EEVblog® Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: EEVblog on April 19, 2018, 07:02:09 am
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We have come to the conclusion that the Keysight waveform logo is NOT a thing.
Doesn't even have split rotational symmetry.
:--
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-keysight-logo-is-not-a-thing/?action=dlattach;attach=413132;image)
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What you get from a cheap Chinese amplifier or signal generator. :-DD
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Not symmetric indeed (picture attached for those having trouble seeing it like me)
P.S. fun fact: keysight provides their logo nicely as a svg file on their website
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That's what happens when the big boys bring in the consultants (a word that is sometimes shortened by removing the 'sultant' bit to reveal an inner truth :P ). I bet the board then voted on it. It totally smacks of being designed by committee in order to cause absolutely no offence to anyone in the company's international markets. They might as well as gone from from Agilent to being Anodyne Systems Inc.
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You do realise that now when I stare at my DMM the lack of symmetry is going to poke me in the eye?
Going to have to buy another DMM now (poor excuse) :-DD
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That's what happens when the big boys bring in the consultants (a word that is sometimes shortened by removing the 'sultant' bit to reveal an inner truth :P ). I bet the board then voted on it. It totally smacks of being designed by committee in order to cause absolutely no offence to anyone in the company's international markets. They might as well as gone from from Agilent to being Anodyne Systems Inc.
I can picture the presentation from the consultant:
"The logo embodies synergy between the HP legacy and the new embodiment of the Keysight spirit and the relationship with their customers through a retro symbolic means."
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Where does this discussion originate ? :-//
Is it an OCD sensitive issue maybe ?
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Why do I feel this is a great topic ;)
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It's a graph of the fortunes of the company under successive CEOs.
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You do realise that now when I stare at my DMM the lack of symmetry is going to poke me in the eye?
Going to have to buy another DMM now (poor excuse) :-DD
Flog it now ..while the display is still bright and crisp
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Dodged that bullet :-DD It's a LCD jobby :)
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Engineers talking about logo design. This should be good. :popcorn:
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Engineers talking about logo design. This should be good. :popcorn:
If more engineers could stomach working in marketing departments I think it would be a great thing. I was a graphic designer for many years but got thoroughly sick of the whole marketing (read: lying for money) thing.
I do think it's odd that the HP name went with the computing side of the business when it split, rather than the test-gear side. I would have thought the newer technology would have fared better with a name change, but seeing as they seem to be doing/have done well enough as Agilent or Keysight. It still just smacks of marketing wank.
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I was a graphic designer for many years but got thoroughly sick of the whole marketing (read: lying for money) thing.
What do you mean?
They most likely hired an "EXPERT" and told him what to do:
If you have not seen this, it is hilarious and sad.
As an engineer, we probably have all been in this situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg)
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Am I the only person here who doesn't care?
It's not a bad logo, compared to other ones I've seen. It might not be the best, but it isn't the shittiest.
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Doesn't even have split rotational symmetry.
Making it asymetric and non repetitive was probably the only way they could work around the creation of conspiracy theories and maybe even improve the legal situation when it comes to counterfeit or copyright :-) Consider the logo being symetric and repetitive, then it would be harder to "protect", legally - without knowing too much about it. It is at least harder to explain why something is an exact copy.
The problem with the topic is.... only Keysight knows what that logo should express or should not express. :palm:
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Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.
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Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.
I like that ... and it's the sort of thing I could see somebody doing as a quick graphic tweak.
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I would like to see an FFT performed on that waveform. ;)
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Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.
Even better, it's the envelope of the output of an extremely complex non-cyclic AM modulated arbitrary signal generator for the purposes of EMC testing.
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Or a DS1022Z with a particularly buggy firmware release.
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Making it asymetric and non repetitive was probably the only way they could work around the creation of conspiracy theories and maybe even improve the legal situation when it comes to counterfeit or copyright :-) Consider the logo being symetric and repetitive, then it would be harder to "protect", legally - without knowing too much about it. It is at least harder to explain why something is an exact copy.
