Just learn to be at one with your scope sampling noise!
the other thing to remember is being 8 bit there will be a +-1 bit uncertainty, this will show up in any case as a 3 pixel thick line, just the nature of the beast, personally I can't understand why Rigol did not screen all of the analog circuitry
Dave, whats mu metal ?
thats interesting, where do I get this stuff, what sort of thickness does it come in ? if this is the answer thats probably why the scope (being quite cheap) was not sheilded in the first place because of the exspense of setting it all up.
I'd love to see a tutorial on how to use it to troubleshoot things like SPI buses, etc. I'm learning, but Dave's experience (and all of yours) sure cuts the learning curve down.I would also like to see this.
But either way, eight-full days from button click to my door-- not bad at all.
I'm emailing Dave the pictures of the analog section from my 1052E-- they're 2MB in size, and Dave's server only accepts 128KB attachments. Perhaps he can post them here, or somewhere? Don't expect too much-- I don't have a pro-grade macro-lens setup.
Thanks for the tips, TrentO!
Few hi res pics of the inside would be nice, especially "canned" analog section. I will take apart my 100MHz scope when it arrive, so that we can make a comparison ;)
Btw you can get rid of the plastic dust with the help of compressed air, DO NOT use vacuum cleaner!
flolic-- no vacuum cleaner, roger that. I just left it for now and put it back together. It still works. ;D
I just used it to troubleshoot my Tektronix 2445.
I'll take it apart again for close-ups of the analog front-end, probably tonight.
I wouldn't worry about the EMS tracking thing-- It's total B.S.-- according to the USPS shipping label on the box, they got it an hour-and-a-half after it reached customs. EMS claims that customs held on to it for three days. I think someone at EMS is behind on the manual data entry.
It all worked out, but they're definitely not a FedEx, UPS, DHL, or even USPS.
Now actually having done something with it-- the fan is definitely noisy-- more so than most PC's, except for those on hi-flow-gamer CPU's. I'm also a big fan (no pun intended) of the "Modern" color-scheme/skin. And it's FAST!
Speaking of hi-flow-gamer CPU's/PC's-- I was thinking about changing that clock crystal to a 200Mhz one, and liquid-cooling that sucker....
-Trent
Vacuum cleaner is ineffective, can cause ESD damage and you can very easily tear off some small SMT component if you accidentally touch PCB.
OTOH compressed air is joy to use, especially if it is from bigger size unit (that portable "briefcase" size air compressors without tank is no-go...). Canned air can be used too, but is not that effective as the real stuff.
I'm leaving my Rigol 'as-is' to remind me to buy the LeCroy or Tektronix O-scope next time.
Another tip for Trent: resize the photos before putting them online. I had to download them to my web server first, resize to 25% and only then load them on my laptop. I'm using limited 3G broadband, if you're wondering :D
Two questions:If you look into an alternative to Rigol then have a look at GW Instek oscilloscopes for quality.
1) What do we think of the Rigol vs Owon o-scope, say 5022S? Apart from 25 vs 50mhz.
Two questions:If you look into an alternative to Rigol then have a look at GW Instek oscilloscopes for quality.
1) What do we think of the Rigol vs Owon o-scope, say 5022S? Apart from 25 vs 50mhz.
- PC software is awful, really really bad (but the command set is full and works well)
My DS1102E finally arrived yesterday, I will open it in a day or two... ;D
- PC software is awful, really really bad (but the command set is full and works well)
There is some Linux command line scripting software around. No fancy GUI, but just the right tool for me to automate things.
thats nice and detailed, I think you put it on a scanner ?
PBut that diode right next to the big primary side electrolytic reached 94C!!!
Photography is my other hobby so making panoramic images is something I do a lot ;)
Let's go to PSU board:
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1484/rigolpsu.th.jpg) (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/rigolpsu.jpg/)
Few thoughts about temperatures, fan and fan noise. My plan was to reduce fan speed to lower noise. Before that I take some temperature measurements... I checked temperatures inside the scope with my IR thermometer. Hottest parts on the main board are definitely AD converters, followed by FPGA. They reached around 50 degrees Celsius. Other hot part is that 7905 regulator in the bottom left. But I think fan cooling is not needed for main board, those temperatures are relatively low.
On the other hand, parts of PSU get really hot. Left top (LM317) and left bottom (some diode) heatsinks are at 70C. But that diode right next to the big primary side electrolytic reached 94C!!! Room temperature was 20C.
I aborted the mission and leave fan at full speed :(
Front end, Dave's 1052 vs my 1102
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9227/rigol1052vs1102.th.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/rigol1052vs1102.jpg/)
Front end, Dave's 1052 vs my 1102
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9227/rigol1052vs1102.th.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/rigol1052vs1102.jpg/)
thanks for the side-by-side view frolic, great work there!
they are very similar, but there's differences in the pcb for sure. The 1052 looks like it's using a Cosmo KAQY214S SSR ( http://www.cosmo-ic.com/object/products/KAQY214S.pdf) instead of the mechanical relay of the 1102. Could this limit the bandwidth?
other than the components ralated to the SSR everything else seems the same to me?
they are very similar, but there's differences in the pcb for sure. The 1052 looks like it's using a Cosmo KAQY214S SSR ( http://www.cosmo-ic.com/object/products/KAQY214S.pdf) instead of the mechanical relay of the 1102. Could this limit the bandwidth?
other than the components ralated to the SSR everything else seems the same to me?
The board in my DS1052E is exactly like FLolic's-- down to the FT relays and silk-screened labels. The only difference is the minor 'patch' on the LCD driver IC on mine. I believe Dave has a slightly earlier rev board.
I would suspect the 'shaved' IC's in the analog section-- there's has to be a reason why they insist on defacing the labels.
Perhaps Rigol finally got tough on behalf of their authorized distributors. Who knows?
Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a dumping price
<...>
Did I miss the chance to get a decent entry-level scope for a bargain price? ???
And somehow convince yourself that you can trust the seller. That's where your balls of steal come into play.I got an offer from ebay seller to complete the transaction outside of ebay. I'd rather wait and see what happens next :D
Dealextreme still have it for $400:Yeah, that was the second place I checked, since the price was quite reasonable there. If nothing else comes up, I'll go for DE.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30573
Dave.
Has anyone bought from DealExtreme and/or can recommend them, or should I stick to the local (AU) retailer who at least I can call if something goes wrong..?
Unfortunately all the EBay sales are now gone, except for $699+ AUD items. :(
Hi guys,
I think I found our culprit: http://www.emona.com.au/
Yea I noticed that the support side of Rigol looks a bit crap but then you get what you pay for, they can't even make software that will run on vista !Having just used the software to load a saved .wfm waveform you're probably better without the software! It took me about 20 minutes to find how to load the file, it's in a very odd place. The software seems to work fine they've just never heard of usability.
Yea I noticed that the support side of Rigol looks a bit crap but then you get what you pay for, they can't even make software that will run on vista !
tbh i've never used the PC software, i just expected it to be crap so wont bother with it.
Hi folks,
The cheap ebay sellers are unfortunately gone :(
What is the best, and cheapest plase to buy a Rigol DS1052E? (Shipping to the Netherlands)
Niels
Hi Guys! Great info here. I've been lurking for a while watching all of Dave's videos and reading some posts. I just bought the Rigol DS1052E from an eBay seller, outside of eBay. They showed selling a couple units right at the end of last year for $419USD free shipping, and the reviews are all positive (overall 99.9%). Unfortunately the seller's auction is at $549 now, but I thought... "hey, you just sold one for $419 about a week ago... maybe I can still get one for that price". Sure enough, they were willing to deal with me ($419USD free shipping). 5 days ago I sent payment, the day after they shipped through EMS, and already today it's through US customs and in USPS's hot little hands (soon to be mine!).
If anyone wants the seller's info, please PM me. I don't want to get them in any kind of trouble if Rigol is forcing them to list it at new MSRP prices. I don't think it matters much, but I'd rather error on the safe side of karma. They were really great keeping me informed about shipping status via email, and I would definitely go back if this scope is everything I hope it will be.
That would be really sweet if we could modify our front ends to run up to 100MHz, but I'm ok with the limitations. I mean, it was only $419 for crying out loud and it's WAY more than I currently have (which is a couple super old analog scopes that are more like museum pieces).
-Brett
Hi, New here!
After watching that excellent video from our host, I plunged in with a purchase of the 100Mhz version 1102E. The unit appears to be working OK, and appeared NIB. Strange thing is that the calibration cert is dated Nov 2008? This unit came new from a US based online supply house. I know these probally don't move as fast as the 1050e does, but that date is from before the official release date. Could they still have had original stock from their first shipment? I don't want a "return" unit! The firmware is 1.05. Could someone check the firmware for there 1102E?
Thoughts?
The firmware is 1.05. Could someone check the firmware for there 1102E?
Hi, New here!
After watching that excellent video from our host, I plunged in with a purchase of the 100Mhz version 1102E. The unit appears to be working OK, and appeared NIB. Strange thing is that the calibration cert is dated Nov 2008? This unit came new from a US based online supply house. I know these probally don't move as fast as the 1050e does, but that date is from before the official release date. Could they still have had original stock from their first shipment? I don't want a "return" unit! The firmware is 1.05. Could someone check the firmware for there 1102E?
Thoughts?
Strange thing is that the calibration cert is dated Nov 2008? This unit came new from a US based online supply house. I know these probally don't move as fast as the 1050e does, but that date is from before the official release date. Could they still have had original stock from their first shipment? I don't want a "return" unit! The firmware is 1.05. Could someone check the firmware for there 1102E?
Thoughts?
BTW did your new rigols come with a protector sheet on the LCD? Mine didn't. I've never seen that before.
Anyone know if there's a list of changes/fixes published anywhere?
Anyone know if there's a list of changes/fixes published anywhere?
The firmware is 1.05. Could someone check the firmware for there 1102E?
Mine's a few months old. Firmware 00.01.06. Serial number is DS1EB104803185. Is the calibration cert on a piece of paper that came with yours? I can't remember getting one and don't know where I put it if I did! Don't think my screen had a protector, but it was well packed and not scratched.
I'm officially pissed off now.
I've just tried to order a rigol DS1204B in the US and was told by the shop owner that rigol has officially forbidden them to ship to germany! WTF !?!
...
Statement of Rigol about illegal sales channel
TO Rigol’s Customers
Thanks for your interest in Rigol’s products.
Recently, Rigol noticed that some Rigol products are sold directly from China to Europe.
In order to protect customer’s benefit, Rigol declares that these are illegal sales channels.
Rigol doesn’t authorize anybody to sell Rigol products directly from China to Europe.
Rigol also can’t guarantee the warranty service to the customers who buy products from
these illegal sales channels.
Some products from illegal sales channels are not even originally produced by Rigol
Technologies, Inc.
Rigol recommends that customers contact our authorized distributor to buy Rigol’s
products.
Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.
...
James Zhu
Regional Manager in European Market
...
seems like a fairly normal grey import ban, corporate capitalism at its best.
I'm officially pissed off now.
I've just tried to order a rigol DS1204B in the US and was told by the shop owner that rigol has officially forbidden them to ship to germany! WTF !?!
European shops are way too expensive. I don't feel like paying a penalty fee just because I don't happen to live somewhere else. There's a price difference of about 450$, and that's _after_ paying import tax. Seems like I will have to look for a different brand.
Yes, I know about import tax and such. Still it would've been a steal. The DS1204B is sold for 1850€ (about 2600$ US) in Germany. I just don't feel like subsidizing Rigol sales elsewhere by paying 'a little extra' for the scope here.
The DS1052E costs about 830$ US in Germany.
Well, because I really don't want the 50MHz one, but the 4CH 200MHz scope ;-)
they are very similar, but there's differences in the pcb for sure. The 1052 looks like it's using a Cosmo KAQY214S SSR ( http://www.cosmo-ic.com/object/products/KAQY214S.pdf) instead of the mechanical relay of the 1102. Could this limit the bandwidth?
other than the components ralated to the SSR everything else seems the same to me?
The board in my DS1052E is exactly like FLolic's-- down to the FT relays and silk-screened labels. The only difference is the minor 'patch' on the LCD driver IC on mine. I believe Dave has a slightly earlier rev board.
I would suspect the 'shaved' IC's in the analog section-- there's has to be a reason why they insist on defacing the labels.
Mastro Gippo October 13th, 2009 at 02:43
Mh.. The scratched 16 pin IC in the analog part should be an AD8370
http://www.analog.com/en/amplifiers-and-comparators/variable-gain-amplifiers/ad8370/products/product.html
but I don’t know why they are scratching it! There’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s a 750MHz part…
Rigol makes some 300 MHz scopes too. What if the analog front end on the 100 MHz scope is bandwidth limited also, and we've got filters on both models with different values? What if our *real* bandwidth can be even higher than 100 MHz?
I'd love to see what the results are with better lab equipment, is anyone gonna give it a go?
I'm not sure what's going on here, Channel 1 seems to be picking up the transients now. Maybe I had a poor connection when I took the earlier measurement.
Yes, I modified second channel on my 1102E last night. I removed both (HI & LO) caps, btw. they are 160pF on my scope. I don't have any function/signal generator that go beyond 100MHz range, so I used old FM tuner and pick up signal from local oscillator set up at 125MHz.
It seems that mod did not do anything to my scope, signal amplitude on modified channel is just marginally better than unmodified. I used standard probes. Today I will buy some BNC connectors and coax and make high bandwidth 50 ohm terminated probe.
But I noticed another thing when measuring complex signal (square wave, 32MHz xtal osc. and 200kHz osc. with joined outputs). On modified channel you can clearly see higher components of a signal, in a 250MHz range! So it seems that mod is actually working ;)
Just hope that that is real signal and not some kind of aliasing or ringing... ;D
I flipped to the underside, flabbergasted, and realized that those vias drop down to a couple more caps on the underside! In addition to those, there are two other sets near the signal input jack and the input of the variable gain amplifier.
I flipped to the underside, flabbergasted, and realized that those vias drop down to a couple more caps on the underside! In addition to those, there are two other sets near the signal input jack and the input of the variable gain amplifier.
Time to take it apart...
AGAIN!!! ;D ;D ;D
Sorry, nothing useful on the bottom side... :(
OK, I think I have narrowed down what kind of chip the ADC driver is. I thought I saw an extra pad on one of Dave's close-ups, which would have explained why I couldn't find an 8-lead package, but upon close inspection from top views I can't see that it would be the case. Browsing the ADC drivers (http://www.analog.com/en/amplifiers-and-comparators/differential-amplifiers/products/index.html#ADC_Drivers) at the Analog Devices website seemed futile, until I checked a supplier. These chips are available in packages not described on the AD website. I noticed that the screen print around the part seems to be 3x3 mm. This leads me to believe they must have some oddball part, but the PCB still looks like it would fit these two parts, which come with the squared edges.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=AD8350ARMZ20-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=AD8132ARMZ-ND
They are 900 MHz and 350 MHz respectively. I'll have to crack it open again and take some measurements on gain and voltage to be sure which part it is, still could be any of the other 8 pin parts. The version with the worst (feasible) bandwidth is the AD8137, with a bandwidth of 110 MHz. The only lower ones clock at 38 and 30 MHz. I can find it in a package with bevelled edges in 3x3 mm, but not with the square ones.
and.. here's the AD8138 in the package that's in the scope:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=AD8138ARMZ-ND
A 320 MHz part.
I noticed the DS1052E has an option MemDepth which lets you set the device to Normal (16K/8K) or Long Mem (1M/512K).
I could understand having this setting so you could save more waveforms on the device, but is there another benefit to having this setting that I am overlooking?
