Author Topic: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights  (Read 30420 times)

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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2020, 11:30:42 pm »
So...   What can we do, if we intensely dislike the way the Internet has ended up?   ... At least ad blocking means we don't have to look at the intrusion, even if it is still there...
You roll up your sleeves and do what you can. Proper ad blocking doesn't just hide the ads and is an important first step. Reduce your fingerprint. In the case of telemetry you'll want an independent firewall or PiHole type deal. It's definitely an uphill battle, but I consider not doing anything at least as unattractive.

This is based on the assumption that "the enemy" is happy to snare 95% of the users (like your non technical friends and family), and are unlikely to do all the work required to track people who know what they are doing?
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2020, 11:46:59 pm »
You roll up your sleeves and do what you can. Proper ad blocking doesn't just hide the ads and is an important first step. Reduce your fingerprint. In the case of telemetry you'll want an independent firewall or PiHole type deal. It's definitely an uphill battle, but I consider not doing anything at least as unattractive.
This is based on the assumption that "the enemy" is happy to snare 95% of the users (like your non technical friends and family), and are unlikely to do all the work required to track people who know what they are doing?
That's why I advocate for noise injection and efforts to the make the noise harder to distinguish from real data, because that has the potential to help those who don't know any better.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2020, 01:45:26 am »
You roll up your sleeves and do what you can. Proper ad blocking doesn't just hide the ads and is an important first step. Reduce your fingerprint. In the case of telemetry you'll want an independent firewall or PiHole type deal. It's definitely an uphill battle, but I consider not doing anything at least as unattractive.
This is based on the assumption that "the enemy" is happy to snare 95% of the users (like your non technical friends and family), and are unlikely to do all the work required to track people who know what they are doing?
That's why I advocate for noise injection and efforts to the make the noise harder to distinguish from real data, because that has the potential to help those who don't know any better.

What if most people don't care?
 

Offline rdl

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2020, 03:37:00 am »
My opinion is that to really fix the problem will require legal solutions implemented by government. There have been some noises in that area but so far it's way not enough.

The first thing that an individual can do is to not use a Google or Microsoft browser. Next, install uBlock Origin and NoScript and learn how to use them. It will require a bit of effort at first and there will be a lot of annoyances due to many sites not working.

I like to have two different functioning browsers installed. One tightly locked down for day to day use and one loose enough that online shopping still works. In theory, two different profiles should work, but I find separate browsers easier. I use Pale Moon and Firefox.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2020, 04:03:39 am »
My opinion is that to really fix the problem will require legal solutions implemented by government. There have been some noises in that area but so far it's way not enough.
[...]


This.

Governments / legislatures are sooooo far behind the curve these days...
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2020, 06:26:21 am »
So...   What can we do, if we intensely dislike the way the Internet has ended up?   ... At least ad blocking means we don't have to look at the intrusion, even if it is still there...

I keep my network locked down pretty tight, I have ad blocking on both my PCs and slightly less draconian ad blocking on my router that takes care of other devices. A bunch of dnsmasq rules too which block various things.

I try not to give away any more information than I have to but I don't worry too much about it either. Given I'm not a very typical consumer I think my habits are essentially worthless to marketers. I very rarely buy anything new other than food and when I do want something I figure out exactly what I want first and then actively search for the best place to buy it. I don't even remember the last time I saw an ad for something and decided I wanted it. Actually between my aggressive ad blocking and the fact that I haven't watched live TV in years I'm not sure I remember the last time I saw an ad.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2020, 06:27:56 am »

This.

Governments / legislatures are sooooo far behind the curve these days...

We still have legislators who have never used the internet, at least we did not long ago, and many of them who have used it do not understand it. The people writing the laws are always hopelessly behind these days.
 
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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2020, 01:01:04 pm »
What if most people don't care?
They're part of the problem, just like how those who fall for phishing scams keep those scams going.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

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Offline chriva

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2020, 03:13:28 pm »
There's a tiny, tiny button to circumvent it if you dig around. Trust me.
 