The problem with the topic is.... only Keysight knows what that logo should express or should not express. :palm:
I'm fairly sure it's an artistic choice. It's obviously supposed to relate to signals, but without it being a literal representation of a single specific signal. It basically represents the concept of a signal but not a literal signal. The lack of symmetry seems to be introduced to make it a bit more interesting to look at. Symmetry tends to be boring, especially when it's a fairly simple graphic already.
You may be right about it being harder to protect a more regular signal, though.
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Maybe the marketing team was having a go at predistortion.
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We have come to the conclusion that the Keysight waveform logo is NOT a thing.
I'm wondering how the EEVblog crew came to that conclusion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoGVgj1MtY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoGVgj1MtY)
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You do realise that now when I stare at my DMM the lack of symmetry is going to poke me in the eye?
Going to have to buy another DMM now (poor excuse) :-DD
You just need to find an Agilent sticker and rebadge your gear
(https://eeiplatform.com/files/agilent-technologies-150x150.png)
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Agilent was a much classier name and logo.
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that looks like AM modulation on a chinese carrier
can someone do a FFT?
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Engineers talking about logo design. This should be good. :popcorn:
(http://assets.amuniversal.com/b5d7fc80e891012e2fb600163e41dd5b)
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Anyone remember Lucent's logo? The coffee cup stain?
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FM the company name and logo
AM the product prices
SSB the firmware bugs
The logo is accurate.
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i think lucent logo is some kinda chaotic oscillator in 2 axis
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that looks like AM modulation on a chinese carrier
can someone do a FFT?
Just eyeballing it, I'm guessing it would look like a raised middle finger. Hopefully aimed at the competition and not the customers. ;D
It's unquestionably a poor logo, but the people and the products are what's important, and they're doing fine there from what I can see.
It's also surprising how well logos can hold up over time. Nobody was especially complimentary of the Agilent logo when they announced it, or of the name for that matter. But the Agilent logo looks good now for a few reasons. One, because the new logo is worse. Two, because it wasn't really that bad in the first place. Three, because the company itself was, and is, still H-P under the hood.
The Lucent logo, on the other hand... wow. There is, and was, no possibility of redemption for that one.
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sure its not one of these?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQuz9fI0385h1qOEZRSG7eRVDLIVygLZhmf7H7Vy9THfNhaekAX2g)
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ned_Corron/publication/10730989/figure/fig2/AS:276970429534212@1443046304899/Simply-folded-band-attractor-exhibited-by-the-chaotic-LC-oscillator.png)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2fy1digthkX7tgF3jx8U0xU6m4-juXe6lbQ7ZG5cJry98FgEPIQ)
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A related challenge:
when you take a look at the TEA thread, you'll see my new generator. Can anyone come up with the polynomial, which makes it do the Keysight logo?
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Am I the only person here who doesn't care?
It's not a bad logo, compared to other ones I've seen. It might not be the best, but it isn't the shittiest.
you are not alone... i bet nobody's dick and balls is symmetric, natures are mostly non symmetric...
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Am I the only person here who doesn't care?
It's not a bad logo, compared to other ones I've seen. It might not be the best, but it isn't the shittiest.
you are not alone... i bet nobody's dick and balls is symmetric, natures are mostly non symmetric...
Yeeeaaaa, but, on the other hand it's not. I mean all life is mostly symmetric. Look at you. You could've even be born with malformations that look like a seem hasn't fully closed. It's like we're two halves that stick together. By magic. *rainbow appears*
On Daves twitter someone showed that his scope can create the Keysight Logo as a waveform demo. Try ask him?
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I mean all life is mostly symmetric.
One notable exception - human proteins are exclusively built from left handed amino acids.
https://www.chirality.org/ (https://www.chirality.org/)
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I thought the golden ratio was everywhere in nature...
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I thought the golden ratio was everywhere in nature...
In no small part due to it being stuck on everything, even if there's barely a fit. It's a prime example of cognitive bias.
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Ha, but the point of all this is to catalyze an emotional response. I initially liked the KS logo for it's simple design and relevancy to their products and market. Of course it is likely purely a graphic designer's interpretation of something real that they may have been presented, and then interpreted to achieve an emotional objective based on their training. It's along with the color of the product. Red and black are making a very bold statement thats likely to be aimed at the decision makers and not the users.
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Good point. If I’m honest I like the logo.