Another newbie stumbling here from Hack-a-day. I'm in the market for my first scope, this is fascinating reading.
Hello everybody.
I am new to the forum - but I think I have to correct a few things here... :-[
Respectfully, your circuit is missing some information. There are two vias - possibly both controls (maybe one for the selectable BW limit and one for 50 MHz limit?). R1 in your circuit is not going to ground, it meets a via and connects to a capacitor which goes to ground.
so are you saying that if the variac diode is shorted all filtered limits are removed so the scope will be open to all frequencies ?
Not exactly for all frequencies, but at least to the limit the amplifier poses - and not if shorted, but if the diode would be removed. (The caps and resistors still present lowpass filters on both pin8 and 9, but this should be neglectible).
Andreas
probablt not, the scope has a "bigge brother" capable of 100 MHz so it is the general concensus that the two are the same one but the 50 MHz version has had a limitation put on it
well we won't know until it is done, the scope samples 1GS/s (1 billion samples per second) in single channel mode so you have this to consider as well, with a 480 MHz signal that will be just over 2 samples per waveform, you will need at least 10 samples per cycle to acurately display the signal so thats 100 MHz although you may get way with a little more. There is also the actual limitations of the input circuitry
Sample rate must also be considered. Many oscilloscopes on the market today incorporate a form of interleaving, where by the maximum specified sample rate of the oscilloscope is achievable when only using one or two channels of a four-channel oscilloscope. Insufficient sample rate will lower the measurement bandwidth of your oscilloscope and result in signal aliasing. One key to good measurement is to ensure that you have sufficient sample rate on a per-channel basis for all the channels you want to simultaneously use on the oscilloscope. For oscilloscopes with 2-Ghz bandwidth, and greater, the sample rate of the oscilloscope should be at least two times the bandwidth of the oscilloscope. Therefore, for a 2ghz oscilloscope, the per-channel sample rate should be a minimum of 4 G/samples sec.
Thanks for the info, reading http://www.analogzone.com/iot_1115.pdf suggests 1.5ghz as a minimum. Also this note about bandwidth make me think this scope has no chance to measure USB 2.0.
http://www.analogzone.com/iot_1115.pdfQuote
Well that's what I said
I just verified that this does in fact disable the bandwidth limit option in the Ch2 (modified) menu.
So the next step is to take it apart again and check those vias to see what kind of signals they're giving. One of them should respond only to the bandwidth limit select, the other is likely the 50 MHz limit, and perhaps there's a way to bypass the other without cutting the trace.
Otherwise, fiddling with the software may be the only choice.
0000000: 0104 ffff 1700 0000 00ff ffff 8025 0000 .............%..
0000010: 0009 0001 0001 0100 a086 0100 1900 0000 ................
0000020: 0000 803f 0000 0001 a086 0100 e7ff 0000 ...?............
0000030: 0000 803f 0000 0000 0000 0100 0000 0700 ...?............
0000040: 0000 0000 0000 0000 cdcc cc3d 1400 b5ff ...........=....
0000050: 0300 9600 0000 0000 0100 0000 0000 0000 ................
0000060: 0000 ffff 4042 0f00 0000 0000 0000 0000 ....@B..........
0000070: 0000 0000 a086 0100 0000 0000 0000 0000 ................
0000080: 0000 0000 0000 0800 0020 0000 0000 0000 ......... ......
0000090: 0800 0010 0500 0000 bd37 0635 5c8f c23e .........7.5\..>
00000a0: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0002 1900 e7ff 0000 ................
00000b0: bd37 8635 0000 0000 bd37 8635 0000 0000 .7.5.....7.5....
00000c0: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0000 0000 0100 ................
00000d0: cdcc 4c3e cdcc 4c3e 0100 0000 0100 0000 ..L>..L>........
00000e0: 0100 0000 0000 0003 0101 07ff 4042 0f00 ............@B..
00000f0: 0000 0000 4042 0f00 0000 0000 0000 0000 ....@B..........
0000100: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 ................
0000110: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 ffff bd37 8635 .............7.5
0000120: 00ff ffff bd37 8635 0000 0000 0000 0000 .....7.5........
0000130: 0100 01ff 0000 0000 0101 0101 0101 0101 ................
0000140: 0101 0001 0000 0000 0100 ffff 3aa3 14a9 ............:...
0000150: 00ff 0000 0001 0203 0405 0607 0001 0203 ................
0000160: 0405 0607 0000 0000 0000 0000 0007 0700 ................
0000170: 0007 0708 0202 0202 0202 0202 0202 0202 ................
0000180: 0202 0202 0000 0202 0202 0202 0202 0202 ................
0000190: 0202 0202 0202 0000 8ded b5a0 f7c6 b03e ...............>
00001a0: 0100 00ff 0000 0000 ffff ffff 0000 0000 ................
00001b0: ffff ffff 0000 0000 ffff ffff 0000 0000 ................
00001c0: ffff ffff 0000 0000 ffff ffff 0000 0000 ................
00001d0: ffff ffff 0000 0000 ffff ffff 0000 0000 ................
00001e0: ffff ffff 0000 0000 ffff ffff 0000 0000 ................
00001f0: ffff ffff 0000 0000 ffff ffff 0000 0000 ................
... This was from a DS1052E -- anyone else care to do the same so we can compare?
000000 01 04 FF FF 0C 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF 80 25 00 00 .............%..
000010 00 09 00 01 00 01 01 FF 40 42 0F 00 00 00 FF FF ........@B......
000020 00 00 80 3F 00 00 00 00 D0 07 00 00 00 00 FF FF ...?............
000030 00 00 80 3F 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 07 00 ...?............
000040 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF CD CC CC 3D 14 00 B5 FF ...........=....
000050 03 00 96 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
000060 00 00 FF FF 00 C2 EB 0B 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
000070 00 00 00 00 A0 86 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
000080 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 .........@......
000090 08 00 00 10 05 00 FF FF BD 37 06 35 5C 8F C2 3E .........7.5\..>
0000A0 00 00 00 00 77 BE 1F 3E 00 02 19 00 E7 FF FF FF ....w..>........
0000B0 BD 37 86 35 00 00 00 FF BD 37 86 35 00 00 FF FF .7.5.....7.5....
0000C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 01 FF ................
0000D0 CD CC 4C 3E CD CC 4C 3E 01 00 00 00 01 00 FF FF ..L>..L>........
0000E0 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 01 01 07 FF 40 42 0F 00 ............@B..
0000F0 00 00 00 00 40 42 0F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ....@B..........
000100 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF ................
000110 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF BD 37 86 35 .............7.5
000120 00 FF FF FF BD 37 86 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF .....7.5........
000130 01 00 01 FF 00 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 ................
000140 01 01 00 01 00 00 00 FF 01 00 FF FF FA 5C 78 6B .............\xk
000150 00 FF 00 00 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 00 01 02 03 ................
000160 04 05 06 07 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 07 07 00 ................
000170 00 07 07 08 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 ................
000180 02 02 02 02 00 00 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 02 ................
000190 02 02 02 02 02 02 FF FF 8D ED B5 A0 F7 C6 B0 3E ...............>
0001A0 01 00 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ................
0001B0 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ................
0001C0 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ................
0001D0 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ................
0001E0 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF ................
0001F0 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 ................
Here you go:
Secret serial commands (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13549739&postcount=727)
Programming guide (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14475634&postcount=830)
Sorry for the other forum registration, but I can't attach them here due to file size limits and the programming guide is essential. It communicates via National Instruments VISA commands, you'll have to write your own software to do it. Python has an easy library for interfacing with VISA devices once you successfully install the drivers from your CD. I just don't have the time because of school for the next month and a half or so, so I hope you guys figure out the rest! There's firmware for the MSO version there too, which I'm sure is very interesting. Deep in the thread somewhere were some pictures and circuit sketches of the logic analyser head.
Thanks hackaday for all of the attention to this great hack!
:INFO:MODEL DS1xxxx
Sets(!!) the model returned by "*IDN?" and shown in the "System Info" dialog.
Can someone try sending :INFO:MODEL DS1102E on a DS1052E and see if it lifts the frequency cutoff? I don't have any RS232 cables handy, and haven't had much luck getting the TDM stuff to compile for OS X. :/Yes, I tried it - it does not work... Also, when you powercycle the unit, it becomes a DS1052E again. The firmware also checks the serialnumber, which starts with DS1ED for the 1052 and with DS1EB for the 1102 series. Hmm, a wonder what might happen, if you change model and the serialnumber.......... :-X
well go on then and let us know the result ;D
you did it ? converted a DS1052E into a DS1102E ? brilliant !!! (or did I not read between the lines properly ?)At least, the SYSTEM INFO page states so ;D, and when you look at this I would say YES!:
Nice work! I wonder what Rigol thinks about your clever hack.I think, they don't really like it - but if some people, who never would have considered buying a DS1102 (like me), now buy a DS1052 - it is still raised profit!
So when will we have some instructions on how to do this ? cmon this has got to be sharedStill didn't get it? It's easy as 123, no instructions needed - just call your device the right name (DS1102E) and serialnumber (DS1EDxxxx)
At least, the SYSTEM INFO page states so ;D, and when you look at this I would say YES!:
- the lowpass switching diode (I did not find a SMD part with "FC" mark, but I guess now it's only a switching diode) is reverse biased with around 5V when BW limit is OFF (see diagram, it was forward biased with 100mV before...!)
- the timebase goes down to 2ns/div
- an 80MHz signal shows about the same amplitude as a 50MHz signal, a 150MHz signal is attenuated by only about 5-6dB
I am not sure, if the circuit of the 1052 and 1102 are indeed identical, but for me it is identical enough ;D
Nice work! I wonder what Rigol thinks about your clever hack.
ok so just to point out I'm useless at programming and that sort of thing...
well they are still making a profit, infact I can't really see why they bothered doing what they did, as usual economics has gotten in the way...
Well, I though, you could read in between the lines, that I already did so - and when I tell you that I just closed the cover of my new DS1102E for the moment and now look for a schematic and/or pictures of the LA part of the 1xxxD, guess what this means..... ;D
Fine, fine, take all the glory and girls ...You can have one of mine :D
I still wonder where they're storing that info.I still think it is the EEPROM - in a scrambled way.
I dunno what's actually stored on that 24LC04; the device will power on without it attached to the board, but it hangs at the loading screen.[/li][/list]And that's why I think, the model info is stored in it - the rigol simply doesn't know who he is without it...
There's an 8-pin card edge connector on the board, directly adjacent to the EEPROM. I had hoped that it was a factory programming interface for that EEPROM, but instead it's something quite different: It's the SPI master bus, and you could connect a SPI flash chip to it and the Blackfin would boot from it (according to the datasheet). If we number the pins as 1 <notch> 2 3 4 on the top and 5 6 7 <notch> 8 on the bottom, then the pins appear to be SCK <notch> MISO GND MOSI / PF2 Vcc GND <notch> BMODE0. BMODE1 is shorted to Vcc; pull BMODE0 to ground to enable booting from external SPI flash. This is probably how they program the units in the factory, and could be used to recover from a bad firmware flash.Ahhh, that was one of the remaining secrets I encountered the last days.... Thanks for demystifying!
There's also a (presumably) perfectly usable JTAG port for the Blackfin -- pinout seems to be (in order from 1-14) Vref !EMU <empty> GND GND TMS GND TCK GND !TRST GND TDI GND TDO, but I haven't tried it.And another think I was about to find out.
The six-pin header near the Altera chip is the programming header for the Lattice CPLD; I didn't bother trying it, presumably it's fused off.You're perfect - that was the last on my list! ;D
Lemme know if you find those LA schematics, please. :)With the biggest pleasure!
Fine, fine, take all the glory and girls...
Lemme know if you find those LA schematics, please. :)
Do you mean these schematics (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958&page=26#post11714861) that Trevor came up with, over a year ago?I was aware of this thread (see my first sentence above ;) ), but that's only part of the story - we need to know which signal on the 40-pin header is what.
There are official last FW updates...
Surprice: later today there are not anymore these FW update files.
Yep. Here today, gone... today! That was certainly quick. Makes you wonder...Wow - that was quick... :D
I think RIGOL is already aware of our thread - as it was announced on Hack'A'Day and at rcgroups.com - which is frequented by RIGOL people...
I was aware of this thread (see my first sentence above ;) ), but that's only part of the story - we need to know which signal on the 40-pin header is what.
Things are more complicated on the 68-pin SCSI side, which carries the differential signals. I'd think that's what would be of interest to you.You're absolutely right! :D
You're absolutely right! :D
well they are still making a profit, infact I can't really see why they bothered doing what they did, as usual economics has gotten in the way...
These comments, as well as the remainder of your ranting is complete rubbish. You have no clue what you're talking about. Sorry, Simon. Just because you "can't see why", doesn't mean that there isn't a very sound reason why. If it weren't for the ability to offer a range of products at differing price-points, many products wouldn't exist at all. Lots of manufacturers do it every day. And thank goodness for all of us.
When Rigol had their previous C-series out, do you actually think they built 4-DIFFERENT models, with different logic circuits, PCBs, and layouts for the 25 MHz, 40, 60 and 100 MHz units? Nonsense. They designed and built a single unit, with some mechanism for setting its capabilities (internal jumpers, whatever). In this case, they're doing it with software, and left a rather large door open. Not the smartest thing in the world to do, considering who they're selling to (economy-minded EE's and hobbyists).
Do you think that when Tek or Agilent or LeCroy or whoever make a _range_ of instruments available, they go through and put different quality components on each model, to justify the pricing differentials? If so, you are sadly mistaken. In this case, you're *itching about a $200 difference on 2 Rigol models. In those other cases, we're talking about $thousands. Of course, there they are a lot more clever about it. ;)
- Mark
Here is picture about RigolDS1102E and DS1052Et.
Sorry pictures quality is not good because fast snapshot...
Both Rigol get same signal from HP8161A with double output.
(outputs are not exactly same but well enough for this purpose)
Signal risetime is <1,3ns
As you can see in pictures, 1052 and 1102 have now same risetime (and simple it means also very much same BW). Later I will test with 70ps pulse and try look more deep.
I personally hope that peoples do NOT make big noise about this... specially in many different internet stores "review" articles. Rigol is not stupid (world #2 in scopes)... and maybe they make some not so nice things... and it means money.
yea they develooped one product and made two out of it simple I said that at the end of my post. I just don't like waste thats all.
the trick they pulled has only bought them a little time.
now countless DS1052e users are going to covert their cheaply bought scopes to DS1102E scopes with very little effort
Oh and chances are they do already know it has been hacked, I'm sure they have been quivering since the notion was brought up that the 1052 and 1102 are so similar that they must be the same unit with something done to the 1052 to keep it under restraint.
They will probably start working on new firmware that will anull the mod like changing the location of the information.
Do you think that when Tek or Agilent or LeCroy or whoever make a _range_ of instruments available, they go through and put different quality components on each model, to justify the pricing differentials? If so, you are sadly mistaken. In this case, you're *itching about a $200 difference on 2 Rigol models. In those other cases, we're talking about $thousands. Of course, there they are a lot more clever about it. ;)... snip ...
Oh and chances are they do already know it has been hacked, I'm sure they have been quivering since the notion was brought up that the 1052 and 1102 are so similar that they must be the same unit with something done to the 1052 to keep it under restraint. They will probably start working on new firmware that will anull the mod like changing the location of the information.
Hmm, I think I'm close - but it's not quite working for me yet..Yupp, that's because I cursed any other scope on earth to be immune to the change 8) !
Changing the serial number from DS1EDxx to DS1EBxx seems to have worked fine, and persists across restarts.
