a peaceful life, why make a post that dredges up some spat you've had elsewhere with Brumby in an unrelated topic? That does seem to be trolling for a response. 

Oh and please, less smilies, less brackets, less ... ellipses, less random punctuation in general and RANDOM changing into ALL CAPS in the middle of run on sentences. It makes it incredibly hard to read what you've written.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #104 on: April 20, 2018, 01:35:37 pm »
I'm a bit late to the conversion however my thoughts are as follows...

The traditional "times tables", i.e. multiplication of two numbers between 1 and 12 is largely irrelevant these days. Unless your profession, hobby or interests involve reciting a table of figures which don't change, but that's just data recall.

The function and knowledge of how maths works is far more important than remembering results. Remember BODMAS/BEDMAS? Brackets, Exponents, Divide, Multiply, Add and Subtract... in that order.

I'm the first to admit that I can't do mathematics in my head, even simple equations. Yet, for the most part, I know how maths works and with a calculator I can come to a correct result.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #105 on: April 20, 2018, 03:19:11 pm »
I'm a bit late to the conversion however my thoughts are as follows...

The traditional "times tables", i.e. multiplication of two numbers between 1 and 12 is largely irrelevant these days. Unless your profession, hobby or interests involve reciting a table of figures which don't change, but that's just data recall.


Or your continuing education.  I don't see how anybody can graduate from EE school without being able to do simple multiplication and division.  There simply isn't time to use a calculator for things like factoring polynomials.  You just look at the coefficients and the factors jump out of the paper.  If they don't, you're in for a long night.

I will agree that the average burger-flipper probably doesn't need arithmetic or times tables.  A lack of basic calculating skills is why they're flipping burgers in the first place.

Quote

The function and knowledge of how maths works is far more important than remembering results. Remember BODMAS/BEDMAS? Brackets, Exponents, Divide, Multiply, Add and Subtract... in that order.


And strictly left to right within a precedence level. 6 ÷ 2(1+2) = 9, not 1.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/facebook_math_problem_why_pemdas_doesn_t_always_give_a_clear_answer.html

Quote
I'm the first to admit that I can't do mathematics in my head, even simple equations. Yet, for the most part, I know how maths works and with a calculator I can come to a correct result.

I'm of the opinion that more class time should be spent on setting up problems (word problems) and less time grinding through page-long solutions.  Spend the time to learn Matlab or wxMaxima and let the computer do the number crunching.  symbolab.com and desmos.com get a lot of traffic from my house.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #106 on: April 20, 2018, 06:45:39 pm »
The function and knowledge of how maths works is far more important than remembering results. Remember BODMAS/BEDMAS? Brackets, Exponents, Divide, Multiply, Add and Subtract... in that order.


And strictly left to right within a precedence level. 6 ÷ 2(1+2) = 9, not 1.


Really though, this kind of high school level rule following doesn't have much place in the professional world. Once you leave school and get into advanced studies it becomes more important to communicate effectively and unambiguously. For example the above expression has a spacing and grouping that would suggest this:
$$6 \over 2(1+2)$$
Rather than this:
$${6 \over 2} (1+2)$$
In any professional publication one or other of the above forms would be expected and preferred.

If it was really wanted on a single line one would probably write something like this: \$(6 / 2)(1+2)\$
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 06:49:07 pm by IanB »
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
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Offline helius

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #107 on: April 20, 2018, 07:53:14 pm »
I don't think I have ever seen the ÷ sign as part of a pset past Algebra I... certainly not in High School.
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #108 on: April 20, 2018, 08:09:18 pm »
About a week ago we attended a teacher/parent meeting with our son (last year of primary school).
The teacher suggested we work with him to improve his times tables as it will be required in his intermediate next year.

He has done them in the past as part of homework, along with spelling, but the school hasn't been consistent and so things have slipped a bit. Every year there is a different approach. This lack of consistency seems to be one of the issues with early schooling, at least in this country.