Offline nuclearcat

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2020, 04:30:29 pm »
Yes yes , i vividly remember how i turn on my Ubuntu linux PC one morning and the shit goddamn thing installed a new version with the Unity interface without even asking. So much for your beloved linux.
As far as i remember Ubuntu doesn't do that, or at least not doing anymore, if they ever did such thing - max once. Linux users wont tolerate that.
If you are running LTS version - compatibility is everything for them. They will keep pushing only fixes and security updates, but no "totally new" versions of software, unless there is no real way to keep compatibility (like for example with php, they just deprecate old branch and project is too big to support by Ubuntu team means).
Thats why it is perfect for EE.
>Development machine? You just pack LTS version of some Linux to VM with kicad and other relevant tools, and you can expect consistency for several years. You can stay up2date secure AND still compatible with your software. While with windows you have choice - keep updates and have a chance everything breaks at major updates, or disable them and your Windows is becoming one giant security hole.
Did i forgot point that you can reinstall everything offline, without any "connect me to internet to download missing installer files and also i will download something else and screw with this new shiny updates"?
Oh and how many times i just turn on my Windows PC(some customers want Windows-only stuff) and at most needed time i have this "Please don't turn off your computer", it takes ages, and sometimes things get really wrong and at worst time.
>Product? Same here, you can even build your own update mirror based on LTS repos and push only updates for software that is critical for you, and choose, if you want to upgrade openssh to really latest version as it is not critical for your embedded stuff and you just tested it before.
Windows? Ticking bomb. Except that hilarious ATMs, billboards, "airport tableau" bluescreening, showing license errors or windows updates, everybody remember how FTDI massively bricked tons of chip clones and the only one guilty and responsible (and most likely paying) will be EE who built product and missed problem with supply chain. Or, if you built, for example, some product that is based on another components and one tiny, like some barcode reader have this counterfeit FTDI chip. And you have no control on their supply chain.
They literally delivered logical bomb that did significant damage and did not bear any responsibility. In my opinion, this is a real career suicide and the crime of using such a system that might sabotage whole product.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2020, 05:28:26 pm »

[...]
  everybody remember how FTDI massively bricked tons of chip clones and the only one guilty and responsible (and most likely paying) will be EE who built product and missed problem with supply chain.
[...]


Wonder how many decided to avoid using FTDI altogether as a result of this?  -  the company went from "Good reputation for solid product"  to "Typhoid Mary" in about a week...
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2020, 06:28:40 pm »
Wonder how many decided to avoid using FTDI altogether as a result of this?  -  the company went from "Good reputation for solid product"  to "Typhoid Mary" in about a week...

I've actively avoided using FTDI products since then and I was not even personally hit by the scheme. I'd rather just cut it off at the pass and never have to deal with such an issue, there are competing products with their own drivers that work just fine, no need to use fake FTDI clones.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2020, 09:50:42 pm »
That's why I advocate for noise injection and efforts to the make the noise harder to distinguish from real data, because that has the potential to help those who don't know any better.
It doesn't work that way. Look into how these things work or at least read by previous reply to you. Being naive about this doesn't get us anywhere and vague and overly broad handwavy "plans" won't either.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2020, 11:07:30 pm »
It doesn't work that way. Look into how these things work or at least read by previous reply to you. Being naive about this doesn't get us anywhere and vague and overly broad handwavy "plans" won't either.
So you give 100% noise (not necessarily all random) to an algorithm that (according to you) tries to pick out any pattern it can out of the noise. What happens if there isn't any real data to make any real patterns? Regardless of whether it locks onto a false pattern or gives up and concludes there's nothing of value, they just spent a lot of computing power to get nothing useful.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

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Offline Bassman59

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2020, 11:54:54 pm »
It doesn't work that way. Look into how these things work or at least read by previous reply to you. Being naive about this doesn't get us anywhere and vague and overly broad handwavy "plans" won't either.
So you give 100% noise (not necessarily all random) to an algorithm that (according to you) tries to pick out any pattern it can out of the noise. What happens if there isn't any real data to make any real patterns? Regardless of whether it locks onto a false pattern or gives up and concludes there's nothing of value, they just spent a lot of computing power to get nothing useful.

For starters, you haven't shown us any examples of how one would generate this noise.

If there is no real data, then, sure, the monitor "spent a lot of computing power ..." but then again, so did you. The difference is that they have power to spare and you don't.

I should also point out that your internet connection is metered. Look at your bill. You do have a data-transfer cap, even if it's high (like mine, which is a terabyte per month). Do you really want to eat up your data allotment sending noise?
 

Offline nuclearcat

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2020, 12:38:23 am »
I've actively avoided using FTDI products since then and I was not even personally hit by the scheme. I'd rather just cut it off at the pass and never have to deal with such an issue, there are competing products with their own drivers that work just fine, no need to use fake FTDI clones.
Sometimes there is a reasons to keep using FTDI, for example reusing existing opensource software or libraries, to not reinvent the wheel.
And now i am ok to use clones, after such harmful "stunt" done by company and wont feel any guilt about that, as long as they are suitable for project and there is no way FTDI can do such sabotage in specific product again.
And whole topic is more about that Microsoft might deliver another bricker code for your devices, different vendor, if they wish to do so, and you can do nothing about it. All this attempts to cut updates by ips and dns names are funny as well, as you can't know, because you cant know how much stuff hidden in their code, and how they can keep data channels over "steganographed means" on.

Regarding opposing Microsoft and Google. Guys, did you forgot Mozilla aint saint too? Their stunt with DNS over HTTPS routed by default to cloudflare, and as i heard enabled by default for US customers - doesnt smell good at all. One thing is good - if browser if opensource, you can always build your own fork of Firefox or Chromium. "Edge" is not even near to that.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2020, 12:57:08 am »
For starters, you haven't shown us any examples of how one would generate this noise.

If there is no real data, then, sure, the monitor "spent a lot of computing power ..." but then again, so did you. The difference is that they have power to spare and you don't.