But the model always reverts to DS1052E on restart, any clues what I might be doing wrong?
Thanks in advance!
Also I have not seen exactly specifications about Rigol "risetime" measurements.
(but remember I have not test frequency response curve shape. Only with these point frequencies. (yes I have fast look with hand sweep and I can not see any big differencies over band. )
I'm not seeing anything that looks remotely like a model number or serial number. This was from a DS1052E -- anyone else care to do the same so we can compare?
Changing the serial number from DS1EDxx to DS1EBxx seems to have worked fine, and persists across restarts.
But the model always reverts to DS1052E on restart, any clues what I might be doing wrong?
rf-loop,
thanks for all the additional information, and all the testing you've been doing. Those 200 MHz results are quite impressive.Also I have not seen exactly specifications about Rigol "risetime" measurements.
The specs in the back of their models indicate 7 nS risetimes for their 50 MHz units, and 3.5 nS for their 100 MHz models. These are standard industry values.Quote(but remember I have not test frequency response curve shape. Only with these point frequencies. (yes I have fast look with hand sweep and I can not see any big differencies over band. )
Yes, I understand that, and it's a point worth remembering. Unless you have a sweep generator, it's hard to examine the entire bandwidth.
- Mark
I mean that I do not know how exactly Rigol oscilloscope measure risetime. There is no data in specifications. What values are take for 10 and 90% points. (highest value or some value after shoots as I have see some scopes do)
Which one did you change first? I.e., writing the SN may force an update of non-volatile memory, while the Model does not. If Andreas changed his Model first, then the SN; and you did things in the opposite order, that could explain it.
- Mark
what you forget is that intel set out to get fast chips and through the nature of the process get some that won't perform so run them slower and make them still usable, this is clever and good as it lowers the price all round and is less waste, what rigol did was make a 100 MHz scope and then sell a load with a limitation that was artificially imposed. of course there were valid reasons i suppose.
I look at it a little bit differently.
As far as the economics -- this is a bit like like microprocessors, where (e.g.) Intel will make one batch of chips and sell them at three different speed grades, depending on how they test. This has a couple of benefits for Intel:
is all this being done with software provided on the original cd ?
from the commands manual I downloaded do I correctly understand that the whole scope can be command line controlled froma pc as it would from it's own control panel ? and of course for doing things like this
I was astonished from the beginning, that nobody had ever tried to change modelnumber and serialnumber before - since the docs about the "secret commands" are already dangling around a while. Perhaps all the fuzz about RIGOL losing money is obsolete, if this "patch" only works by chance...
As for the LA module - yes, it's also possible to turn DS1000E into DS1000D but you have to build not only external, but also internal LA module with ALTERA FPGA and ISSI SRAM...Ah, this is what I wanted to know! Someone once wrote, that the 40 pin header near the front of the PCB would go directly to the "SCSI" connector on the front bezel - which I doubted, and unfortunately was right... OK, so the 1xxxE -> 1xxxD "modding" is buried for me, as I already own an Intronix Logicport LA (nice part btw.!), it would just have been a nice addition to i.e. have more trigger channels.
is all this being done with software provided on the original cd ?
from the commands manual I downloaded do I correctly understand that the whole scope can be command line controlled froma pc as it would from it's own control panel ? and of course for doing things like this
Not sure that there are actual apps on the CD, but there are some programming examples in the PDF which show you how to use the required libraries (I think these were on the CD, else they're on the rigol site).
I used a Linux machine, which has support for USBTMC (USB Test and Measurement Class) in the kernel. As soon as the scope is connected, it appears as a character device which you can read from and write to.
yes I think there are just examples available on the CD no actual software. what is the easiest software to use ?
yes I think there are just examples available on the CD no actual software. what is the easiest software to use ?
Congratulations to the person who suggested that changing the model and serial number actually does convert the scope into a 100 MHz model. It really works! When I found and documented the previously undocumented commands to set those numbers, I would never have thought that it would be so easy to upgrade the scope.
is all this being done with software provided on the original cd ?
from the commands manual I downloaded do I correctly understand that the whole scope can be command line controlled from a pc as it would from it's own control panel ? and of course for doing things like this
guess I'll be soldering my caps back in soon as I get back to Oklahoma.
is all this being done with software provided on the original cd ?
That is one way, though there are simpler.Quotefrom the commands manual I downloaded do I correctly understand that the whole scope can be command line controlled from a pc as it would from it's own control panel ? and of course for doing things like this
Yes, that is correct. I think you're still making this out to be far more difficult than it needs to be, thinking you need to "program" something. Assuming you have a serial cable, and HyperTerminal on your PC (comes standard on all WinBoxes), just download these instructions (http://www.rigol.com/upload/accessory/20102/2010221051162027445.pdf) on how to use HyperTerminal to send text commands back and forth to your Rigol. No special software required... just a simple terminal emulator. And all the required settings you'll need to use it (setting baudrate, etc.) are described in the Rigol manual referenced.
- Mark
As for the LA module - yes, it's also possible to turn DS1000E into DS1000D but you have to build not only external, but also internal LA module with ALTERA FPGA and ISSI SRAM...
would you reccomend modding the hardware too ?
Mark those instructions seem to relate to the RS232 connector, will it all work with USB as well by choosing different ports ? can't wait to hook the scope up and start playing.
One final question... where does the Reference Memory come from? I've copied up to a Meg into there at times.Maybe the second half of the flash?
Mark those instructions seem to relate to the RS232 connector,
will it all work with USB as well by choosing different ports?
"Reference Waveforms are saved waveforms to be selected for display. The reference function will be available after saving the selected waveform to non-volatile memory."One final question... where does the Reference Memory come from? I've copied up to a Meg into there at times.Maybe the second half of the flash?
"Reference Waveforms are saved waveforms to be selected for display. The reference function will be available after saving the selected waveform to non-volatile memory."One final question... where does the Reference Memory come from? I've copied up to a Meg into there at times.Maybe the second half of the flash?
*IDN?
Rigol Technologies,•–•–––––––•••–••••–––••––––––––•–––••––•–••—–––––•––•–––
–––•••–—••–•–•––•–•–••—•––•––•–•–••–•––•–•–•––––•––––•––•–•–––—••–•–––••,••–•–
•––•–•–••—•––•––•–•–••–•––•–•–•––––•––––•––•–•–––—••–•–––••,00.02.02.02.00
guess I'll be soldering my caps back in soon as I get back to Oklahoma.
I will not, because my 1102E has even greater bandwidth without them and I don't need BW limit function ;D
We have 400 MS/s 100 MHz model C Rigol scopes at school, and I know that they pale in comparison to the DS1052E.
The low sample rate makes it look like all noise anywhere over 50 MHz or so.
...according to Dave, 1/10 of sampling rate is about the best a real-time readout can do.
So were is Dave ? he should see this
These are with high bandwidth resistive 50 ohm terminated probe. You can see excessive ringing, this is most likely because of bad termination (I used old & cheap 10Base2 ethernet T-BNC and terminator)
Someone here (and my apologies for not going back to give proper credit), has already pointed out that terminating your probes with 50-ohms externally, is not equivalent to using a scope with proper 50-ohm internal terminations. The reason is that internally, the Rigol scopes still have 1Meg-ohm || ~15 pF.
QuoteThe low sample rate makes it look like all noise anywhere over 50 MHz or so.
But now you've lost me. The maximum (real-time) sample rates on the 1000C are 200 MSa/400 MSa, for 2 and 1 channel respectively. The sample rates on the 1000E are 250 MSa/500 MSa under the same conditions. The oft-quoted 1 GSa/sec sampling rate is limited to single-channel operation, capturing into the smaller ShortMemory only. That's because there's not enough channel bandwidth to transfer acquistions at 1 GSa into the larger ISSI memory. ShortMemory is retained internal to one of the VLSI chips, possibly the Cyclone, though probably the BlackFin, since that's where all the processing is done. I'm sure someone here would know for certain.
So you're saying that a 20% slower (maximum) sampling rate makes a huge difference in performance on the 1000C scopes?
- Mark
...according to Dave, 1/10 of sampling rate is about the best a real-time readout can do.
I'm surprised to hear that Dave made that claim. Especially since it's not true. ...
...according to Dave, 1/10 of sampling rate is about the best a real-time readout can do.
I'm surprised to hear that Dave made that claim. Especially since it's not true. You don't need 10-times oversampling to be able to accurately reconstruct a waveshape. Assuming a gaussian-distribution (the normal case), you can exactly reconstruct any arbitrary waveform, using sin(x)/x with as little as 2.5x oversampling. However, to accomplish that requires very good filters (i.e., expensive), and with the quality of filtering on most consumer-grade instruments, you actually need ~4x oversampling to achieve the same results. (To get technical, it varies, depending on the instrument, from 3-5x... but 4x is a good rule-of-thumb.)
But 10x is really overkill. Thus even the 400MSa on the earlier 100MHz 1000C-series was perfectly fine. Based on your claim, they'd only be good to 40 MHz (and the 100 MHz-version of the 1000E would top out at 50 MHz).
- Mark
Dave has taken a break, he posted a note in the "Announcements" forum saying he's going walkabout for a while. I'm sure the deluge of e-mails and consistent output of quality video blogs has been taxing his time for a while now!
You're saying it's 20% slower maximum, but that's actually the minimum. The maximum would be 600 MS/s slower with both scopes in single channel operation, and 300 MS/s with both scopes in dual channel operation. That's 50% and 50% maximum difference. The minimum difference would be 20% with the DS1052E in dual-channel operation and the C model in single channel operation.
I do say this makes a huge difference in performance, I operated them side by side to test my modifications and the noise in the C model made the readings far worse than even my 50 MHz unmodified channel.
I'm surprised to hear that Dave made that claim. Especially since it's not true. You don't need 10-times oversampling to be able to accurately reconstruct a waveshape. Assuming a gaussian-distribution (the normal case), you can exactly reconstruct any arbitrary waveform, using sin(x)/x with as little as 2.5x oversampling. However, to accomplish that requires very good filters (i.e., expensive), and with the quality of filtering on most consumer-grade instruments, you actually need ~4x oversampling to achieve the same results. (To get technical, it varies, depending on the instrument, from 3-5x... but 4x is a good rule-of-thumb.)
But 10x is really overkill. Thus even the 400MSa on the earlier 100MHz 1000C-series was perfectly fine. Based on your claim, they'd only be good to 40 MHz (and the 100 MHz-version of the 1000E would top out at 50 MHz).
One issue with applying the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theory to DSO's is that the theory talks about the total bandwidth of the signal. The bandwidth of an oscilloscope is the -3dB point. The bandwidth in the sampling theory is the highest frequency component. This would require a hard cut-off above 100MHz, as opposed to the Gaussian roll-off that's normal for oscilloscopes. Some of the high-end oscilloscopes, which do oversample less than 10x because they can't make the ADC's and memory fast enough, have a much sharper input filter (there's an Agilent appnote about this). Because your signal may have higher frequency components, you can't treat it like a simple Nyquist reconstruction, so more samples are useful.
Agilent did a paper on noise in digital scopes a while back, and it was quite illuminating. Even very expensive scopes can exhibit surprisingly high levels of relative noise, under some circumstances as much as 50% of one vertical division on a peak-to-peak basis! Turn on infinite Persistence, and things can get pretty ugly. ;)
Agilent did a paper on noise in digital scopes a while back, and it was quite illuminating. Even very expensive scopes can exhibit surprisingly high levels of relative noise, under some circumstances as much as 50% of one vertical division on a peak-to-peak basis! Turn on infinite Persistence, and things can get pretty ugly. ;)
They also did a nice job of dispelling the myth that digital scopes are intrinsically "noiser" than analog scopes. At first look, it seems obvious that the signals on a digital scope are much noiser, but that's attributable mostly to the difference in acquisition and display methods. I.e., the higher peak-to-peak noise levels you see on your digital scope are captured and displayed instantaneously. The exact same signal displayed on an analog scope will show much less noise, simply because of the persistence of the phosphor.
I.e., the random peak-to-peak fluctuations don't occur with sufficient frequency to continually repaint on the screen... so you don't see them. What you do see are those parts of the signal that occur over and over again. Or in other words, the analog scope has built-in automatic averaging. Turn averaging on with your Rigol (or any DSO), and see how much cleaner things look! Almost analog-like. :) As little as 4x can make a big difference.
- Mark
I beg to differ my rigol is noisy and the only way to cure it is use the inernal filtering and hope you don't have to measure in the same band as the noise
Damn, the post notification mail didn't work, and I discovered the news just today!
I just made the mod myself, and IT WORKS GREAT!! Thanks everyone... I should add a few info about my experience:
The correct method is to changhe the serial number first, then the model number, then you can power cycle the scope. Keep your fingers away from the "enter" key!! If you press it instead of the alt+010 combination, it will add a line return at the end of the serial number. Always double check the results of the query commands before power cycling.
My father did some tests with a professional signal generator, you can see the data and graphs in the attached document. Somehow excel won't let me set the horizontal scale to logarithmic, so I left everything as-is.
I'm happy! ;D
I connected pulse generator directly to the scope and there is no ringing any more ;D
you can see the data and graphs in the attached document.
..some tests with a professional signal generator....
I was swapping back and forth between 100mhz to 50mhz doing some testing and accidently left the E off the model number and the scope still booted up fine to my surprise. I never noticed I have left the E off the model number until I looked at the scope wondering why the model number was wrong :) It fired up with DS1102 as 100mhz ok luckily.
I ask becouse there is something wrong!
there is minimum 3 posibilities:
1. Test configuration is bad? (bad cable/missing or fail termination.)
2. Your oscilloscope is fail. (not my first opinion becouse both channels equal)
3. Signal generator is fail. (leveling defect)
What makes me think, maybe we should try to rename the scope as DS1152E or DS1202E and get even more from it ;DOr maybe 1204D, and suddenly two additional BNC and a SCSI like connector blossom up on the front ;D ;D
P.S. BTW, I wanted to say "thanks" for those exceptional detailed photos you did of the Rigol internals. The combined panoramic shots were phenominally good, and extremely well lit. Really amazing. Thanks!
Or maybe 1204D, and suddenly two additional BNC and a SCSI like connector blossom up on the front ;D ;D
I want ask: What are numbers in Y scale? (My quess (becouse these shown numbers) is that they are scope measured RMS and if they are, please connect this 50ohm terminator and test agen ;) ). Sig gen output is for 50ohm load.)
What are oscilloscope settings in this measure. Same settings in whole frequency scale? (scope mV/div, equtime or realtime? x ns/div? normal memory? Sinx/x on/off?)
What is signal exactly connection to oscilloscope inputs. (cable type/termination? calibration or some opinion how accurate leveling over used freq range = also if it is R&S it may be fail.)
If I or somebody tell data/numbers but not tell how I get data/numbers they are nearly or just as garbage... ;)
I ask becouse there is something wrong!
there is minimum 3 posibilities:
1. Test configuration is bad? (bad cable/missing or fail termination.)
2. Your oscilloscope is fail. (not my first opinion becouse both channels equal)
3. Signal generator is fail. (leveling defect)
If all is ok with test: 1052Emod or 1102E frequency response (flatness) is never as bad as in picture. If picture freq response is true for these scopes they are just as toys or garbace stuffs. (but they are not if they work normally)
But in real: Simple, I think test configuration fails ;)
I suppose that only way for check if is it genuine instrument is by serial number?
How?
How could it be remotely economical to counterfit such a vertical market product as an oscilloscope and sell it for $400???
My DS1052E seems to have nice knobs and buttons and a good finish, at least on the outside.