The other issue in the teacher meetings, is that the teachers seem to be stuck in transmit mode.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #109 on: April 21, 2018, 03:20:32 am »
In any professional publication one or other of the above forms would be expected and preferred.

If it was really wanted on a single line one would probably write something like this: \$(6 / 2)(1+2)\$

I was thinking about Fortran.  Or any other language that has operator precedence.  Yes, there is a missing '*' before the '(' but still, the result will be 9.  I'm using this as an object lesson for my grandson in the use of parenthesis to force the order of evaluation.
 

Offline AG6QR

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #110 on: April 21, 2018, 05:27:10 am »
My kids are in elementary school, and have been learning their multiplication tables.  I told them to do it the way I did:

To multiply by two, just double the number.

To multiply by three, double it and add another copy of it.

To multiply by four, double it and double the result.

To multiply by five, halve it and move the decimal one place to the right.

To multiply by six, double it and triple it.

To multiply by seven...  Sevens are hard.  We'll come back to them.

To multiply by eight, double it, double the result, and double that.

To multiply by nine, subtract one from the number to get the tens digit, then for the ones digit, choose the number that, when added to the tens digit, sums to nine.

To multiply by ten, move the decimal point.

You don't need the 11s and 12s any more than you need the 13s, 14s, 15s, etc.  You can get them via the normal methods for two-digit multiplication.

Now, back to the sevens.  To multiply seven by any other number, use the rule for the other number.  That still leaves seven times seven.  You have to remember that it's 49.

Out of 100 multiplication facts, there's only one you've got to memorize.  7x7=49.  Surely you can memorize that one.


Naturally, with practice, you'll start to memorize some of the other multiplication facts, and get faster at them.   But you can also get pretty fast at doubling with practice.  Does it really matter whether you memorize them or figure them out on the fly?
 

Online Brumby

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #111 on: April 21, 2018, 05:48:27 am »
Normally I would not engage in this sort of thing [edit] too deeply [/edit], but the accusations are pretty intense and have been made public.  So here it goes...

I do apologise in advance to the rest of the membership and promise to not engage in a lengthy debate.

'Brumby' seems to prefer 'Yep..', 'Nope..', {quote} then 'yep..' without 'adding' to
anything at all except his unadulterated 'Piousness'.... He seems to now 'seek' out
my many/varied Posts now,
Really?  I tried to avoid posting in any of "your" threads because of the risk of this sort of reaction, but I thought I would add my own two cents' worth in the hope that things had settled.  This was done with no sense or intention of malice, yet it seems simply posting in one of "your" threads is malice enough.
Quote
(even though I have moved on...),
Clearly you haven't.  The previous fracas was over 2 months ago.

Quote
from a time that he
chose to (attempt to) 'Belittle' me repeatedly.... when I 'dared' to ask for a resolution
on this 'Forums' MAIN? forum topic.
See below.
Quote
This 'Demi-God' (in his Godness & Greatness)
decided at 2am one morning,
See below.
Quote
(with nothing else to do obviously),
See below.
Quote
to RANT at me,
See below.
Quote
and
tell me I am just a "TROLL"...
See below.  Read what I wrote.
Quote
(Haah?! it was MY post he was continuously abusing??).
After swallowing my pride/rights, I apologized to him, and explained all that I could.....
'HE' then ridiculed me about what I offered, and repeated how 'I'm' just a "TROLL" ????
Well I have many scientific interests, that go WAY beyond listening to this "No-Life",
and as such I keep posting/discussing in areas "I Hope" is beyond 'his' REALM.....
I'm a peaceful Pensioner, who likes to invoke dialog with REAL people, not Demi-Gods...
Like you said:
Wow, what an interesting Saga that all was... (again  :) )

I'm sorry that you feel the need to tear me down, but it is clear you need to.  I don't believe I have said anything is this thread to warrant such a tirade, but it seems rather obvious you were looking for an excuse to resurrect ill feeling from a previous exchange.

