The Ultimate "Fuse" Con

[Mr Smiley]

Hi,

Here's one to get Dave going 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150695403285&ss

[SeanB]

Nice price, fancy box, gold plated, black label, ooooooh AudioPhoolery time.......

[tom66]

Teardown time!

Why the diode and cap on the fuse I don't know. I mean, who'd believe fuses are directional? Only an idiot, right? Right...?

Oh.

[digsys]

WOW cool, I just bought 10. Will they work on my torch?

[BravoV]

WOW cool, I just bought 10. Will they work on my torch?

Yup, you will definitely "feel" the difference, the light came out from your torch will have "purer" light and more pleasing to human eyes. 

[tom66]

Also, the torch will sound more 3D.

[Short Circuit]

If they were to make 3/8" versions of these, it would really be the end of uCurrent.
Finally we could upgrade our DMM's ro measure sparkling microamps in the 10A range with virtually zero burden voltage 

Not sure about the fance box it comes in. I'm affraid you'd need to keep it closeby for the magic to happen,
preferably in sight. Ok for hifi, but that would not be very praktical for DMM use. Pity.

[tom66]

But not as bad as this:-

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm

[GeoffS]

But not as bad as this:-

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm

You'd think at that price, they would at least include free shipping...

[tom66]

I'd like it delivered in person by the chief product engineer himself, wrapped in the finest gold silk money can buy...

The explanation is hilarious, but then you realise, some people actually BUY these things. http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina42.htm

[grumpydoc]

But not as bad as this:-

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm

Please tell me that's a piss-take.

[Kibi]

You can buy extended warranty for this fuse too, just $8.49

[ejeffrey]

You're not telling me you chumps all use _stock_ fuses are you?

I be you don't even polarize the tachyon beam.

[EEVblog]

Fark, they actually sold one!

Dave.

[AntiProtonBoy]

The breast pump could have used one of these little puppies.

[Isaac-1]

This reminds me of my Fluke 1507 insulation meter, where Fluke gets about $15 each for the odd size fuse, and Amprobe sells the exact same brand and part number fuse (SIBA, FF315 DMI 1000V ) at 5 for $12.

[EEVblog]

And the same seller has these puppies!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shakti-On-lines-Electromagnetic-Stabilizer-NEW-/160858399845?pt=US_Surge_Protectors_Power_Strips&hash=item2573e86465#ht_2596wt_1139

Dave.

[ftransform]

Do you think they actually used those special materials and some kind of cryo bullshit to make that fuse?

[EEVblog]

Do you think they actually used those special materials and some kind of cryo bullshit to make that fuse?

In general, I think that most of these companies manufacture it how they claim.
Most of them do actually believe this stuff, and that what they are peddling actually makes a difference as they claim.
They are of course delusional.

Dave.

[ftransform]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_treatment

wiki seems like its a somewhat real process.
Do any real electronics use cryogenic treatment? I am not saying audio stuff but some kind of high end nasa/icbm/100 grand scientific equipment stuff...


.
Advantages

Comparison of cryorolling and rolling at room temperature:

    In Cryorolling, the strain hardening is retained up to the extent to which rolling is carried out. This implies that there will be no dislocation annihilation and dynamic recovery. Whereas in rolling at room temperature, dynamic recovery is inevitable and softening takes place.
    The flow stress of the material differs for the sample which is subjected to cryorolling. A cryorolled sample has a higher flow stress compared to a sample subjected to rolling at room temperature.
    Cross slip and climb of dislocations are effectively suppressed during cryorolling leading to high dislocation density which is not the case for room temperature rolling.
    The corrosion resistance of the cryorolled sample comparatively decreases due to the high residual stress involved.
    The number of electron scattering centres increases for the cryorolled sample and hence the electrical conductivity decreases significantly.
    The cryorolled sample shows a high dissolution rate.
    Ultra-fine-grained structures can be produced from cryorolled samples after subsequent annealing.


I did not pay enough attention in semiconductor physics to know if "electron scattering center" is a real phenomena

*and I don't mean actively submerging stuff in LN during its operation but doing some kind of cryogenic "treatment" on the wire.

[Neilm]

It reminded me of some gold plated optical fiber I saw here
http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/31187970/840157275/Cables-4-ALL-Premium-Gold-2m-Digital-Optical-Audio-Cable/ListingDetails.html?_$ja=tsid%3a11518|cat%3a31187970|prd%3a31187970
 
Neil

[Wartex]

The breast pump could have used one of these little puppies.

Dave hacked it into a penis pump.

[T4P]

It reminded me of some gold plated optical fiber I saw here
http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/31187970/840157275/Cables-4-ALL-Premium-Gold-2m-Digital-Optical-Audio-Cable/ListingDetails.html?_$ja=tsid%3a11518|cat%3a31187970|prd%3a31187970
 
Neil

Tell me this isn't real ... well at least it doesn't cost 500 bucks neither is it cryogenically treated

[grumpydoc]

In general, I think that most of these companies manufacture it how they claim.