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Did you miss this?
On Daves twitter someone showed that his scope can create the Keysight Logo as a waveform demo. Try ask him?
I'll link it:
Mozziconi (@iMozziconi)
Replying to @eevblog @Keysight
I've got a Keysight CRO, mate.
It has a "Demo signals" feature (signals are generated at the compensation output and can be captured by a probe connected to it). There are dozens of demos there and one of those signals is called "Keysight" and I've just captured it.
Here you are:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbINf9KUMAAwRuT.jpg)
Apparently only people with US$ 21,319 oscilloscope are in on the secret to this.
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overlay
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It looks too close to that to be impossible.
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Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.
Ha ha ha! That's very close!
Edit: Actually the original (and that scope sample signal) looks like the accumulated envelope of a 3-cycle sine chirp, with shaped envelope and gradually ramped overall amplitude and/or freq, with triggering set to DC, negative slope, small negative voltage.
And I think it's ugly.
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The best I can get:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-keysight-logo-is-not-a-thing/?action=dlattach;attach=413907;image)
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Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.
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Interesting find!
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Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.
Heh. Can you find a date on that image, and is it solid?
Because that's a legal challenge to a registered design/copyright/trademark right there.
Please someone do Keysight a favor, and make them change that ugly thing.
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Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.
Idea? That is pretty much the logo, verbatim! :o
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Idea? That is pretty much the logo, verbatim! :o
Without a proper date and source causality is not readily established. I'm not sure the top part isn't modern to begin with.
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Unless I'm overlooking something in the image, it doesn't seem to be related to the logo.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/30/11/2AE9F91500000578-3176030-Hosting_legends_As_the_city_grew_in_popularity_it_started_to_att-a-6_1438251253212.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3176030/Evolution-Sin-City-Rare-retro-photos-reveal-Las-Vegas-transformed-one-horse-town-glitzy-City-Lights.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3176030/Evolution-Sin-City-Rare-retro-photos-reveal-Las-Vegas-transformed-one-horse-town-glitzy-City-Lights.html)
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Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.
I'd say that is simply part of a web based advertisement for Keysight :)
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I'd say that is simply part of a web based advertisement for Keysight :)
That should be so obvious it starts feeling like intentional misrepresentation. :scared:
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Anyone remember Lucent's logo? The coffee cup stain?
Actually, the Agilent and Lucent logos were made by the same PR firm (Landor). Not sure what they charged Agilent for the logo, but it seems they might have re-used a few elements from their Lucent design ..... :)
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i tried to recreate it combining two AM signals, this was the closest i got :P no keysight demo waveform on this scope :scared:
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a word that is sometimes shortened by removing the 'sultant' bit to reveal an inner truth
You get another truth by swapping the 'u & l in that 'sultant', frequently applicable to business and marketing consluting, but I have seen it applicable in software and even design types.
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I thought the golden ratio was everywhere in nature...
Picture taken from: https://twitter.com/tulpapilled/status/1532796580331667457 (https://twitter.com/tulpapilled/status/1532796580331667457)
The man there is https://www.instagram.com/kapakoulak/ (https://www.instagram.com/kapakoulak/)
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the shape is a secret sauce so people can;t just copy and past some shape or make it with some curve drawing program. it is easy to spot fakes. like the FTIKE mulitmeters
https://www.ebay.com/itm/392611099934?hash=item5b6971f51e:g:HrQAAOSwabhUXBd6 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/392611099934?hash=item5b6971f51e:g:HrQAAOSwabhUXBd6)
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the shape is a secret sauce so people can;t just copy and past some shape or make it with some curve drawing program. it is easy to spot fakes.
Yes, but this is a double-edged sword.
If you make a logo difficult to copy in subtle ways, but easy to approximate (with most people probably not noticing), then you open the possibility of having counterfeits with a purposedly inexact logo (but looking close enough for the unaware), then reaping some of the benefits of counterfeiting without being an infringement. This is a very common practise.
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Try taking FFT from the Keysight logo.
Then use an AWG to synthesize a copy. ::)
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Thread resurrected because Daniel challenged me on X/Twitter :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNS0jP-vbAk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNS0jP-vbAk)
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Dang, the Keysight logo has been debunked.