To those wondering - yes, there was an apology (totally unsolicited and completely unexpected), but it was a PM to me.  I would have thought a post to the forum would have been more appropriate.  What hasn't been stated is that my reply was sent 62 minutes later.  Since that PM was private communication sent to me, it would be inappropriate for me to disclose it - but I am happy to present my response - the "RANT" - for others to judge.  Here is the complete, unedited message:

I can understand your embarrassment - but when people were telling you to "walk away", they were actually giving you the best advice to minimise that embarrassment.  You chose to ignore that and demand it gets resolved the way you wanted - which only made it worse.  In the end, you were still pig-headedly pressing for your solution.  Sorry - but that is arrogant and typical of trolls.

Now that the thread has been locked, it will fade and most people will not think about it again - but it will be there as a permanent record.

We tried to tell you the best way ... but noooooo!  You had to keep pushing.


Please note that this response is not an invitation to engage in further discussion on the matter.  It has been given as an acknowledgement of your reaching out and to encapsulate key points.  I hope there will never be a need to speak of these again.

I have been an active member on this forum for a number of years now - and I leave it to other members to judge me on my actions.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 07:26:06 am by Brumby »
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #112 on: April 22, 2018, 06:11:09 pm »
My kids are in elementary school, and have been learning their multiplication tables.  I told them to do it the way I did:

To multiply by two, just double the number.

To multiply by three, double it and add another copy of it.

To multiply by four, double it and double the result.

To multiply by five, halve it and move the decimal one place to the right.

To multiply by six, double it and triple it.

To multiply by seven...  Sevens are hard.  We'll come back to them.

To multiply by eight, double it, double the result, and double that.

To multiply by nine, subtract one from the number to get the tens digit, then for the ones digit, choose the number that, when added to the tens digit, sums to nine.

To multiply by ten, move the decimal point.

You don't need the 11s and 12s any more than you need the 13s, 14s, 15s, etc.  You can get them via the normal methods for two-digit multiplication.

Now, back to the sevens.  To multiply seven by any other number, use the rule for the other number.  That still leaves seven times seven.  You have to remember that it's 49.

Out of 100 multiplication facts, there's only one you've got to memorize.  7x7=49.  Surely you can memorize that one.


Naturally, with practice, you'll start to memorize some of the other multiplication facts, and get faster at them.   But you can also get pretty fast at doubling with practice.  Does it really matter whether you memorize them or figure them out on the fly?

I think about it a different way, but this is generally how I do math too. Memorization is nice so you can recall basic things instantly, but it's useful to have a "feel" for numbers as well. At least it is if you use them frequently for work. Because what do you do when 5*33 comes up? Something like that came up a week or two ago, and I blurted out "that's 165." They're like, "why do you know that off the top of your head?" or something to that effect.  I explained, "well, that's just 33/2 * 10...30/2 is 15, and another 1.5 gives me my three, so it's 16.5 * 10." And of course, I look like a weirdo, but it's actually pretty easy to do. Most numbers are close to other numbers that are easy to deal with, and then it's just a matter of fixing it up a bit.

Very useful for someone like me that has an absolutely atrocious memory. If I actually had to memorize multiplication tables and things like that, I'd be toast. I think stuff like this is what they're trying to do with our new math curriculum in the US, but the way it's implemented is horrible. We've traded one blind procedure for another without giving any real understanding.

If it were me, I wouldn't even teach long division and multiplication. It's not a useful skill for most people, IMHO. That's what calculators are for. I would only teach techniques that allow you to calculate reasonably sized values in your head, and arithmetic tests would be SHOW NO WORK...points off if you write anything but the answer.
 