If it is a counterfit then I would like this company to make me a $1000 Lexus or BMW please.
I think the problems I described a few posts back (scope locking up, corrupted system info display) might have been due to me hitting return before alt-010.
How could it be remotely economical to counterfit such a vertical market product as an oscilloscope and sell it for $400???
My DS1052E seems to have nice knobs and buttons and a good finish, at least on the outside.
If it is a counterfit then I would like this company to make me a $1000 Lexus or BMW please.
I think the problems I described a few posts back (scope locking up, corrupted system info display) might have been due to me hitting return before alt-010.
Sign gen (R&S) out (N or BNC)-------50ohm cable -------- (50ohm GOOD terminator!)-BNC Rigol CHx
I think the problems I described a few posts back (scope locking up, corrupted system info display) might have been due to me hitting return before alt-010.Yes and no (and maybe :D); I happened to do the same mistake, but the scope didn't lock or corrupt; only difference was, when sending the first *idn? command, it replied
Rigol Technologies, DS1052E, DS1ED112404432
, 00.02.02.02.00
instead ofRigol Technologies, DS1052E, DS1ED112404432, 00.02.02.02.00
So... you're not talking about a T splitter with the signal from one end and 2 100ohm resistor in parallel wired to the other, right? :-\
Hi,
I've been following this thread with interest. Can someone please summarise the steps needed to convert the DS1052E to 100Mhz?
Thanks.
David.
I don't see the reason for people to be smug or try and hide the information (or make vague references to how "easy" it is but not describe anything).
Instead of all this Alt 0 1 0 business why dont you just download a simply terminal program that does the job nicely, I found this http://www.compuphase.com/software_termite.htm looks like it will do the job! All you need to do is set the com port up and your done.
Split the cable in the middle and swap pins 2&3. Leave 5 (gnd) connected. Based on previous posts pertaining to the use of simple 3-pin serial, the rest of the pins should be OK to be left disconnected.
-Tony
Usually people do this to encourage people to figure it out themselves. But not with bad intentions! Especially in this case, the solution is really trivial and can be found by anyone reading the hints given in previous posts. By "forcing" them to learn and search a bit, you help them getting familiar with what they are going to do and take more responsibility for their actions.
By the way, I didn't change the serial number on mine, I just changed the single character 'D' to 'B' so the number still matches the old one.
I saved the log file of the session for future reference too.
I really lament the loss of rs232 serial ports and also parallel ports from modern computers. Those were great reliable interfaces when you just needed to get the job done quick and dirty. Now you have to go all USB, and nothing is quick and easy anymore :(
Split the cable in the middle and swap pins 2&3. Leave 5 (gnd) connected. Based on previous posts pertaining to the use of simple 3-pin serial, the rest of the pins should be OK to be left disconnected.
-Tony
Am I right in connecting each pin in the plug to the same numbered pin of the other plug ? I'd rather reconnect them all to save having wires floating around, I may also be using this at work so need it to look like its not that crazy
by did it, do you mean you also did the 1052 to 1102 conversion?
If you look at the files on the disk that came with your scope there is a document that gives example code for controlling your scope from a visual basic or visual c program (although maybe over usb, i can't remember and don't have the file in front of me).
I'm getting quite enthusiastic about this thing where you can control the scope via a pc, is there any way of making use of this to setup the whole scope to the defaults you want ? say some sort of batch file ? I suppose there is also the possibility of having a uC control the scope.
The firmware images don't appear to be signed, so they could be modified easily
they are 4194325-byte files, which seems to me like a 21-byte header plus a 4MB firmware image. The header is:
0000000: 4453 3130 3030 4520 2020 3032 2e30 322e 3032 2e30 30 DS1000E 02.02.02.00
There's no room for a hash, so you could do whatever you want to the file.
Unfortunately, this means that there's no sort of bootloader which could recover corrupted firmware, so your options would be to desolder the NOR flash holding the firmware and reprogram it using a chip programmer, or try to get the 13-pin JTAG-looking connector working.
Actually I didn't read this until I had spent 10 minutes trying to figure out why I couldn't send commands to the DS1052E..it was because I was trying to use the enter key and instead should hold down alt and press "0","1","0"
How many pictures we can find what are take inside PCB's from both models. If original factory made 1102 or 1052, are there differencies or are these seen differencies only revision differences. (specially in PCB just after BNC connector.)
I can't imagine the R&D that would be involved in accurately counterfitting the Rigol DS1052E and getting it to perform similar to the true model, not to mention creating all of the injection molds for the various plastic components and buttons. Then they would have to source all of the analog parts....
How many pictures we can find what are take inside PCB's from both models. If original factory made 1102 or 1052, are there differencies or are these seen differencies only revision differences. (specially in PCB just after BNC connector.)
So far, none of the DS1052E internals I've seen have the 2nd switching relay in the front-end, which the 1102E seem to have.
- Mark
So far, none of the DS1052E internals I've seen have the 2nd switching relay in the front-end, which the 1102E seem to have.
My DS1052E (...with pictures of dual-relays...)
I can't imagine the R&D that would be involved in accurately counterfitting the Rigol DS1052E and getting it to perform similar to the true model, not to mention creating all of the injection molds for the various plastic components and buttons. Then they would have to source all of the analog parts....
Well, see ATTEN (now also Siglent). That's exactly what they do. The insides are like a photocopy of the Rigol's. Some people think that Rigol manufactures them for ATTEN, but they actually do the cloning themselves. And yes, that's theft of IP, and copyright infringement. And yes, that's China.
(But, no, that's not what anyone here was talking about. Just making up fake labels for real Rigol scopes.)
- Mark
I am positive that if you go onto the Rigol website you will see ATTEN scopes for sale too. Well at least the last time I went on you could...
I wonder how long it is before people start selling DS1102E/D labels for rebadging DS1052E/D units, for sure they won't be for sale for long but I bet someone tries. I'm in a quandry myself as I'll be using mine at work soon or rather our clients will be using it so I don't know how to explain away the fact that I have modded it ;D
Some more pics hereSo far, none of the DS1052E internals I've seen have the 2nd switching relay in the front-end, which the 1102E seem to have.
My DS1052E (...with pictures of dual-relays...)
Thanks, Dynomo! That eliminates the only hardware-specific difference I was aware of. Since the firmware is identical, it's looking like there may be no hardware differences.
- Mark
Some more pics here
http://www.mikeb.vivaciti.net/rigolpics
I wonder how long it is before people start selling DS1102E/D labels for rebadging DS1052E/D units, for sure they won't be for sale for long but I bet someone tries. I'm in a quandry myself as I'll be using mine at work soon or rather our clients will be using it so I don't know how to explain away the fact that I have modded it ;D
You're in a quandary? Why say anything at all? There's nothing to "explain", unless you're in the mood to brag.
- Mark
eer the client requested a 100 MHz scope be available, so it looks a bit funny if I set up a scope that say's on it's decal 50 MHz and then tell them it is 100 MHz
Np your welcome, I think the keyboard pcb is just flux all over the board where they soldered on the pots.Some more pics here
http://www.mikeb.vivaciti.net/rigolpics
Thanks a lot, Mike, for taking the time. There are some shots in there I'd never seen before. I see your board is labeled DEMO6 (and flolic's was DEMO5). Also, they kind of cooked the 2005 Keyboard PCB when they soldered on the pots.
- Mark
P.S. One of the files (1477) doesn't seem to be accessible...
eer the client requested a 100 MHz scope be available, so it looks a bit funny if I set up a scope that say's on it's decal 50 MHz and then tell them it is 100 MHz
Ah, yes. I see. I guess that begs the question of if you knew you were to supply a 100 MHz scope for a Client, why you purchased a 50 MHz unit instead. But you don't have to explain yourself to me. At least I understand your dilemma now.
- Mark
P.S. Black electrical tape? ;)
I am positive that if you go onto the Rigol website you will see ATTEN scopes for sale too. Well at least the last time I went on you could...
??? David, that surprises me. I've been monitoring the Rigol websites pretty carefully for almost 2 years now, and I've never seen an ATTEN product there. Perhaps you could supply a pointer?
Also, Rigol's Head of Service said that, "Atten lives like a kind of thief who never gets the respect." Doesn't sound like the kind of relationship where they'd host their (competitor's) products on their site. You can read his full commentary here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11911064&postcount=495), under the username RScope.
Also, Rigol filed a lawsuit against ATTEN for violation of copyrights, and won. You can find it with a Google search.
- Mark
Forgive me, must of been half asleep when I posted that comment. I was referring to the following site...
Thank you people who found this nice mod.
I just did the mod. But why is everyone using serial cable and some kind of terminal program?
I used the VB Rigol Visa Demo with an USB cable. Am i'm missing something ? Hack seems to be permanent after powercycle ???
btw. had to download visa441runtime , the one supplied with the CD didn't work in Windows 7.
The rigol as far as I know does not work under window Vista at least I had no success, I would assume that it is the same for Win7.You may want to try a different VISA runtime, as Michael mentions above. There is certainly a 64bit download for Vista/Win7 - http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/1408/lang/en (http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/1408/lang/en)
Try getting USB and Windows 7 64 bit to work!
so will that allow the rigol to work with the software they provide under vista/7 ?I don't have a Win7 machine here to test on, but I suspect the problem would be with the supplied drivers, rather than the Ultrascope GUI. It's certainly worth giving it a shot!
Just for kicks I tried Visa 4.6.2 and it also works fine.
As a side note, since upgrading to 100MHz has anyone experienced any weirdnesses with calibrating the probes that came with the unit? After going to 100MHz unless I turn BW Limit on when I calibrate the probes, I get a very jumpy square wave that won't lock on using auto acquire, or even manually trying for that matter. ???
My guess is since the BW has increased to beyond 100MHz, it is picking up some very high order harmonics or some interference from the rudimentary square wave generator built into the scope and causing the scope to trigger improperly. As a test I tried using some 60MHz probes I had laying around for another scope, and they don't exhibit this problem. I also never experienced this problem until I modded to 100MHz. Oh, well I just thought it was an interesting problem and also shows that the BW must have increased.
Does the DS1102 come with the same probes? If so, does it have this goofy behavior when trying to calibrate the probes?
Oh, don't worry, I'm rarely sure of anything :) I did later amend some of this to reflect some uncertainty -- https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg2824#msg2824The firmware images don't appear to be signed, so they could be modified easily
I wouldn't be so sure.
[QuoteThere's no room for a hash, so you could do whatever you want to the file.
There's no room for a hash in the header, but that desn't mean that one (or a CRC) isn't embedded in the firmware images, to detect corruption or tampering.
QuoteUnfortunately, this means that there's no sort of bootloader which could recover corrupted firmware, so your options would be to desolder the NOR flash holding the firmware and reprogram it using a chip programmer, or try to get the 13-pin JTAG-looking connector working.
Actually, there IS a bootloader in the BlackFins, in protected space. But I doubt it would have the ability to read files off a USB stick. So in that sense, you may be right that once corrupted software was loaded, recovery would be difficult.
OR, they may have a dual-image system, where they can load a 2nd set of firmware into the other half of Flash, but not toggle control over to it until it had been successfully validated. Otherwise, once they started a reflash cycle, they'd have to blow away the original firmware first. From which point there'd be no recovery on power fail or by the time it knew the image it loaded was bad.
That could explain how they utilize 8 MB of Spansion Flash, when the firmware only occupies 4 MB. And during operation, the remaining 4 MB can be scratchpad space (like 1 MB for Reference waveform memory, as Andreas and Drieg pointed out).
hey could ultrascope work over the com port ? after the money spent on the cable and time modding it I may as well use if if it's simpler, wait in the mean time for rigol to get serious about vista/7
...
Picked up my 1052E from MIB Tools for a bit over $400 USD shipped EMS to Canada. Arrived last night.
...
...
Picked up my 1052E from MIB Tools for a bit over $400 USD shipped EMS to Canada. Arrived last night.
...
Anyone else have any experiences with MIB Tools to share? Just had a look at their site - doesn't say what currency the prices are in... If it's Hong Kong dollars the prices are almost too good - any catches?
Thx
G
Dave has taken a break, he posted a note in the "Announcements" forum saying he's going walkabout for a while. I'm sure the deluge of e-mails and consistent output of quality video blogs has been taxing his time for a while now!
Yea, but that was on the 9th he has posted a new video blog on the 16th so i assumed he was back.
I went ahead and ordered from DealExtreme. They appear to be rolling out the DS1052E on schedule at the moment.
I ordered on March 23rd with EMS and got shipping confirmation on the 26th. It should be on a plane headed towards the US very shortly (today?) according to the tracking information.
I'm looking forward to replacing my ancient B+K 1474 30 MHz scope that requires percussive force to operate properly. ;) Thank you all.
Dave has taken a break, he posted a note in the "Announcements" forum saying he's going walkabout for a while. I'm sure the deluge of e-mails and consistent output of quality video blogs has been taxing his time for a while now!
Yea, but that was on the 9th he has posted a new video blog on the 16th so i assumed he was back.
I had already filmed and uploaded the last drive-time one before I went away. I just logged in via my phone for a few minutes while on holiday and made it live :)
Keen viewers would have already found ways to find it back on the 9th.
I should have filmed a couple more episodes before I went and progressively released them, then no one would have known I was gone!
Dave.
Are you sure the package is heading towards you? I ordered mine DS1052E from DealExtreme a month ago and it is still out of stock according to the status. It think your status will change to out of stock in a couple of days :(
Can anybody suggest a hint where to dig in the hack for other RIGOL model sries (DS1022C at my case)? I have tried the same commands, but, say, :INFO:MODEL? returns nothing, :IO:TEST someText doesn't echo. Connection is OK (say, *IDN? and :INFO:SERIAL? do work).
$ ./rq.py '*IDN?'
SEND *IDN?
RECV RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES,DS1022C,DS1022xxxxxxxxx,03.07.01
RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES,DS1022C,DS1022xxxxxxxxx,03.07.01
$ ./rq.py ':DISPLAY:SCREEN?'
SEND :DISPLAY:SCREEN?
RECV NORMAL
NORMAL
It sounds like he parsed through a firmware file for the acceptable commands, either through just searching for strings, or actually dis-assembling the binary. You could try that, but there's no guarantee that the DS1000C series used the same method to select model...ie. it could have been done in hardware instead.I have tried to find something MODEL-related - the only fragment with "model" (case-insensitive context) is:
D.
DS1102CD DS1062CD DS1042CD DS1022CD DS1102C DS1062C
DS1042C DS1022C DS1102MD DS1062MD DS1042MD DS1022MD
DS1102M DS1062M DS1042M DS1022M DS-5110 DS-5106 DS-5104 DS-5102
Parameter Trig_Level_K Trig_Level_M Gain_A_K1 Gain_A_K2 Gain_B_K1
Gain_B_K2 Offset_1_A Offset_1_K Offset_1_M Offset_2_A Offset_2_K Offset_2_M
ADC_Offset ADC_A_Offset_1 ADC_B_Offset_1 ADC_A_Offset_2 ADC_B_Offset_2 %6.1f
CH1 %6d EXT EXT5 CH2 Trig_Sens_A =%6.1f Trig_Sens_K EquMin =%d
EquTrigDelay RealTrigDelay RealTrigOffset Saving... %s SERVICE Model SerialID
Save Clear Power Up 1/2 2/2 System Parameter Color About InterploatorScale
Press 'Stop' key to Exit Press 'AUTO' key to load Default Value Press 'STOP' key to Exit
Day ago I get new DS1052E from China.
Command modification did NOT work as before!
I have try with many variations how to do.
With these units what I have before all goes ok.
