Author Topic: The Rigol DS1052E  (Read 536844 times)

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TrentO

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2009, 02:07:29 am »
Filip,

Excellent pictures!!!

They put my instant-camera photos to shame!

I'm going to start my analysis today-- I intend to use my Tektronix TDS 220 and 66, 100 and 125 MHz clock sources to find the source of attenuation.

I think your pictures will serve as an excellent reference for our efforts-- they are that good! 

-Trent
 

TrentO

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2009, 05:22:48 am »
No obvious differences between my DS1052E and Flolic's DS1102E-- I disassembled my 1052E again to compare (due to my worthless / crappy photos.)

I then decided to feed my 1052E a constant 125MHz waveform and attempt to measure attenuation along at the test-points. This turned out to be a no-can-do. (For those that bitch about file size, just don't look at it.)



The photo shows my Rigol happily displaying 125MHz at 1.62 V-p-p, and my Tektronix in the background displaying the same, at about 400mv-p-p. But, notice-- the probe going to the Tektronix is simply sitting on the workbench with the tip shorted out. There is so much RFI generated by my clock source, that my entire workspace is bathed in a 125MHz waveform! It's the same with the Rigol switched off; unplugging the bnc from the Rigol diminishes the signal quite a bit, but the only way to eliminate it, is to turn off the hardware providing my clock source, or removing the probe-tip from the oscillator lead.

So basically, the 125Mhz on the Rigol metal case (acting as an antenna) is higher than the signal I can find on the Rigol test-pads or even the center lead on the bnc header itself! 

That dedicated function generator is starting to look like an attractive purchase again....

-Trent

 

TrentO

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2009, 05:36:07 am »
PBut that diode right next to the big primary side electrolytic reached 94C!!!

Really? The one in mine only gets a little warm-- I can keep my finger on it while the unit's on. Don't worry-- I was careful... and we use only 120v AC here in the U.S.  ;)

 

Online Simon

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2009, 08:01:54 am »
I think its so that the memory lasts long enough, everyone "lies" about there products, or to put it more sutley and as captain spock would: exagerates
 

Offline qno

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2009, 07:43:41 pm »
That would be logical...................
Why spend money I don't have on things I don't need to impress people I don't like?
 

Offline flolic

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #80 on: November 14, 2009, 07:47:00 pm »
Yes, but that's NOT what specifications says!
 

Offline flolic

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2009, 09:47:04 pm »
Front end, Dave's 1052 vs my 1102

 

Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2009, 09:47:43 am »
Photography is my other hobby so making panoramic images is something I do a lot  ;)

Let's go to PSU board:


Few thoughts about temperatures, fan and fan noise. My plan was to reduce fan speed to lower noise. Before that I take some temperature measurements... I checked temperatures inside the scope with my IR thermometer. Hottest parts on the main board are definitely AD converters, followed by FPGA. They reached around 50 degrees Celsius. Other hot part is that 7905 regulator in the bottom left. But I think fan cooling is not needed for main board, those temperatures are relatively low.
On the other hand, parts of PSU get really hot. Left top (LM317) and left bottom (some diode) heatsinks are at 70C. But that diode right next to the big primary side electrolytic reached 94C!!! Room temperature was 20C.
I aborted the mission and leave fan at full speed  :(

i might be tempted to pop a a heatsink on the ADCs, keeping them cool will help with noise, especially as they are overclocked

shame the PSU is being pushed hard. I guess it's easy to replace components if they fail, but annoying if they end up cooking the pcb and surrounding components. Worth remote-mounting a higher rated one?

Also notice a high-volt driver at the top of the board, is that for the LCD backlight? - Am surprised they are not using LED backlight for a screen that size.

i'm still waiting for my 1052 to land in the uk
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Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2009, 10:20:04 am »
Front end, Dave's 1052 vs my 1102



thanks for the side-by-side view frolic, great work there!

they are very similar, but there's differences in the pcb for sure. The 1052 looks like it's using a Cosmo KAQY214S SSR ( http://www.cosmo-ic.com/object/products/KAQY214S.pdf) instead of the mechanical relay of the 1102. Could this limit the bandwidth?

other than the components ralated to the SSR everything else seems the same to me?
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GeekGirl

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2009, 10:27:27 am »
Front end, Dave's 1052 vs my 1102



thanks for the side-by-side view frolic, great work there!

they are very similar, but there's differences in the pcb for sure. The 1052 looks like it's using a Cosmo KAQY214S SSR ( http://www.cosmo-ic.com/object/products/KAQY214S.pdf) instead of the mechanical relay of the 1102. Could this limit the bandwidth?

other than the components ralated to the SSR everything else seems the same to me?