Offline Distelzombie

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2018, 08:04:36 pm »
As someone on the first page already said: Learning by tables is inherently flawed. It can easily be seen/understood what we mean by using this analogy I came up just now:
A metalworker learns some basic things about temperatures and metals. He knows at a certain point the metals starts to glow. He uses a device that measures color and brightness and gives him a number. He memorized a table that gives him the temperature in degrees Celsius. that corresponds to the number. (It's hypothetical.)
0 = 0°
0.5 = 150°
1 = 300°
2 = 400°
3 = 500°
...
7 = 900°
...
13 = 1500°

One day he wonders what would happen if he heats the metal further and further. (This doesn't have to be absolutely realistic, I warn ya) So he builds a heater, leaves the room and observes the reading on the device while cranking up the heat. The reading and thus the reading rises up to 13. (That is unfortunately the maximum the device can read... Hehe "unfortunately"! See what I did here? [It's lame.]) He awaits any further changes and keeps heating.
At some point the device starts reading lower numbers again. (It's a VERY robust device) He has no reason to distrust the device and assumes his heater broke (I'd actually hope so, but nvmd) and that it really is starting to cool down. He waits for the reading to reach zero and then moves to disassemble the device - and immediately went up in plasma vapors once he came anywhere near it.
Huh? What was his mistake?  ???

Well, first: He forgot to turn off the heater, and second: He didn't know how the underlying mechanics of particle excitation change the wavelength of the energy emission of the heated material, and how limited his devices response to certain frequency ranges is. The device was made to aid in quick temperature assessment in the range of 700 to 450nm energy emissions. He didn't knew that the device couldn't register high energy gamma rays and would show zero instead of billions.

You see, being forced to memorize the contents of a table instead of learning how to create said contents from nothing, can kill you.

Even if you just provide a table for error-checking purposes you are making a fool out of people: If they don't learn how to properly troubleshoot the mistakes they made they are not having a good understanding of the whole thing in the first place.
Just look at the state of Logic in everyday life. It's almost gone entirely!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 08:14:25 pm by Distelzombie »
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2018, 02:07:46 pm »
Well if you want a peaceful life, why make a post that dredges up some spat you've had elsewhere with Brumby in an unrelated topic? That does seem to be trolling for a response. 

Oh and please, less smilies, less brackets, less ... ellipses, less random punctuation in general and RANDOM changing into ALL CAPS in the middle of run on sentences. It makes it incredibly hard to read what you've written.

Dear 'Cerebus'.....  I was not aware that Mathematics was a favorite topic of 'Aardvarks', or why you read this far?
'HE' was mentioned, because he usually makes some Pious remarks when I post something, & here was no exception !
I have ZERO interest in 'your' thoughts beyond that, so please stick to 'licking ants' mate......

OH... and as for your...... "and please, less smilies, less brackets, less ... ellipses, less random punctuation " diatribe,
do you now feel like a 'bigger' 'man' in your personal attack, beyond your apparent need to lick 'someone's' butt (???).
Well, every 'punctuation' mark I use is for a reason, as raw text says/highlights/means nothing..........

Ignoring YOU (from now on), will be easy.....   Back to the REAL commenters that the rest of us love here.....
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #115 on: April 24, 2018, 02:24:18 pm »
Oh.. shit... I almost forgot 'Brumby' !!!!!!!
I know you can't help it mate....  "Gods" can't !!!!!!!!!
(Maybe spend less time trying to defend yourself at 2 or 3 Am with nothing else to do......)

Anyway, I sincerely thank the 'general' (mere) population who engaged in this meaningful
dialog, in a meaningful & productive way, and truly enlightened me. Thank you !
Glenn Sprigg.  (No name ever hidden  :) )
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #116 on: April 24, 2018, 02:29:10 pm »
Well if you want a peaceful life, why make a post that dredges up some spat you've had elsewhere with Brumby in an unrelated topic? That does seem to be trolling for a response. 

Oh and please, less smilies, less brackets, less ... ellipses, less random punctuation in general and RANDOM changing into ALL CAPS in the middle of run on sentences. It makes it incredibly hard to read what you've written.