I have not yet find solution with these new. If I try as before, display go sometimes "black" and only button what make anything is power ON/OFF. After this scope continues as DS1052E (serial number it (sometimes) keep as I type it, but it return to 1052). Some times there is only white random scratch over model number row from left to right over display.) One time it was totally difficult to return so that system display was ok.
FW with these new are exactly same 020202
Only difference what I can see is different start of serial number after letters. (first 4 digits... maybe these are some "prefix" what indicate some product revisions?
So I think we need continue more public discussions to push factory make good stop for modifications. We can teach them to do hack proof scopes. Maybe they make nearly "waterproof" next revision. (or this what I have now is just this)
" Wow, are you saying that Rigol has already locked down this hack?"
Not exactly.
Maybe this situation is not (yet) related to hack, maybe it is related only to product revision.
(also I do not believe that this hack is first known outside China. ;)
..... but maybe they have not so open mouth...)
Just modded mine, and yep, it works!
Guess what the next blog is going to be about...
(also I do not believe that this hack is first known outside China. ;)
..... but maybe they have not so open mouth...)
I would think all known 1102 serials have been blocked in the new versions, it is obvious that rigol saw this thread and other mentions on the net pretty quickly, and I'm sure blocking this hack was simple: just remove the model changing commands from the command set, clearly this was an easy way of choosing later what the scope would be, now they probably have to Flash two different versions of the firmware to the scopes to make the choice ie: it is preobably now hard coded. Perhaps copying the firmware of a 1102 to a 1052 would get around that but then they could put something in like the bios to prevent it being accepted. suerely at some point a new hack will be found but it wil be a case of how far one is willing to go to carry out the mod
Can anybody suggest a hint where to dig in the hack for other RIGOL model sries (DS1022C at my case)? I have tried the same commands, but, say, :INFO:MODEL? returns nothing, :IO:TEST someText doesn't echo. Connection is OK (say, *IDN? and :INFO:SERIAL? do work).
This was all made possible by the "hidden commands" that "mxmxmx" found in the DS1000E firmware (see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958&page=49#post13549739)
It sounds like he parsed through a firmware file for the acceptable commands, either through just searching for strings, or actually dis-assembling the binary. You could try that, but there's no guarantee that the DS1000C series used the same method to select model...ie. it could have been done in hardware instead.
I would think all known 1102 serials have been blocked in the new versions
I'm sure blocking this hack was simple: just remove the model changing commands from the command set
they probably have to Flash two different versions of the firmware to the scopes to make the choice ie: it is preobably now hard coded.
Perhaps copying the firmware of a 1102 to a 1052 would get around that
suerely at some point a new hack will be found but it wil be a case of how far one is willing to go to carry out the mod
I would think all known 1102 serials have been blocked in the new versions
You might think that, but you'd be wrong.QuoteI'm sure blocking this hack was simple: just remove the model changing commands from the command set
And wrong again. No need to remove any commands.Quotethey probably have to Flash two different versions of the firmware to the scopes to make the choice ie: it is preobably now hard coded.
Nope.QuotePerhaps copying the firmware of a 1102 to a 1052 would get around that
Nope. (That info isn't stored in the firmware.)Quotesuerely at some point a new hack will be found but it wil be a case of how far one is willing to go to carry out the mod
Maybe. But certainly not "surely".
- Mark
I don't know if they'd... they might change... or just lock out... I wonder if perhaps...
If they did change... it could be an interesting headache. That would make upgrading existing scopes (hacked or not) tricky/impossible. And I wonder if ...
Ahh well, all speculation. Though it does make me very curious...
I'm not software expert...
but I can see how easy the mod was (even I managed it)
i'm sure rigol can come up with something more substantial if they put their minds to it
So I think we need continue more public discussions to push factory make good stop for modifications. We can teach them to do hack proof scopes. Maybe they make nearly "waterproof" next revision. (or this what I have now is just this)
I'm not trying to pick on you, darkith. Just pointing out that public speculation on issues like this are unlikely to be helpful to us in the long run.
- Mark
Day ago I get new DS1052E from China.
Command modification did NOT work as before!
but I can see how easy the mod was (even I managed it)
Day ago I get new DS1052E from China.
Command modification did NOT work as before!
Man, that makes me nervous... Did you get yours from DealExtreme? I have one sitting in US customs right now that I ordered through them last Monday. Hopefully my unit will be in the clear! Anyone else have pending deliveries or problems upgrading?
I ordered mine today from Saelig. It already shows as shipped so it must have come from local inventory. Hopefully they don't get shipments from China very frequently.
Day ago I get new DS1052E from China.
Command modification did NOT work as before!
I have try with many variations how to do.
With these units what I have before all goes ok.
I have not yet find solution with these new. If I try as before, display go sometimes "black" and only button what make anything is power ON/OFF. After this scope continues as DS1052E (serial number it (sometimes) keep as I type it, but it return to 1052). Some times there is only white random scratch over model number row from left to right over display.) One time it was totally difficult to return so that system display was ok.
Did you get yours from DealExtreme?
...the hardware hack is pretty simple too, so I'd like to re-iterate that in the case that they do fix the software mod then the hardware hack will still be valid...
And apparently you can downgrade firmware as well, so it's should still easy to apply the mod to new scopes.
A little birdie has told me that Rigol have already fixed the firmware to stop the hack, from at least the latest version 2.04, and possibly before that. It does not let you change the model number, but you can still change the serial number.
But apparently if you hack it with the old version and do the update to the new firmware, the mod sticks!
And apparently you can downgrade firmware as well, so it's should still easy to apply the mod to new scopes.
I now have the latest version 2.04 file so will have to give this a go.
Dave.
But apparently if you hack it with the old version and do the update to the new firmware, the mod sticks!
And apparently you can downgrade firmware as well, so it's should still easy to apply the mod to new scopes.
I now have the latest version 2.04 file so will have to give this a go.
Dave.
why not ? the firmware was written for that scope anyhow.I have read bad stories wrt upgrading another (DS1000C) series. So, I suggest there are some "subseries" inside series ;D
why not ? the firmware was written for that scope anyhow.I have read bad stories wrt upgrading another (DS1000C) series. So, I suggest there are some "subseries" inside series ;D
Yes. But I have got the scope with lastest fw :(why not ? the firmware was written for that scope anyhow.I have read bad stories wrt upgrading another (DS1000C) series. So, I suggest there are some "subseries" inside series ;D
but if you downgrade a firmware to one you already had on your scope no worries, problems may be for those that want to downgrade, hack and reupgrade
The thing is, this DSO is the only scope in hand, and, OTOH, I'm not experienced in digital/smd area (my experience lies in analog audio/through hole components, sorry). At such circumstances own attempts seem to be too risky, and I'll wait for more experienced fellows.
Which reminded me of a fable my grandmother once read to me, when I was just a lad...
"Once upon a time
....
weeping and wailing, and knashing of teeth. The best of days were behind them.
THE END."
"...it was later discovered that the wicked resellers had discovered this magical incantation previously, and after abusing it with their magical powers of relabeling, had been hawking the cheaper models as the high end models to the peasants for some time..."
It sounds like he parsed through a firmware file for the acceptable commands, either through just searching for strings, or actually dis-assembling the binary. You could try that, but there's no guarantee that the DS1000C series used the same method to select model...ie. it could have been done in hardware instead.I have tried to find something MODEL-related - the only fragment with "model" (case-insensitive context) is:
D.Code: [Select]DS1102CD DS1062CD DS1042CD DS1022CD DS1102C DS1062C
DS1042C DS1022C DS1102MD DS1062MD DS1042MD DS1022MD
DS1102M DS1062M DS1042M DS1022M DS-5110 DS-5106 DS-5104 DS-5102
Parameter Trig_Level_K Trig_Level_M Gain_A_K1 Gain_A_K2 Gain_B_K1
Gain_B_K2 Offset_1_A Offset_1_K Offset_1_M Offset_2_A Offset_2_K Offset_2_M
ADC_Offset ADC_A_Offset_1 ADC_B_Offset_1 ADC_A_Offset_2 ADC_B_Offset_2 %6.1f
CH1 %6d EXT EXT5 CH2 Trig_Sens_A =%6.1f Trig_Sens_K EquMin =%d
EquTrigDelay RealTrigDelay RealTrigOffset Saving... %s SERVICE Model SerialID
Save Clear Power Up 1/2 2/2 System Parameter Color About InterploatorScale
Press 'Stop' key to Exit Press 'AUTO' key to load Default Value Press 'STOP' key to Exit
:STORAGE
:STOR
:TYPE?
WAVEFORMS
FACTORY
SETUPS
NONE
:TYPE
FACT
:FACTORY
:FACT
:LOAD
:INFO
:SERIAL
:SER
:SERIAL?
:SER?
:MODEL
:MOD
:EQUTRIGDELAY
:EQUTRIGDELAY?
%1.2e
:REALTRIGDELAY
:SYSSERVICE
:HARDVERSION
:SAVEPARA
:KEYS
Simon:
Of course if the only difference is the serial/model the updated firmware will work fine, otherwise they'd be bricking all of their legitimate DS1102E machines!
Factory reset!
Unrelated, does anyone know where I can get a copy of the new firmware image?
One other thing people should be on the lookout for is that it's possible Rigol could release an updated firmware, but keep the version number the same. I.e., there could be an "old" 02.02.02 and a new 02.02.02.
I'm not saying this has or will happen... just that it could.
$ unzip -l DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip
Archive: DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip
Length Date Time Name
-------- ---- ---- ----
4194325 07-21-09 20:35 DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02/DS1000DUpdate.RGL
4194325 07-21-09 20:35 DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02/DS1000EUpdate.RGL
72569 11-03-09 15:00 DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02/DS1k Upgrade Guidance.pdf
0 11-09-09 18:21 DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02/
-------- -------
8461219 4 files
$ md5sum *RGL
16d645a8ac4b9cf0d5b11cc3e3a62536 DS1000DUpdate.RGL
272086b2037231c62446617436544a77 DS1000EUpdate.RGL
$ md5sum DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip
ab9595533808466830a5ac72da2a493f DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip
For reference information, here are some identifiable details from the previously posted 02.02.02. Disclaimer, I have not tried this firmware since my scope (purchased in March) reports that it is running this. On the screen it shows up as 02.02 SP2, *IDN? reports the version as 00.02.02.02.00.
$ md5sum *RGL
16d645a8ac4b9cf0d5b11cc3e3a62536 DS1000DUpdate.RGL
272086b2037231c62446617436544a77 DS1000EUpdate.RGL
$ md5sum DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip
ab9595533808466830a5ac72da2a493f DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip
272086b2037231c62446617436544a77 DS1000EUpdate.RGL
Hey all, just thought I'd chime in with an update. Received my scope (ordered from DX on 3/22) and was concerned to find my firmware was version 00.02.02 SP2 whereas Dave's unit as upgraded in the video was v.00.02.01 SP1. The good news is: After a few false starts, it took. I'm now another proud owner of an 1102!
This "new" FW you get from Rigol (P.R.C.) or "rigolna"?
Factory reset!
Sure, but reset of *what*? What goes in that file? How do I make one? :)
Unrelated, does anyone know where I can get a copy of the new firmware image?
Anyone know of the cheapest supplier of Rigol scopes for UK customers? I am sure they used to be on ebay for £200 from China before they all got removed?
Anyone know of the cheapest supplier of Rigol scopes for UK customers? I am sure they used to be on ebay for £200 from China before they all got removed?
See:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=6.msg3392#msg3392 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=6.msg3392#msg3392)
Joy at MCS is an official UK rep and has it for £281, which sounds like a top price for buying from an official dealer.
Dave.
...just wish we could find out where the Model and Serial are stored in the scope as i believe i may have corrupted this area when changing the model number, the scope has a few problems. Still im not sure its hardware or software, but id like to try rewriting the correct info back into the scope to see if that can solve it. As you can see from a previous post( with link to RC groups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1222045) someone else has also managed to corrupt this data and has very similar problems to my scope.
Using serial cable... is very risky... In some cases it corrupts part of internal flash memory. Especially if you accidentally hit the ENTER instead of sending correct <LF> code, you can bet that you have just corrupted some data. Sometimes I've experienced these corrupted data even if I sent correct <LF>.
Internal flash holds some important factory calibration data (different from Self-Calibration) which are unique to every unit.
@Dave: I'm sorry to say, but I don't think it was a good idea to make a video encouraging people to do this...
I think it's not very feasible that there is a technical difference between using USB or serial.
I think it's not very feasible that there is a technical difference between using USB or serial.
I may not know much about hardware, but that's a bad assumption when it comes to software. I can see many ways that the code paths in the firmware between handling serial input and USB input can be different. Even forgetting that, the byte stream the computer sends to the scope can be very different depending on whether it is line based or character based.
So You should probably warn people they can't make any mistakes while typing these commands.
I can't think of a safe way to abort the command entry once you've started typing. The safest thing I can think of is to enter the newline to end the command early so it will be a short string and then start over, *without* rebooting the scope until the bad input has been corrected.
well, i just confirmed that long strings are not the problem. As my scope is buggered, i just set my serial and model no to 123456789123456789123456789123456789123456789123456789
And maybe there still isn't any risk, perhaps it's something else entirely as Dimlow suspects?
well, i just confirmed that long strings are not the problem. As my scope is buggered, i just set my serial _and_ model no to 123456789123456789123456789123456789123456789123456789
i think maybe it has something to do with my scope crashing whilst setting the model or serial no, pretty sure its nothing to do with string lengths
I was assuming that Rigol would simply implement a standard USB to serial converter in there somewhere, and use the serial interface (from RS232 or USB) as the lowest common denominator interface. From a design point of view that would reduce the need to code two entirely separate serial interfaces.
At no time has it been my intent to ridicule anyone (except Simon ;), and he's been a good sport about it).
- Mark
OK, here's my experience.Please give details of how you did it ?
The safest "upgrade" method is to backup flash memory and modify just the fields that are needed to modify. You can do it through external programmer or JTAG, which I beleive is the way how they do it in production.
@dimlowPlease how do you know what data is stored where ? more detail please. And i have another two scopes, not really bothered now if i scrap the scope or not. So were do i start if i want to dump the data ?
You are on the good way to ruin your scope totally :o Be caferul, there is limited space for model and serial info inside flash and I don't know, if the string is truncated before writting into flash. Right after these fields there are other vitally important data (HW revision, and others)...
Anyway, let me know, when you need repair ;)
Be caferul, there is limited space for model and serial info inside flash and I don't know, if the string is truncated before writting into flash. Right after these fields there are other vitally important data (HW revision, and others)...
Anyway, let me know, when you need repair ;)
OK, here's my experience.Please give details of how you did it ?
The safest "upgrade" method is to backup flash memory and modify just the fields that are needed to modify. You can do it through external programmer or JTAG, which I beleive is the way how they do it in production.
CuteCom on gnu/linux does not send anything until the enter key is pressed and the enter key can be
configured to send a linefeed only.
echo "*IDN?" > /dev/usbtmc0 ; cat < /dev/usbtmc0
echo ":INFO:SERIAL?" > /dev/usbtmc0 ; cat < /dev/usbtmc0
Hyperterminal sends characters as they are typed and could fill up a buffer and possibly corrupt the stack, crashing and possibly corrupting data. CuteCom on gnu/linux does not send anything until the enter key is pressed and the enter key can be configured to send a linefeed only. This means that if someone is not being as diligent as required when using Hyperterminal, backspaces and such cause no harm when using CuteCom.
There is no need for the firmware in the DSO1502E to recognize 'backspace' and implement its behavior:
the commands are most likely not for interactive use.