I should also point out that your internet connection is metered. Look at your bill. You do have a data-transfer cap, even if it's high (like mine, which is a terabyte per month). Do you really want to eat up your data allotment sending noise?
Believe it or not, uncapped connections (at least for fixed connections) are the norm in some areas. (If you *do* have a cap, ad blocking is a must!)

Here's one example of a noise generator:
http://makeinternetnoise.com/index.html
It's just a script that periodically submits a random string as a search query. Doesn't use much bandwidth or compute power on the client side. I'm sure that if you reimplemented it as native code (or even an interpreted language that's more efficient than Javascript), it would be even more efficient and allow many more parallel instances to run on even a Raspberry Pi.

I am aware that bandwidth is (relatively) cheap for them, hence wasting that is not the most effective way of protest. But do they really have as much to spare as you think? Some video hosts are lowering the default resolution to reduce bandwidth usage thanks to COVID-19 dramatically increasing demand.

They don't get compute power, memory, or storage space very much cheaper than we do (in fact, enterprise hardware tends to be more expensive per metric than consumer hardware), plus the good protests are very asymmetrical in that the resource use on the client side is much lower than on the server side.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2020, 02:06:34 am »

[...]
Here's one example of a noise generator:
http://makeinternetnoise.com/index.html

[...]


Love it!   Have it running in a virtual machine now... 
 

Offline james_s

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2020, 08:44:28 pm »
For starters, you haven't shown us any examples of how one would generate this noise.

If there is no real data, then, sure, the monitor "spent a lot of computing power ..." but then again, so did you. The difference is that they have power to spare and you don't.

I should also point out that your internet connection is metered. Look at your bill. You do have a data-transfer cap, even if it's high (like mine, which is a terabyte per month). Do you really want to eat up your data allotment sending noise?
Believe it or not, uncapped connections (at least for fixed connections) are the norm in some areas. (If you *do* have a cap, ad blocking is a must!)


I've never had a cap on my internet connection. Until recently I had a 30/30Mb connection and at one point I had the downstream almost completely saturated for several weeks and was not billed anything extra or throttled. Now I have a gigabit connection and have not come close to saturating it for any length of time and again I cannot find any mention of any sort of cap.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2020, 08:50:28 pm »
Quote
I've never had a cap on my internet connection.
last one i had was about 18 years ago
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2020, 09:08:10 pm »
Quote
I've never had a cap on my internet connection.
last one i had was about 18 years ago

On the page detailing Internet service from Cox Cable (the incumbent here, and I have no real choice), there's an entry for "Data plan." That it's placed so prominently here is new -- only in the last couple of months. Previously, the cap was buried in the service details. It is not on the bill.

So, check your service details. If you don't have a cap, consider yourself lucky. And expect it to change.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2020, 09:41:30 pm »
my provider state
Quote
unlimited  is truly unlimited,we do not limit your data or use any traffic management

and a quick check shows

Quote
You’ve consumed 1,229GB of your unlimited broadband data since 01/01/2020
not bad for 20 quid a month
 

Offline edy

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2020, 01:50:54 pm »
I have found the Edge browser to be fairly good. For example at the office we need clients to fill in PDF forms. When Google Chrome loads a PDF it doesn't allow you to save the form filled in. It only lets you download and it saves the blank. Edge let's you load the PDF, fill it, save the contents and reload the PDF again and display the saved data in the fields/checkboxes no problem. Much better than installing a bloated Adobe Reader.

At home I use Ubuntu Studio, which uses the Xfce desktop. Very smooth and slick. I've experimented with Unity but couldn't stand it. At some point I updated from Xenial Xerus to Artful Aardvark and I think they pushed the Gnome desktop on us. I liked it at first, added some cool extensions (see video below) but then soon had a total meltdown of my desktop environment (very glitchy). So I did a complete reinstall to the latest Ubuntu Studio with Xfce and never looked back.

As far as leaving little to no footprints, use Tails on a bootable USB with persistence. I made myself a key and boot up with it on any machine. It will retain your files and work, everything configured through Tor and uses DuckDuckGo search engine. Good for watching and seeing news and shows restricted to other countries. When you are done, shutdown, remove key and the host computer you used has no idea. Apparently Snowden used this distro on various library and public machines.

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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2020, 05:29:35 pm »

Will the new Edge browser start on Windows 7?
 

Offline mc172

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Re: The impudence of Microsoft has reached new (criminal?) heights
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2020, 09:30:57 pm »
I had this happen on my W10 machines about a week ago but what I really didn't expect is for this to happen on one of my W7 machines just a few minutes ago. It effectively took over my computer and was running 3 as separate instances in task manager so that even if you try to use the end task button, the other two are left running. You can't escape it until you go through with it as it wants you to. Absolute bellends, pretty annoyed by this.

The update schedule on this particular machine are set to manual and the update it prompted me to install earlier today (about 4PM GMT) looked like a normal security update, apart from being a little bit larger than usual (80 MB) but looked fine. Unfortunately not.
 


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