The datasheet does not give a frequency bandwidth for this device, but it depends on how it is used in the circuit. If the PCB is a double sided board, could you guys trace out the circuit, should not need to much, although if you could do from the BNC to the ADC we could analyse the circuit fully.
 

Online Simon

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2009, 12:57:15 pm »
I was also considering an exrernal power supply but for all the wires coming of the psu, its as though some parts are on the main board
 

TrentO

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2009, 03:20:29 pm »

they are very similar, but there's differences in the pcb for sure. The 1052 looks like it's using a Cosmo KAQY214S SSR ( http://www.cosmo-ic.com/object/products/KAQY214S.pdf) instead of the mechanical relay of the 1102. Could this limit the bandwidth?

other than the components ralated to the SSR everything else seems the same to me?

The board in my DS1052E is exactly like FLolic's-- down to the FT relays and silk-screened labels. The only difference is the minor 'patch' on the LCD driver IC on mine. I believe Dave has a slightly earlier rev board.  

I would suspect the 'shaved' IC's in the analog section-- there's has to be a reason why they insist on defacing the labels.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 02:31:19 am by TrentO »
 

Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2009, 12:01:54 am »
my 1052 arrived today, purchased through goodlucksell on ebay, was decent of them to declare it's value as $30 for customs ;D

really quite impressed with it so far
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Online Simon

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2009, 07:45:55 am »
I really wonder how this customs business works, if I can put 10% of the real value down what is customs achieving, don't they ever check stuff against its declared value. most small stuff I ever bought from china on ebay comes as a "gift"
 

Offline flolic

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2009, 08:37:50 am »
Here in Croatia, I had to pay 23% VAT on real value, not declared (declared value was 60$)  >:(
It's all up to a good will of a custom officers, if they think that real value is greater than declared (and in this case it obviously is), they ask for a Paypal invoice. If you don't give them invoice (or altered it to smaller amount  ;D) they can, and will, easily check ebay auction. Then you are i trouble  ;D
OTOH, smaller packages, not necessary low valued, usually pass without any duty...
 

Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2009, 10:18:31 am »
The board in my DS1052E is exactly like FLolic's-- down to the FT relays and silk-screened labels. The only difference is the minor 'patch' on the LCD driver IC on mine. I believe Dave has a slightly earlier rev board.  

I would suspect the 'shaved' IC's in the analog section-- there's has to be a reason why they insist on defacing the labels.

do we have any other pics where these two other ICs have not been sanded properly and might reveal what they are?

i've not opened mine up yet
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Offline flolic

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2009, 10:32:17 am »
Unfortunately, I think no...  :-[
 

Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2009, 11:26:54 am »
i'm going to use/test mine for a few days before i open it
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Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2009, 08:13:10 pm »
did anyone get anywhere with a bandwidth hack for this scope in the end?
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Offline armandas

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2009, 08:11:25 pm »
It seems that Rigols are getting extinct on ebay. There were loads of them some time ago, they were even priced as low as £219. Yesterday I saved the only seller that still sold them cheaply and.. today I only get 8 results all starting at over £300. Go figure.. Did I miss the chance to get a decent entry-level scope for a bargain price? ???
 

Machina

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2009, 09:39:50 pm »
You noticed that as well.

I thought perhaps it had to do with the Christmas season, although it made no sense for the Chinese suppliers to lay off during Christmas.

Perhaps Rigol finally got tough on behalf of their authorized distributors. Who knows?
 

Offline chemicaloliver

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2009, 12:19:07 am »
Or have Rigol increased the wholesale price?

In other news I bagged one at 219 pounds on Christmas day  8) just to wait for it to arrive
 

Offline jone

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2009, 09:26:55 am »
Perhaps Rigol finally got tough on behalf of their authorized distributors. Who knows?

eBay just recently pulled the auction listing for the scope I bought a couple of months ago...

"We'd like to let you know that eBay has ended an item you were bidding on for breaching of one or more of our policies. As it's important that eBay maintains member privacy, we can't tell you exactly why the listing was removed."

Thought it was weird at the time, perhaps Rigol are clamping down on sellers then?
 

Offline armandas

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2009, 09:45:35 am »
I contacted the saved seller asking him what was goin on. He replied (emphasis mine):
Quote
Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a dumping price
<...>

Something weird is going on here. Perhaps he was selling the scopes significantly lower than MSRP (breach of contract or something?)..
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 09:52:21 am by armandas »
 

Online Simon

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Re: The Rigol DS1052E
« Reply #99 on: December 31, 2009, 09:57:28 am »
sounds odd, I'm sure more than one seller was selling at rather low prices.
 


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