"but my FT2232D-based JTAG dongle is similar enough to http://docs.blackfin.uclinux.org/doku.php?id=hw:jtag:gnice that we might be able to just use their tools. Hmmm..."
thanx for d info, i think that will help alot. using just ftdi chip as JTAG. no extra mcu is needed. can u already poke the eeprom data out my bushing? since u already have the usb device?
anyone knows where to buy this usb jtag?
Version number in header changed from "02.02.02.00" to "00.02.04.00" ... very odd
A new block of text with hints of DS1204B support?
Last two bytes in buffer = %x %x
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DS1204B
Rigol
RIGOL Technologies, Inc.
Screen Oscillograph
Copyright (c) 2009 Rigol.
Exif
Unknown
Adobe
JFIF
Added or changed commands:
:MEMD? -> :MEMP?
:MDEP?
:MDEP
:SRATE?
:SRAT?
:RAMO -> :RAM?
:GAMOUNT?
:GAM?
Removed commands -- warning, there's not a lot you can infer from this. As you can see, there's a lot of duplication, so these commands may still exist elsewhere.
*RIGOL *TEK
:UNLOCK :UNL
:FACTORY :FAC FACTORY
:ACQUIRE :ACQ ACQUIRE
:STATE STOP
:MODE? :MOD? PEAKdetect AVErage SAMple :MODE :MOD SAMPLE AVERAGE PEAKDETECT PEAK
:NUMAVG? :NUMAV? :NUMAVG :NUMAV
:CH1
:BANdWIDTH? :BAN? :BANDWIDTH :BAN
:INVERT? :INV? :INVERT :INV
:COUPLING? :COUP? :COUPLING :COUP
:PROBE? :PRO? :PROBE :PRO
:POSITION? :POS? :POSITION :POS
:SCALE? :SCA? :SCALE :SCA :SELECT :SEL SELECT
:CH1? :CH2 :CH2?
:MATH :MATH?
:CH2
:BANdWIDTH? :BAN? :BANDWIDTH :BAN
:INVERT? :INV? :INVERT :INV
:COUPLING? :COUP? :COUPLING :COUP
:PROBE? :PRO? :PROBE :PRO
:POSITION? :POS? :POSITION :POS
:SCALE? :SCA? :SCALE :SCA
:DISPLAY :DIS DISPLAY
:STYLE? :STY? DOTs VECtors :STYLE :STY DOTS VECTORS
:PERSISTENCE? :PERS? :PERSISTENCE :PERS
:INVERT? :INV? :INVERT :INV
:FORMAT? :FORM? :FORMAT :FORM
:MATH MATH
:DEFINE HANNING RECTANGULAR RECT CH1+CH2 CH2+CH1 CH1-CH2 CH2-CH1 CH1*CH2 CH2*CH1
:VERTICAL :VER :POSITION :POS :POSITION? :POS?
:SCALE :SCAL :SCALE? :SCAL?
:FFT
:HORIZONTAL :HOR
:VALUE? :VAL?
PK2PK MAXIMUM MAXI MINIMUM MINI MEAN CRMS FREQUENCY FREQ PERIOD PERI RISE FALL PWIDTH NWIDTH
:MEASUREMENT :MEASU MEASUREMENT MEASU
:IMMED :IMM
:SOURCE1 :SOU
:TYPE :TYP
:SOURCE
MATH
:DATA :DAT DATA
:CURVE? :CURV?
:WAVFRM? :WAVF?
CURVE? CURV?
WAVFRM? WAVF?
:WAVEFORMANALYSIS WAVEFORMANALYSIS
:SAVE :SAV SAVE
:SETUP :SETU
:WAVEFORM :WAVE
:IMAGE :IMA
:FILEFORMAT :FILEF
:RECALL RECALL
FACTORY *SAV *RCL
:AUTOSET :AUTOS AUTOSET AUTOS
EXECUTE EXEC
:LANGUAGE? :LANG?
LANGUAGE? LANG?
KOREan JAPAnese ENGLish FRENch GERMan ITALian Russian SPANish PORTUguese
:LANGUAGE :LANG LANGUAGE LANG
SIMP TRAD KOREAN KORE JAPANESE JAPA ENGLISH ENGL FRENCH FREN GERMAM GERM ITALIAN ITAL RUSSIAN RUSS SPANISH SPAN PORTUGUESE PORTU
:RS232 RS232 :BAUD? :BAU? :BAUD :BAU
:CALIBRATE :CAL CALIBRATE
:INTERNAL
SIMPlifiedchines TRADitionalchinese SIMPLIFIEDCHINESE TRADITIONALCHINESE
:HORIZONTAL :HOR HORIZONTAL
:VIEW? MAIn WINDOW :VIEW MAIN
:SCALE? :SECDIV? :SCA? :SEC? :SCALE :SECDIV :SCA :SEC
:POSITION? :POS? :POSITION :POS
:MAIN:MAI
:DELAY :DEL
:LEVEL? :LEV? :LEVEL :LEV
:SOURCE? :SOU? ACLINE :SOURCE :SOU
:MODE? :MOD? AUTO NORMal SINGLE :MODE:MOD NORMAL NORM
:COUPLING? :COUP? HFRej LFRej :COUPLING :COUP HFREJ LFREJ
:SLOPE? :SLO? FALL ALTERNATION RISe :SLOPE :SLO RISE
:LEVEL? :LEV? :LEVEL :LEV :POLARITY? :POL? POSITIVe NEGAtive
:WHEN? INside OUTside EQual
:POLARITY :POL POSITIVE POSITIV NEGATIVE NEGA
:WHEN INSIDE OUTSIDE EQUAL
:SOURCE? :SOU? ACLINE :SOURCE :SOU
:MODE? :MOD? AUTO NORMAL SINGLE :MODE :MOD NORM
:WIDTH? :WID? :WIDTH :WID
:TYPE? :TYP? EDGE PULse SLOPE VIDeo ALTERNATION PATTERN DURATION :TYPE :TYP PULSE VIDEO
:HOLDOFF? :HOLDO? :HOLDOFF :HOLDO
:VALUE? :VAL? :VALUE :VAL
:TRIGGER :TRIG TRIGGER TRIG
:STATE? SAVE WAIT SCAN AUTO ERROR FORCE FORC
:MAIN :MAI
SETLEVEL SETL
:MODE? :MODE :MOD? :MOD
:LEVEL? :LEVEL :LEV? :LEV
:EDGE :PULSE :PUL :WIDTH :WID :VIDEO :VID
:SOURCE? :SOU? :SOURCE :SOU
:POLARITY? :POL? NORMal INVert :POLARITY :POL NORMAL NORM INVERT
:STANDARD? :STAND? NTSc
:STANDARD :STAND NTSC
:SYNC? LINE EVEN :SYNC :LINE? :LINE
Notably, the :INFO:MODEL and :INFO:SERIAL commands are still there, so if they don't work, they're enabled/disabled by some other means.
A "typo" fix?
"<<Press 'RUN/STOP' Key Three Times to Exit The Test>>" -> "<<Press 'RUN/STOP' Key three Times to Exit The Test>>"
DSP code upgraded from v02.15 to v02.20
you don't need any programming experience for the mod, if you read back to near the beginning of this thread you will find me asking a lot of dumb questions and a lot of information on the mod including full instructions. all you need is a pc (win XP as the M$ dodo's took hyperterminal off vista - or use a freeware hyperterminal program) and a straight serial cable - ie: not a crossed or null modem one. of course as it has emerged later there are other considerations so beware and don't hold me responsable but my scope works just fine
@bushing and especially shafri
JTAG: Please do not do any experiments with JTAG interface unless you exactly know what you are doing. You need to know CPU's surroundings very well before you can make use of it. As the attached flash exceeds cpu's address space, some signals are generated inside Lattice CPLD. You won't be able to read the flash unless you know how. Easier to use external programmer at this point.
@bushing
JTAG/SPI: The SPI PCB-connector is quite new to Rigol scopes (only some recent scopes have it) and there is need to write more unit-specific data into flash than just model and sn info (what commands allows you). That's the reason why they must use JTAG in final phase of production...
Could you upload 02.02.04 firmware somwhere?
what external programmer are you talking about? isnt that JTAG programmer is a external prorammer? thanx 4 the precaution.
...but I was looking at rise and fall times, the true value seemed to be 10 nS but if I had too many waveforms on the screen and so the rises and falls were not so noticeable the scope made an error and said they were 20 nS, I had to "zoom in" to the point where a rise was well over a div to make sure it was accurate.
Please give clear information if someone have seen 02.02.04 in 1000E series.
but the system info screen now shows model as 123456789123456789123456789123456789123456789123456789
and the serial no surprisingly is now showing DS10000001
if i do another *idn? after a reboot i still get the same as above, so I'm now thinking the serial that is displayed on screen, is not stored as a string but is decoded from the string you send it. but still that string is stored and retrieved from memory when you do *idn? or :info:serial?
In that case, you might be unique..
Day ago I get new DS1052E from China.
Command modification did NOT work as before!
I have try with many variations how to do.
With these units what I have before all goes ok.
I have not yet find solution with these new. If I try as before, display go sometimes "black" and only button what make anything is power ON/OFF. After this scope continues as DS1052E (serial number it (sometimes) keep as I type it, but it return to 1052). Some times there is only white random scratch over model number row from left to right over display.) One time it was totally difficult to return so that system display was ok.
FW with these new are exactly same 020202
Only difference what I can see is different start of serial number after letters. (first 4 digits... maybe these are some "prefix" what indicate some product revisions?
So I think we need continue more public discussions to push factory make good stop for modifications. We can teach them to do hack proof scopes. Maybe they make nearly "waterproof" next revision. (or this what I have now is just this).
Please give clear information if someone have seen 02.02.04 in 1000E series.
Someone was given this firmware by Rigol as being the "latest". No reports of seeing it in actual shipped units yet.
Dave.
Please give clear information if someone have seen 02.02.04 in 1000E series.
Someone was given this firmware by Rigol as being the "latest". No reports of seeing it in actual shipped units yet.
Dave.
I have not see any kind of information for this. Please give some data for this, if it not just garbage information. Some tell that some friend tell and some see something and what ever..... as long as there is not more information I think this is lie or disinformation.
Please give me true data, what Rigol organization and to who give FW 00.02.02.04 as new FW to Rigol DS1052E. (OR series DS1000E)
If there is not this true information then please tell that there are not any knowledge about new firmware after 00.02.02.02 (02.02.SP2)
I have not see any kind of information for this. Please give some data for this, if it not just garbage information. Some tell that some friend tell and some see something and what ever..... as long as there is not more information I think this is lie or disinformation.
Please give me true data, what Rigol organization and to who give FW 00.02.02.04 as new FW to Rigol DS1052E. (OR series DS1000E)
If there is not this true information then please tell that there are not any knowledge about new firmware after 00.02.02.02 (02.02.SP2)
great and it retains the new model number doesn't it ?
bushing: "No, he means something like http://www.xeltek.com/product.php?productid=17207."
oou. thats seem like a "parallel programmer" Dave talked about in his video. that would be completely dismantling the flash out of the board right? sorry, but i have to find another way around, i dont wanna risk with messing the flash hardware. this will be my last choice, if i cant find another way. and oou, the price is $995, wow, i can buy an authentic DS1102D with that (just add a little $$$). so it seem my last choice will be to buy a new rigol DSO or MSO. :) . thanx for the info though
As long as there is not any confirmation from Rigol factory or other trusted source I can only think this is some kind of joke.
Of course my opinion change just after there is some trusted (official) information about 02.04 FW upgrade to DS1000E series. ;)
As long as there is not any confirmation from Rigol factory or other trusted source I can only think this is some kind of joke.
Of course my opinion change just after there is some trusted (official) information about 02.04 FW upgrade to DS1000E series. ;)
AFAIK Rigol have never freely given out their firmware updates unless you ask specifically, so I suspect you won't find it on their website any time soon, or a formal announcement.
Why don't you go and ask them?
Dave.
As long as there is not any confirmation from Rigol factory or other trusted source I can only think this is some kind of joke.
Of course my opinion change just after there is some trusted (official) information about 02.04 FW upgrade to DS1000E series. ;)
AFAIK Rigol have never freely given out their firmware updates unless you ask specifically, so I suspect you won't find it on their website any time soon, or a formal announcement.
Why don't you go and ask them?
Dave.
I suggest you learn some english first, you have clearly not understood dave and are now basically accusing him of producing his own firmware and claiming that it is rigols !
you need to contact Rigol
tell them you model number and serial number and ask for the latest firmware. they will email it to you
I ask you becouse you are only who have publish this "new firmware". :)
And becouse update process show different as in Rigol upgrade note. (rigol note tell that it regognize if you are upgrading to up or down. But your video can not see text in scope display about upgrade to more new... )
I think if you publish something new info I can ask you some data about this publication.
Rigol is not right place to ask what is behind your publication.
I try ask agen from you. If you do not understand question please ask what I mean.
Do you have see ANY document or proofment that Rigol have make new FW to DS1000E series after 00.02.02.SP2? If you have, what?
I have not seen any info, not any Rigol scope with factory installed this new FW, not any information from Rigol, also you have not tell anything about this new FW source. Its truth value is absolutely just garbage as long as there is not any kind of proofment about this FW.
Everybody can change this version number. It takes just some seconds. So how you know (or is it believe) it is real FW Upgrade? I ask you becouse you are only who have published this and you are anly person who know some more truth about this. Only what I have seen is some short time ago official sides (Rigol China) and there was downloadable FW 00.02.02.SP2 and this was free open public place. This time now there is not any FW upgrade for DS1000E.
Ask Rigol... ask Rigol what EEVblog do? Or what?
I think it is better to ask EEVblog (Dave) what EEVblog (Dave) do.
You will be authenticated by what you publish. This is normal practice for this kind of things.
My Russian is none too good, so Google translate had... um,... amusing results.
Yesterday, Sasha (aka Alex_lv) and I worked on hacking a Rigol DS1052E into a DS1102E. We used test signal generators (Tektronix SG503, Tektronix PG506) and 50-ohm load (by Tektronix), all controlled by a Tektronix 2567A. In general, everything is working adequately with the Rigol (except of course the implementation of sinx / x). It's a nice little machine with 00.02.02 SP2 installed.(Actually, it *does* literally say "grounded crocodile!"!)
The band at -3dB 146MHz has a rise time of 2.4 ... 2.48ns (at rise-time generator, <1ns), a fall-time of 5ns (the generator's fall-time is not normalized, the 2467 shows 5ns), if one takes the inverted signal from PG506 (Fast Rise Output Falling) the fall-time is 2.4 ... 2.48ns. The internal frequency counter can make mistakes in the last digit (depending on the shape of the signal) was also observed with a bug, sometimes it can show exactly twice the frequency, compared to the standard Fluke PM6685.
[...]
As well as sweat for all the leads that came to hand [?!], all the probes are compensated, measured with a needle to minimize inductance and get the correct results but also from the grounded alligatr clip in order to see how it affects the inductance for each of the probe.
Same think happened, I think, with the ZeroPlus Logic Cube logic analyzer. They made the FPGA ground all inputs not allowed for the model. Too bad I missed that one :-)
As well as sweat for all the leads that came to hand [?!]I tested all probes floating around me :)
download and install this http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/1605/lang/en (http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/1605/lang/en)
you can also mod the scope through usb with that
361 MB :oIt comes with a whole load of crap that you don't actually need to install. A lot of development support and examples.