Dear 'Cerebus'.....  I was not aware that Mathematics was a favorite topic of 'Aardvarks', or why you read this far?
'HE' was mentioned, because he usually makes some Pious remarks when I post something, & here was no exception !
I have ZERO interest in 'your' thoughts beyond that, so please stick to 'licking ants' mate......

OH... and as for your...... "and please, less smilies, less brackets, less ... ellipses, less random punctuation " diatribe,
do you now feel like a 'bigger' 'man' in your personal attack, beyond your apparent need to lick 'someone's' butt (???).
Well, every 'punctuation' mark I use is for a reason, as raw text says/highlights/means nothing..........

Ignoring YOU (from now on), will be easy.....   Back to the REAL commenters that the rest of us love here.....

You've got troll written all over you mate, otherwise why would you turn a polite request to adopt a more readable writing style into a "personal attack" and spend so much time crafting such a personalised reply. Well, perhaps crafting is too  skilled a word for it, but it's clear the intent was to try and get some intemperate response out of me. As to ignoring me, good, but I bet you don't have the self control to let me have the last word.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online Brumby

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #117 on: April 25, 2018, 05:51:19 am »
Wow, what an interesting Saga that all was... (again  :) )
(I'm the original 'poster' again...)
My hat's off to the gentleman from the U.S. (and others...), that stated that their kids
ARE taught the times-tables, and that it is a 'requirement'...  That's GOOD !!  :)
But it still sadly doesn't 'here'. (In Australia. No Aussie jokes please  :D)......
I can/have asked my 1st year high-school grand-kids, and their friends, the likes of....
"What is 6x6", or "what is 8x4".... let alone.... "what is 9x7"... (F%$# that's hard!),
and NONE of them can tell me !!!  They ALL have iPhone/Android 'Tablets' these days
in class, (so no need for ancient 'Calculators' ), [lets show them a slide-rule haha].

What is it about a lot of you responders, that make you think that any/all of your own
'methods', and the 'Effort' it takes to remember it/them, is ANY better than SIMPLY
remembering BASIC times-tables, from/with which anyone can calculate anything ??
I RESPECT all your 'abilities'..... but what are you fighting against ??? Seriously ??
May we all, (teachers, parents, grandparents) simply teach our kids the 'basics'  :)

'Brumby' seems to prefer 'Yep..', 'Nope..', {quote} then 'yep..' without 'adding' to
anything at all except his unadulterated 'Piousness'.... He seems to now 'seek' out
my many/varied Posts now, (even though I have moved on...), from a time that he
chose to (attempt to) 'Belittle' me repeatedly.... when I 'dared' to ask for a resolution
on this 'Forums' MAIN? forum topic.  This 'Demi-God' (in his Godness & Greatness)
decided at 2am one morning, (with nothing else to do obviously), to RANT at me, and
tell me I am just a "TROLL"... (Haah?! it was MY post he was continuously abusing??).
After swallowing my pride/rights, I apologized to him, and explained all that I could.....
'HE' then ridiculed me about what I offered, and repeated how 'I'm' just a "TROLL" ????
Well I have many scientific interests, that go WAY beyond listening to this "No-Life",
and as such I keep posting/discussing in areas "I Hope" is beyond 'his' REALM.....
I'm a peaceful Pensioner, who likes to invoke dialog with REAL people, not Demi-Gods...


Well if you want a peaceful life, why make a post that dredges up some spat you've had elsewhere with Brumby in an unrelated topic? That does seem to be trolling for a response. 

Oh and please, less smilies, less brackets, less ... ellipses, less random punctuation in general and RANDOM changing into ALL CAPS in the middle of run on sentences. It makes it incredibly hard to read what you've written.

Dear 'Cerebus'.....  I was not aware that Mathematics was a favorite topic of 'Aardvarks', or why you read this far?
'HE' was mentioned, because he usually makes some Pious remarks when I post something, & here was no exception !
I have ZERO interest in 'your' thoughts beyond that, so please stick to 'licking ants' mate......