This seems self-evident, it's easy to check that a claim such as "the fuse is made from 95% silver/5% gold wire" is true and there is trading standards legislation in most of the world which can be brought to bear if it turns out the wire is made from highly polished brass.

Most of them do actually believe this stuff, and that what they are peddling actually makes a difference as they claim.

I find this a harder pill to swallow. At least not if the people behind the product are conventionally sane. None of these things produce an objective (i.e measurable with test equipment) or even reliably subjective (i.e reproducible in double blind trials) difference - if there's a decent engineer anywhere near the design and manufacture of these items the lack of tangible benefit must be obvious. At the very least there's a deliberate avoidance of reliable comparison techniques in favour of flowery language in descriptions.

Admittedly audio is a minefield of perceptions, psychology and personal taste. Even when you can measure things it's often the case that a signal degradation actually "improves" the perceived sound. The right type of distortion sounds "nicer" and more "musical", the right amount of echo and reverb  sounds "fuller" etc etc - there's no wonder there's room for dubious claims.

They are of course delusional.

More, or less, than the people who buy it?

I must admit though that I can sort-of see a logic to the gold plated fuse. At least it is one end of a continuum that starts with something  plausible and generally acceptable (gold plating for low voltage signal contacts), goes a little OTT - "if gold plating the input connectors improves that 0.1mV phono signal then it must improve that 50V speaker signal", then AWOL - "if gold plating the audio connectors helps then we must do it everywhere", then finally landing at the slightly bizarre "if we have a gold plated mains plug, it must need a gold plated fuse".

[IanB]

Well my car usually runs better after it has been washed and valeted, so I'm sure a hi-fi system can sound better after it has been treated to special mains cables and fuses. Who can argue with psychology?

[HardBoot]

Your audio must sound great when you get rid of the nasty negative half of sound waves.

Someone should ask the bugger why there's a diode and cap symbol on the fuse.

[member_xyz]

http://machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Lot more on the home page.

[AntiProtonBoy]

http://machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Lot more on the home page.

From the website:

The Quantum Temple Bell

is an extensively treated Tibetan hand bell that improves audio and video system when it is rung in "strategic locations" around the room; these strategic locations are identified in our instructions for the bell. The bell operates by mind-matter interaction as opposed to affecting room acoustics or electronics. The bell ringing procedure takes about 2 minutes and is permanent; the bell ringing procedure can be performed once a month or as often as desired to ensure optimum performance. Further improvements can be obtained by repeating the procedure in all rooms of the house.

[G7PSK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_treatment

wiki seems like its a somewhat real process.
Do any real electronics use cryogenic treatment? I am not saying audio stuff but some kind of high end nasa/icbm/100 grand scientific equipment stuff...


.
Advantages

Comparison of cryorolling and rolling at room temperature:

    In Cryorolling, the strain hardening is retained up to the extent to which rolling is carried out. This implies that there will be no dislocation annihilation and dynamic recovery. Whereas in rolling at room temperature, dynamic recovery is inevitable and softening takes place.
    The flow stress of the material differs for the sample which is subjected to cryorolling. A cryorolled sample has a higher flow stress compared to a sample subjected to rolling at room temperature.
    Cross slip and climb of dislocations are effectively suppressed during cryorolling leading to high dislocation density which is not the case for room temperature rolling.
    The corrosion resistance of the cryorolled sample comparatively decreases due to the high residual stress involved.
    The number of electron scattering centres increases for the cryorolled sample and hence the electrical conductivity decreases significantly.
    The cryorolled sample shows a high dissolution rate.
    Ultra-fine-grained structures can be produced from cryorolled samples after subsequent annealing.


I did not pay enough attention in semiconductor physics to know if "electron scattering center" is a real phenomena

*and I don't mean actively submerging stuff in LN during its operation but doing some kind of cryogenic "treatment" on the wire.

If you deformed most metals at cryogenic temperatures it would just shatter, the same goes for most other materials, at school we used to dip rubber sheet into a mixture of dry ice and acetone that made the rubber cold enough so that when hit or bent it would shatter like a pane of glass. Is that wiki entry done by one of these nut's.

[amyk]

http://machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Lot more on the home page.

Looking at all their products, one really has to wonder whether they truly believe that this stuff works, or are running a really clever scam reselling common items at absurd prices.

[tom66]

http://machinadynamica.com/machina62.htm

 

[grumpydoc]

Looking at all their products, one really has to wonder whether they truly believe that this stuff works, or are running a really clever scam reselling common items at absurd prices.

Looking at their products the only conclusion I can come to is that it's all a gigantic piss-take.

Or else they subscribe to the theory that an (audio)fool and his money will soon be parted and they're the ones that are going to do the parting.