361 MB :oIt comes with a whole load of crap that you don't actually need to install. A lot of development support and examples.
download and install this http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/1605/lang/en (http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/1605/lang/en)
you can also mod the scope through usb with that
Hey I noticed something. On 2.02SP2 or whatever if you held a button down for a few seconds it would pop up a help screen on that button's feature. In 2.04 that seems to be gone? Or is there some other reason that quit working I wonder? It still looks like it is trying to load something the first time but it doesn't work.
May I suggest as many people as possible download the firmware at rcgroups.
"Contains firmware updates from July'09 for the 1000D and 1000E Rigol scopes. Along with an instructional PDF from 2008. To avoid problems, please check with Rigol to ensure your scope S/N is compatible, before updating."
Please repost outside the US. ;)
(Naturally A number of people will have this downloaded for later use perhaps in a country like Canada.)
Just spot a difference in the analog front-end between DS1052E and DS1102E
Just spot a difference in the analog front-end between DS1052E and DS1102E
http://img198.imageshack.us/i/rigol1052vs1102.jpg/
According to the picture provided by this guy, the primary difference is the DS1102E uses the B3GA4.5Z relay to replace the smaller relay COSMO Y214S used by DS1052E.
I don't know if there is any performance difference in these analog front-end circuits.
Most of oscilloscopes what I know have "service calibration" or what ever name they use.Agreed, it's likely that the scope needs external signals for this, the selfcal is just to compensate offsets generated by temperature differences.
I think there is some way how factory (or service) run special calibration process after new scope HW is ready. After HW production every scope need maybe some individual parameters. My opinion is that normal "selfcal" do not all these.
How to enter this special mode? (if there is any)I would expect them to be initiated from USB/serial, since they'd want to automate it as much as possible. If you're lucky, it might be the same procedure as used for annual calibration at a cal lab, this should be documented in the service/calibration manual (is there such a thing? gotta love Chinese companies and documentation). It might be documented for the Agilent version of the scope (although the Agilent firmware is not the same, so it could be different), HP/Agilent is usually quite good at documentation. If the initial calibration is a different process, it's unlikely to be documented, and I expect it would be hard to reverse-engineer this, since it'll probably need specific signals and specified steps.
I have look many times FW but can not find any good idea how.
Maybe scope have some special startup (example startup with some keys pressed (many different machines have some "hidden" way to do some service specials) or something else or some command via USB or serial port)
How we can find these?
It might be documented for the Agilent version of the scope (although the Agilent firmware is not the same, so it could be different), HP/Agilent is usually quite good at documentation.
My ds1052e version is 00.01.03,can it to change 100MHZ?
Anyone still on the fence about purchasing the ds1052E, here's a good price from a reputable US vendor with 3 year warranty. $399 shipped.
http://tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html (http://tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html)
When I ordered from Tequipment last month, the scope was drop shipped from Rigol NA in Ohio. Got it in about 2 days.
Anyone still on the fence about purchasing the ds1052E, here's a good price from a reputable US vendor with 3 year warranty. $399 shipped.
http://tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html (http://tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html)
FYI – I received my DS1052E 5/14/10, downgraded the FW, used hyperterminal to enter new model and serial number, rebooted. When I restarted the scope the model and serial number are missing. The scope still operates fine as far as I can tell (at 50 mhz), so I am going to leave as is after reading this blog I’m afraid I might f/u the scope if I attempt the upgrade again.
Norm
PS FWIW, its indepedent not independant. Spelling please.
PS FWIW, its indepedent not independant. Spelling please.
Did you mean independent? :)
PS FWIW, its indepedent not independant. Spelling please.
Did you mean independent? :)
PS FWIW, its indepedent not independant. Spelling please.
Did you mean independent? :)
Yet another reason its good practice not to be a spelling Nazi.
@ saturation ok we will fix our spelling! I emailed our web department.
I might spell something wrong but I know my math will always be correct! ( its the EE in me )
One a side note we dont ship anything from China. We are a US dealer with about 40 employees.
Thanks for the business.
Evan
www.Tequipment.NET
I've set up a poll to find out how many have done the mod and succeeded, not done the mod, done the mod nothing happened, finally done the mod and lost the scope's functionality.i'm not in the list. i've done the mod partially succesful... and partially lost the functionality. partially means... some bad... and some still good :)
Whole version is not (afaik) displayed on scope system info. 00 and 01 displays in system info as 00.02.04
You can ask it with *IDN command and there may be 00.02.04.01 or something else.
I've update my scope with this firmware, and the help menus
are indeed back! Nothing bad seems to have happened :-)
Thanks!
Scott
My scope is now at firmware 00.02.04.00.03 .
You can now download this firmware version at the USB upgrade for dummies thread. This file was downloaded directly from my USB stick that was used for my scope.
My scope is now at firmware 00.02.04.00.03 .
You can now download this firmware version at the USB upgrade for dummies thread. This file was downloaded directly from my USB stick that was used for my scope.
Works as advertised :) Now my firmware is 00.02.04.00.03 (verified using usb-cable and "Visa VC demo"). Help system also works. And it still reports DS1102E.
Hello,
I seem to have bricked my scope while performing the firmware downgrade… When I restart the scope it does not boot up but one can see that the lcd is turned on but there is no image…
Any tips, can I somehow trigger a reflash from this state?
I have access to the necessary equipment to desolder and reflash most types of memories in a programmer .. but i rather not if there is any other way…
*.rgl is 4MB (thats in my keeping 2.02 and 2.04) but mostly blank inside, i havent thought of the ROM thing, might some useful data from inside. JTAG i found is similar to yours. i remember those ground"s" pin"s". but i dont have the JTAG programmer, so whats the point? for me! i cannot trace the Altera connection to the spansion since its BGA underground, rigol PCB is at least 3 layers, so ???.
my only hope lies in the dissambly of the rigol FW, finding where the important interrupts point will be and crack it to take control from there. but i never got strong feeling for it, i want to continue to make some productive work to do. and.... nobody seems interesting, since i guess, its the software thing, and... the undocumented one ??? btw: if anyone want the nicely (well... not so nice) compiled opcodes for blackfin BF531 in csv/xls format, be happy to ask. i've done it in the hardway.
your problem same with halman is worst since i dont see your rigol will ever reach the interrupt (USB FW re-upgrade, RS232 comm etc), probably you've tossed your bootloader as well! a brighter hope lies in halman, since he got parallel programmer as he mentioned.
I didin't understand why you want to trace from the altera to the spansion flash? In my opinion the flash is connected to the ADSP-BF531, not to the altera.some other forumers speculated that the 8MB spansion is shared between the blackfin and altera. and my specific problem is with the internal calibration data which possibly lies in the next 4MB which inaccessible to blackfin.
I'm still trying to find a way to reflash the spansion via the ADSP's JTAG interface?if you have the JTAG programmer, then i think you should find the manual for the adsp on how to say... program it, read or write to spansion from the programmer. but be sure to backup at least the bootloader. if you lost it, i think you can program the adsp for other kind of DSO :), i've found one open source attempt on a certain dso brand, cant remember whats it, its somewhere here in the net. the hardware is pretty close to our rigol.
If not possible, Plan B would be to desolder the flash and replace it with a new one flashed in an external programmer.do you have the original content? if not, how u gonna fill the blank flash?
I think the 02.01.01 firmware I used for downgrading uses a different boot block inside the flash which is not compatible with my hardware.why go down further to 2.01? ppl suggesting just downgrade to 2.02? i might have missed the earlier forum/posts
Replacing the whole 4MBytes flash content should therefore make the scope work again. I only hope that the 4 MBytes used are at the beginning of the entire 8MBytes flash...i really hope so, and you can report your success and more usefull data for this rigol hacking.
I've desoldered the spansion flash and read out the content (file.rar). Last Action before was downgrading to 02.01.01 (the packed *.rgl file in the attachment). I want to analyze the file to find out, where the *.rgl file has been placed. With this information I hope to be able to replace the 01.01 with a (working) 01.02 or 01.04.i agree with marianoapp, i cant find any codelike data inside. by just looking at the flash compressed file 71KB vs original 8MB, your flash only contains a highly redundant bytes with some database/structured/tabular like format chunks inside. maybe your flash got formatted by the bootloader or something... i think.
The model it's stored at position 0x1FFF40 and in reverse byte order [LSB?], e.g. "SD0125.E"
each half in the bin is 4,194,344 bytes, my 2.02 *.rgl is 4,194,325 bytes. so its 19 bytes shorter? how could you say that it got 21 bytes more than 4MB?
Hi Meiner, as I can see in the flash file you have changed the serial number before the downgrade...
The two halfs of the flash are quite identical, only 251 bytes are different, more data in the first half. And the *.rgl is with 21 bytes more than 4MB, not 16 bytes. Maybe it will work if you put the file in the lower part of the flash, without the 21 bytes...
regards
Just
Hi Just,
you are right, I already changed the serial number. I also thought about writing the *.rgl without the 21 byte header into the forst half of the flash, but after finding out that the flash contains less data than the *.rgl, I'm not so sure to do so any more. I'm afraid of damaging the solder pads on the pcb by multiple soldering/desoldering the flash...
I'm trying to get the contents of a working flash, to find out whether the few data in my flash was caused by the failed downgrade or not. I hope to find out, that the *.rgl is really placed in the lower half of the flash, if so, I can safely program a new flash and resolder it.
So, if someone could post his (working) flash content, I would be very thankful.
Anyway, I can confirm that the firmware is in the bottom half of the flash and that it indeed starts with the 21byte header removed.did u mean... not the top half? i saw the firmware is in the beginning of the file ???
I was trying to figure out the pinning of the internal JTAG header:
[...]
There should also be a 3V3 Pin at least on the header, I haven't checked it yet.
Flash S29GL064N90TFI04 runs at 3.3V, word-mode
CPU ADSP - BF531
Pin95-BMODE1 = 0V
Pin96-BMODE0 = 3V3
--> Boot from (16bit) Flash
The CPU's datasheet mentions a internal ROM; I'm not sure if it's really a ROM (meaning that even Rigol hasn't changed it) and I want to find out it's content. My goal is to get access to the CPU via the JTAG interface to try to reflash the FLASH.
I ment starting at address 0h.
I checked the file in the link you posted and its contains the same data as the file I used. I also compared the contents of my flash with an 02.04 file I found and that to is different (from that point of first difference towards 02.02)
Are there several 02.04 revisions around?
Now its getting to be more fun. You're right, only using the *IDN command via the RS-232 port does the full revision number show up. My scope is now at firmware 00.02.04.00.03 .
You can now download this firmware version at the USB upgrade for dummies thread. This file was downloaded directly from my USB stick that was used for my scope.
At the risk of belaboring the point, has anyone verified that a DS1052E shipped with 00.02.04.00.03 can be successfully "downgraded" to 00.02.02 SP2 ?
It must have been an incomplete flash. I inserted an usb stick with the firmware and ran it from the menu system, once it was done I restarted the scope, it was then it refused to start up properly. Strange things go on with the button lights they light up randomly and if i do quick restarts they move...it looks kinda like a counter is incrementing.
spansion?
I can reprogram flash memories and eeproms easily enough, if i have to. But I don't know which parts of the .rgl file to place where.. and in what order ...
we found another "bricker"! maybe rigol has take more evasive action for this hack
Someone was talking about looking for JTAG connections a while ago -- did that ever pan out?
Presumably these are manufactured with blank flash soldered in, then they are programmed
via JTAG. I suppose you could pre-program the surface mount flash in an adapter, but
that seems wrong, since you need to do a final test anyway -- might as well program the
flash at that step.
So if someone figures out the JTAG and images their flash, then the bricked scopes should
be recoverable.
Scott
At the risk of belaboring the point, has anyone verified that a DS1052E shipped with 00.02.04.00.03 can be successfully "downgraded" to 00.02.02 SP2 ?
I just updated the guide (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg6285#msg6285) for this
But I have yet to experiment further until the ZIF socket and spare spansions I have ordered arrive.
Please double-check this; I measured BMODE0/1 and got completely different results, see https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg2824#msg2824. (I also put the JTAG pinout there.)
The purpose of the ROM is to read those BMODE pins and fetch the rest of the code from the appropriate source ... if the datasheet says it's ROM, it's doubtful that Rigol can reprogram it.
we found another "bricker"! maybe rigol has take more evasive action for this hack!
can anybody point me to where i can get Spansion Flash cheaper? i need a spare for my rigol and for testing.
@lynx
@Meiner
I could be of any help reconstructing your FLASH content. The vital data seems to be OK in both cases. Could tell me the HW version (e.g. "DEM07") and the PCB version (e.g. "0941") of your scopes?
I've ordered another new DS1052E to desolder the working spansion and read the content. But on the other hand, I need a scope right now and this one's working... I will continue my repair trials in some weeks.you really got balls! be careful with the new one.
I'm a bit new to DSOs, so pardon me if this is a naive question. Should the trace on my DS1052E show "fuzz" on the top and bottom of the waveform when viewing the calibration square wave?
Indeed, and there's likely to be noise on the original signal (no signal in the real world has zero noise). Turning on averaging or bandwidth limiting should reduce it, and turning on peak detect should make it worse. As long as it's not too much (<= .1div or so, depending on bandwidth, acquisition mode and vertical sensitivity?), you shouldn't worry about it, and just get used to seeing it. I would be suspicious if I saw a completely clean signal. Using a shorter ground lead may help if you want to reduce it, Bob Pease has a good write-up about noise in scope shots (http://www.national.com/rap/Story/0,1562,18,00.html).
Entry-level DSO's tend to exaggerate noise, since they can only show one intensity. A CRT does some sort of intensity grading, random noise tends to be darker than the stable signal, so you hardly see it. More expensive scopes try to emulate this behavior, but the Rigol will just show you the last signal at a constant intensity. It's also possible that the Rigol front-end produces more noise, since the HP was probably higher-end when it was new.
This persistance mode can only work on repetitive signals; it can't work on single sweep. However, on single sweeps the noise just sits there; it doesn't dance around attracting your attention like it does on repetitive sweep.True, but most analog scopes don't work that great in single sweep mode either ;). Not much you can do for single sweeps, except bandwidth limiting or other kinds of filters (eg. notch filters).
This is a dubious "feature", more gimmick, or even bug, than feature. Although it can be useful sometimes, its primary effect, particularly if defaulted to on, is to make the scope superficially appear more accurate while actually making it less accurate. Showing you the noise in your signal can be just as important as showing the intended signal. Sometimes you want to clean up the signal but this should be done at your explicit request, after you have seen the noise, rather than hiding the noise. I have spent a lot of time extracting small signals from large amounts of noise; there is a place for cleaned up signals.They don't hide information, but combine information from previous sweeps without completely obscuring the current sweep. It simulates the persistence of real phosphor. In my opinion this feature is quite useful for complex or unstable signals, it gives you a quick visible clue about stability. It allows you to visually separate rare events from constant parts of the signal, without throwing tons of information away like with averaging. The average of a signal that's 50% of the time sinusoidal and 50% of the time DC would be an attenuated sine. Using a 'gimmick' like DPO (or Agilent/Lecroy equivalent) would show both a horizontal line and a sine, at reduced intensity.
Entry-level DSO's tend to exaggerate noise, since they can only show one intensity. A CRT does some sort of intensity grading, random noise tends to be darker than the stable signal, so you hardly see it. More expensive scopes try to emulate this behavior, but the Rigol will just show you the last signal at a constant intensity. It's also possible that the Rigol front-end produces more noise, since the HP was probably higher-end when it was new.
This persistance mode can only work on repetitive signals; it can't work on single sweep. However, on single sweeps the noise just sits there; it doesn't dance around attracting your attention like it does on repetitive sweep.