OH... and as for your...... "and please, less smilies, less brackets, less ... ellipses, less random punctuation " diatribe,
do you now feel like a 'bigger' 'man' in your personal attack, beyond your apparent need to lick 'someone's' butt (???).
Well, every 'punctuation' mark I use is for a reason, as raw text says/highlights/means nothing..........

Ignoring YOU (from now on), will be easy.....   Back to the REAL commenters that the rest of us love here.....


Oh.. shit... I almost forgot 'Brumby' !!!!!!!
I know you can't help it mate....  "Gods" can't !!!!!!!!!
(Maybe spend less time trying to defend yourself at 2 or 3 Am with nothing else to do......)

Anyway, I sincerely thank the 'general' (mere) population who engaged in this meaningful
dialog, in a meaningful & productive way, and truly enlightened me. Thank you !
Glenn Sprigg.  (No name ever hidden  :) )
 

Offline Distelzombie

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #118 on: April 25, 2018, 06:34:30 am »
Nice archiving, Brumby. ???

Anyway. GlennSprigg it took me a while to write and imagine my post on the last page. Could at least say something?

Online Brumby

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #119 on: April 25, 2018, 08:02:22 am »
Nice archiving, Brumby. ???

After the last effort, it seemed judicious.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #120 on: April 25, 2018, 08:04:12 pm »
Far too much educational time is spent on hifalutin' maths like integral calculus or imaginary numbers, and far too little on the skills which are needed by most people.

Mind you, same is true in other subjects. For example the manic obsession with using OOP coding for even the tiniest program in comp sci courses, whilst the same students have no idea how to avoid typical IT security gotchas. 

Education is like a building; if the foundations are no good, the rest will eventually fall over. The more top-heavy you make it, the sooner that will happen.

Make a good foundation, and people will add more structures to it over time, as required.
 

Offline Distelzombie

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #121 on: April 26, 2018, 01:44:46 am »
Exactly. I always wondered why there are no Philosophy classes in normal elementary and upwards schools. (Germany)

Offline rstofer

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #122 on: April 26, 2018, 02:51:51 am »
Far too much educational time is spent on hifalutin' maths like integral calculus or imaginary numbers, and far too little on the skills which are needed by most people.

A lot of us are engineers by education and we hope our offspring take a similar path.  That path WILL require imaginary numbers (particularly for EEs using Euler's identity) and it will require all 4 semesters of calculus (up through differential equations).  Of course, we are not 'most people'.  We can do hard math...

Trade education is available at most community colleges and, just guessing, ALL junior colleges in California.  That's good!  We need trained techs!  There's room for both types, engineers and techs.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #123 on: April 26, 2018, 02:55:46 am »
Exactly. I always wondered why there are no Philosophy classes in normal elementary and upwards schools. (Germany)

It is a required course at our local junior college or as a lower division requirement of Cal State colleges and universities.  There may be a way to avoid it by substituting another general education class but I don't think so.
 

Offline Distelzombie

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Re: The importance today, of "Times-Tables" ???
« Reply #124 on: April 26, 2018, 03:05:19 am »
Exactly. I always wondered why there are no Philosophy classes in normal elementary and upwards schools. (Germany)

It is a required course at our local junior college or as a lower division requirement of Cal State colleges and universities.  There may be a way to avoid it by substituting another general education class but I don't think so.
It should start in elementary school, or at least in middle school. Definitely. I mean you learn basic Logic, Ethics ... stuff! Very important.




Edit: I think nobody is taking my post back then seriously: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-importance-today-of-_times-tables_/msg1488705/#msg1488705
So here is one more knowledgable person with the same opinion, in paper form. I can produce more if needed: https://bhi61nm2cr3mkdgk1dtaov18-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/FluencyWithoutFear-2015-1.pdf
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 03:37:57 am by Distelzombie »
 


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