This is a dubious "feature", more gimmick, or even bug, than feature. Although it can be useful sometimes, its primary effect, particularly if defaulted to on, is to make the scope superficially appear more accurate while actually making it less accurate. Showing you the noise in your signal can be just as important as showing the intended signal. Sometimes you want to clean up the signal but this should be done at your explicit request, after you have seen the noise, rather than hiding the noise. I have spent a lot of time extracting small signals from large amounts of noise; there is a place for cleaned up signals.
The Rigol does have an infinite persistance mode (:DISPlay:PERSist), where each pixel, once written remains visible, though at a reduced intensity compared to the current refresh. This has roughly the opposite effect as the form of persistance described above as it actually highlights noise; this is likely to be more useful. It does not have exponential decay which would give the gimmick effect, though that ought to be easy to add.
The rigol has an averaging mode, where multiple sweeps are averaged together. When you want to clean up the signal and hide the noise, this is more genuinely useful than the phosphor gimick. It is vector rather than raster based, so the high resolution data sent to the computer is cleaned up and measurements made on the oscilloscope or on the computer can use the cleaned up data. In addition, it has filter modes that operate on the waveform (:CHANnel1:FILTer). The Rigol does have a switchable 20Mhz bandwidth limit (:CHANNEL1:BWLIMIT) on the input channels which can suppress high frequency noise which may be outside the frequency response of your circuity, anyway. Thus, when you do need to clean your data (preferably after inspecting the uncleaned data, first), you have several ways to do so.
One use for persistance is when using the scope as an XY display, such as when displaying simulated laser show effects (http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/08/youscope_oscilloscope_dem.html). However, the Rigol lacks a Z axis modulation input. Analog modulation would require an additional expensive high speed A/D converter channel, though it would be a zero marginal cost feature on a 4 channel scope. Digital (on/off) modulation, however, could employ the trigger input on the scope. It just takes some extra bits in memory; the memory on many fpga's is organized in multiples of 9 bits wide vs 8 bits wide so the extra bits may be free. Thus digital modulation should be a zero marginal cost upgrade on the 2 channel models.
Some noise might be an artifact of overclocking the A/D converters. One of the differences of the higher graded parts is that they might actually settle to within noise specs in the shorter alloted time available at 100Mhz vs 40Mhz. On more sluggish parts that don't make the grade, the signal may not have fully settled and may be between two A/D counts. While 1 count of noise is unavoidable as a signal may hover on the boundary between two counts effectively producing a very high noise gain, settling effects might not be consistent from sweep to sweep.
The Rigol doesn't antialias lines which can produce jagged edges on diagonal lines which are inherent on rasterized displays without antialiasing. It does appear as if it usually displays the trace by plotting two pixels vertically instead of one, but not always. This may happen when the 256 counts are reduced to somewhat less vertical pixels as a way of displaying intermediate values beyond the display resolution. This may make the noise appear a little more subdued but may also make it appear like there is 1 pixel of additional noise when you scrutinize the display.
A significant source of noise can be pickup in the probe. If you clip the probe ground lead to the tip, you have created a loop antenna which picks up noise from the surroundings. For illustration purposes, If you set this loop on top of the scope (inside the area occupied by the handle), you will see some some very significant noise from the scope itself at 2mV per division. Now, hold the clip and rotate the probe 180 degrees about its axis. This changes the ground lead from a loop to a figure 8, which like a twisted pair produces some cancelling. Even in such close proximity to the noise source, this drops the noise by more than half. Of course, you can also appear to get the opposite effect if you start in a less noisy area and rotate half the loop into the noisy area, so keep the loop(s) centered on the same area.
Emulating the persistance/brightness defects of an analog scope is a lot like tube vs transistor amplifiers. You can emulate the poorer fidelity of a tube amplifier on a solid state amplifier with a handfull of components, but only an Audiophool would argue that the tube amplifier is superior. You can give people a choice if they prefer a distorted aesthetic, just as you can blur a high quality image for a particular aesthetic but a camera which can only produce blurred images is inferior. Choice is good, locking people into bad choices or defaulting them to on so they bite the unwary, is bad.
Most of the noise on the scope at logic level scales is +/-1 count. At the 2mv/div level, it is noticeably higher but not that different from my Tektronix 2236 Analog Oscilloscope, which cost about $3500 when I bought it new or about $9700 in todays dollars. On 2mV per division (and 500uS) with a looped probe, most of the noise is within about 2 minor divisions (plus a few spikes) on the Rigol and a little over 1 on the Tektronix, using the Rigol probe on 1x in both cases, though a good portion of that difference may be the analog scope hiding the noise. With foil shorting the probe tip to the ground ring or with the probes disconnected, both scopes show about 1 minor division of noise. It is more noticable on the Rigol, but it isn't really worse. This is with a fan, a computer, two LCD monitors, a cell phone, a WiFi router, a DSL modem, a gigabit ethernet switch, a laser printer and an injet printer/scanner, a barcode printer, a DVD recorder, a couple compact fluorescent light bulbs, a keyboard and mouse, a laptop, an air conditioner, assorted cables, and two oscilloscopes making noise in the immediate vicinity. However, outside RF is significantly attenuated.
An information which is often not present or well hidden on scope's specs is the waveform capture rate. This is usually a quite embarassing information, since typical rates are few thousands wfms/s, which means you are loosing a big portion of time from a trigger to the following.Absolutely, although a few thousand wfms/s is actually much better than average, I don't think cheap DSO are anywhere close to that. Something in the order of 10-100wfms/s probably, and less with features like math/measurements enabled (sometimes <10wfms/s). Trigger re-arm time is another related parameter, although this is often specified. DSOs are much worse in this regard than analog scopes, although high-end DSOs are much better (I think they can do in the order of 100kwfm/s or so now). Another example where you need an expensive DSO to come close to the performance of a cheap old analog scope.
I did never see the current triggering rate visualized on the screen, although I think it could be interesting.
An information which is often not present or well hidden on scope's specs is the waveform capture rate. This is usually a quite embarassing information, since typical rates are few thousands wfms/s, which means you are loosing a big portion of time from a trigger to the following.Absolutely, although a few thousand wfms/s is actually much better than average, I don't think cheap DSO are anywhere close to that. Something in the order of 10-100wfms/s probably, and less with features like math/measurements enabled (sometimes <10wfms/s). Trigger re-arm time is another related parameter, although this is often specified. DSOs are much worse in this regard than analog scopes, although high-end DSOs are much better (I think they can do in the order of 100kwfm/s or so now). Another example where you need an expensive DSO to come close to the performance of a cheap old analog scope.
I did never see the current triggering rate visualized on the screen, although I think it could be interesting.
>>drieg
Hello, it would be awesome if you can do anything to help! Here is the information you requested:
PCB rev: 10 12
HW rev: DEMO7
>>Meiner
I bought them off ebay, I have yet to recieve them.
HTH 8)
If there is anyone else with partially or totally bricked scope after FW up/downgrade or unsuccessful "100MHz hack", feel free to contact me...
@lynx
@Meiner
I could be of any help reconstructing your FLASH content. The vital data seems to be OK in both cases. Could tell me the HW version (e.g. "DEM07") and the PCB version (e.g. "0941") of your scopes?
>>Meiner
I bought them off ebay, I have yet to recieve them.
>>Meiner
I bought them off ebay, I have yet to recieve them.
Hi Lynx,
I could not find any TS048 ZIF socket offers in ebay. Could you pls tell me a supplier or would you recommend to solder a flash containing a hex from drieg (still hoping I'll get one!) ?
Meiner
Ultimately I ended up not using them so if you want them you can have them just send me a PM.
Hello,
I have now reflashed my scope with the imagefile provided by drieg and the oscilloscope is alive!
Thank you drieg!
Hello all!
I have found that
http://www.goodluckbuy.com/atten-ads1102ca-100mhz-digital-oscilloscope-dso-ads1102.html (http://www.goodluckbuy.com/atten-ads1102ca-100mhz-digital-oscilloscope-dso-ads1102.html)
I found that this one is not very expensive for a 100Mhz DSO.
It looks like the Rigol...
Does anyone know this model(Atten ADS1102) ?
Thanks ;)
It seems there is a big difference, if (as I suppose) they are selling the ADS1000 series: "Memory depth of ADS1000 is 4K and that of ADS1000M is 2M"Apparently they sell the ADS1102CA, and after looking at official website
From this data it seems a good alternative to the Rigol, and it's cheaper. Unfortunately, while the Rigol has been tested and reviewed by many users, the Atten has not, so there could be minor details which make one of the two better than the other (about usability, for example).
However, consider that for many people these Atten products are copies of Rigol ones, and ADS1000 seems a copy of DS1000CA, the old Rigol series (take a look at this forum, too: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958&page=33 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958&page=33)).
Thanks for this great information!
I have checked the 2 DSO (ADS1102CA and DS1102CA: they're the same...)
Atten seems to be a copy of old Rigol as you said...
So I will buy a Rigol DSO !
One question regarding the Trigger "Sweep". There is a setting "Single", which per the documentation captures a single waveform.
My question is, what comprises a "single waveform?" Is it basically until the trigger condition goes away, or something else entirely?
--phil
Single mode allows the scope for a single trigger to be activated. So it could be called "one-shot", in other words it waits for the trigger and then acquires data until it reached the end of the screen or the end of the memory. Now I haven't one by hand, but I think it should acquire one screenshot, since by setting the sampling rate (or the timebase, if the ratio between these two is automatically set by the scope) you can decide how much time you'd like to record.
It is used for seeing rare events, or events that are each different one from the others, even if they all could activate the trigger For example, if you want to see the response of a program on an MCU to the first time it receives a byte on the UART, you can set trigger mode on "single", falling edge trigger on the RX signal and a proper timebase, so that the screen contains the whole response of your interest. If on the UART there will be other data after the first byte, and if you were on "auto" or "normal" mode (instead of "single" you will see the series of the various responses together, so not letting you see how the first was.
What may be interesting to some is the fact that the usual IC's have been anonymised by removal of their ID markings but my scope contains IC's that appear to have been sand blasted in a very professional manner.
that's the self-calibration unit, it runs with 125Mhz.Do you mean that it has a 125Meg oscillator on board which is used for the sole purpose of selfcalibration???
that's the self-calibration unit, it runs with 125Mhz.Do you mean that it has a 125Meg oscillator on board which is used for the sole purpose of selfcalibration???
Ted come here again, if you guys are still interested in ds1052e scope, welcome to my site anytime 8)update your own thread! >:( :P
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't for interleaved ADCs the clock shit more important ? That's 50ps between rising edges of each clock period (which is probably measure period).
In a worst case we can still solder 10bit ADCs (AD9218, pin compatible to AD9288) and use only 8 MSB bits ^^
Actually, I dont believe AD9288 data align provides 180 degree phase shift. Its only for the output, data is still sampled independently on the rising edge of each clock. But output from channel B is 1/2 period delayed.
I did checked my Tekway, and it is not using this mode. Actually it is set to S1=1 and S2=0,
so sampled data and clock are both shifted by 180 degree.
As this is standard mode with two clocks Rigol will have probably same settings.
Maybe someone can unsolder the varicap and test with 2 x 2.2pF (1.1pF total) in series, i can't because i'm Tekway/Hantek "junkie" (flolic maybe you?)
I found the Rigol DS1000E programming guide on their site.... that may be what you need as it contains all manner of commands.
Take a look here:
http://www.rigolna.com/pdfs/Programming_Guides/DS1000E_Programming_Guide.pdf (http://www.rigolna.com/pdfs/Programming_Guides/DS1000E_Programming_Guide.pdf)
Can anyone give me any pointers on how to use the ":WAVEFORM:POINTS:MODE MAXIMUM" mode?I suggest looking at the above posts from Shafri, he links to a control GUI he has developed for the Rigol, maybe this can help.
I've tried this (in code): stop the scope -> set ":WAVEFORM:POINTS:MODE MAXIMUM" mode -> run scope -> wait for trigger status change to triggered -> stop scope -> get data. But I still get just 600 points of data. What am I doing wrong?
Can anyone give me any pointers on how to use the ":WAVEFORM:POINTS:MODE MAXIMUM" mode?
I've tried this (in code): stop the scope -> set ":WAVEFORM:POINTS:MODE MAXIMUM" mode -> run scope -> wait for trigger status change to triggered -> stop scope -> get data. But I still get just 600 points of data. What am I doing wrong?
Can anyone give me any pointers on how to use the ":WAVEFORM:POINTS:MODE MAXIMUM" mode?
I've tried this (in code): stop the scope -> set ":WAVEFORM:POINTS:MODE MAXIMUM" mode -> run scope -> wait for trigger status change to triggered -> stop scope -> get data. But I still get just 600 points of data. What am I doing wrong?
Use the single shot mode.
Does this 50 to 100MHz hack still work with the newer Rigol? DS1052E's?I ordered mine December 1st at DX, when I receive it, I'll place it here if it is possible to hack or has the 02.05 version.
I would like to order a Rigol DS1052E. Got a few questions.
Is it possible to find the firmware version of the Rigol DS1052E.
That would be very important to me.
You'll get 02.05
.....
I wonder if there are bare jtag pins on the pcb?
Yeah, looks like Tekway is a improved copy of Rigol with some changes on ADC/FPGA/LCD part.
Analog inputs are just routed differently and all that trigger support circuitry looks also very similar with the same parts...
I am still curious what is all that circuitry is supposed to do? Would not 1 comparator be enough? I noticed there is a LT1790 reference chip, I thought it could be used for self calibration, but turns out like it feeds a REF pin of LTC2601 DAC. Rigol board does not have those parts.
There are a few analog multiplexers there with -1Db drop at 100Mhz, Could that be a bottleneck? Seems like the rest of the components would handle 200Mhz+ not a problem
Hi everybody,
I was drilling for some time the subject of Rigol but just recently noticed that software upgrade for FW 02.05 is not (yet) possible. I believe one day some smart guy bring the SW hack, but meanwhile I would like to make sure, there is backup with hardware hack (I am hobbyist :). I have read initial posts but I have not seen that removal of C1 (on drawing in this post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg2697#msg2697)) is confirmed as valid. And what about range for wider bandwidth, will the DSO switch to faster time base or just measurements/interpolation will be more accurate?
cheers,
andy.
I've read all the messages up to page 28 and read how a terminal program on a PC can be connected to the RS232 port. And used to change the Model and Serial number, I shouldn't have any problems with doing that.
@flolic: what signal were you measuring?
I have received my DS1052E today from DealExtreme. Looks like no hack for me at the moment. Details of my version below:
DS1ED125xxxxxx
Software: 00.02.05.02.00
DSP: 00.00
FPGA: 02.00
HardVersion: 58
I am wondering if since I have gone from version 02.05 SP2 to 02.02 SP2 then perhaps the Ultrascope software that came with version 02.05 SP2 is not compatible with the downgraded version. What are your thoughts and by the way...i dont know. but thats a possiblity. try older version ultrascope then is its compatible with 2.02, try:
Make sure you haven't set the pc connection mode to pictbridge, i did that while playing first and then couldn't connect via ultrascope. The scope was actually installing automatically as an imaging device and it was giving the same two options you mentioned in ultrascope.
congratulation! you made it continuing again until we see another 2.06 firmware ;)I hope the George's hack will work for longer time, as Rigol guys can not do too much with header.
I hope the George's hack will work for longer time, as Rigol guys can not do too much with header.Thank you, tonva!
Expecting they want the old firmware be able to upgrade, the header format will remain unchanged.
Great work, George!
Thanks for that. So the Z version is the better choise, despite all the drawbacks and the price difference.