[FenderBender]

http://machinadynamica.com/machina62.htm

 

Oh my....

This website is hilarious.

These are the effects of placing a quarter sized silver disc next to the spinning CD in a CD player...

The CD will then be permanently upgraded and will sound much more open, detailed and dynamic, with no distortion - better than a remastered version!

[tom66]

http://machinadynamica.com/machina62.htm

 

Oh my....

This website is hilarious.

These are the effects of placing a quarter sized silver disc next to the spinning CD in a CD player...

The CD will then be permanently upgraded and will sound much more open, detailed and dynamic, with no distortion - better than a remastered version!

That's not the only product like that though - there are things such as this, a CD demagnetiser: http://www.bedini.com/clarifier.htm


And this site is similar, though it looks far more serious... http://www.goldensound.com/productlist/next-generation-audio-accessories ... I am losing hope in humanity.

[minime72706]

Holy shit I really wish I had not looked at the list of recent posts to find this thread. This kind of thing drives me MAD and this fuse, though not $500, is one of the worst things I've seen...
AND SOMEONE BOUGHT ONE!

My psyche is just too fragile to handle the truth that people are stupid enough to believe in this crap.

BRBtherapist.

[T4P]

[G7PSK]

I once made some essential oil distillation equipment for a company that went in for this sort of madness. I cant quite recall what the name was but it was along the lines of Pharma sutra. While setting the equipment up and giving it a trial run the owner of the business came round and told every one not to turn the power on in the ware house as he turned it of in order to energize the product, which was shampoo and soaps and other cosmetics. When I asked some one else what he meant I was informed that the process involved him going into the ware house and chanting while waving a crystal around on the end of a chain, the power had to be off as this would interfere with the energizing. I did not laugh out loud then and there as I wanted to collect my payment for the equipment and hopefully sell more to him and other such nut cases that he may know, but he and others within the firm really believed in the power of these crystals. 

[ftransform]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_treatment

wiki seems like its a somewhat real process.
Do any real electronics use cryogenic treatment? I am not saying audio stuff but some kind of high end nasa/icbm/100 grand scientific equipment stuff...


.
Advantages

Comparison of cryorolling and rolling at room temperature:

    In Cryorolling, the strain hardening is retained up to the extent to which rolling is carried out. This implies that there will be no dislocation annihilation and dynamic recovery. Whereas in rolling at room temperature, dynamic recovery is inevitable and softening takes place.
    The flow stress of the material differs for the sample which is subjected to cryorolling. A cryorolled sample has a higher flow stress compared to a sample subjected to rolling at room temperature.
    Cross slip and climb of dislocations are effectively suppressed during cryorolling leading to high dislocation density which is not the case for room temperature rolling.
    The corrosion resistance of the cryorolled sample comparatively decreases due to the high residual stress involved.
    The number of electron scattering centres increases for the cryorolled sample and hence the electrical conductivity decreases significantly.
    The cryorolled sample shows a high dissolution rate.
    Ultra-fine-grained structures can be produced from cryorolled samples after subsequent annealing.


I did not pay enough attention in semiconductor physics to know if "electron scattering center" is a real phenomena

*and I don't mean actively submerging stuff in LN during its operation but doing some kind of cryogenic "treatment" on the wire.

If you deformed most metals at cryogenic temperatures it would just shatter, the same goes for most other materials, at school we used to dip rubber sheet into a mixture of dry ice and acetone that made the rubber cold enough so that when hit or bent it would shatter like a pane of glass. Is that wiki entry done by one of these nut's.

Would thicker metals shatter too? Like a 1 inch thick steel plate?
I've heard of a cryo-process being used in knife steel , I do believe that one resulted some some detectable difference in grain structure or w/e but I don't know much about metalurgy and neither do I remember this process. Does anyone else have any thoughts?

[SeanB]

I have seen freeze drying used to make powdered fruit, and have seen liquid nitrogen used to allow assembly of mechanical parts ( axle stubs into the wheel casting of aircraft) with no deformation. I do know ultra fast cooling from red heat does make steel harder than plain quenching, as it freezes the grain structure before it has time to change structure.

[AndyC_772]

This is why I don't post on hi-fi forums any more. Not only is there a lot of nonsense out there, it's fiercely defended nonsense.

I once made myself quite unpopular in a discussion about jitter on digital outputs, by actually measuring it with a scope and posting the results including screen shots. Cold, hard facts don't seem to go down too well when fluff and speculation are available.

A few years ago I did build myself a DAC using nothing more than good science, proper layout technique and high quality components. Oddly enough, it sounds great - but maybe it would be better still with a silver & gold fuse connecting it to my house wiring (which, for an self-confessed audiophile I'm ashamed to admit, is only copper)?

[saturation]

There are even worse things in the audiophile world:

http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm

Cables, naturally, not included 

[T4P]

WTF is that shit, again AUDIOPHOOLERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[poptones]

It's psychology. You really can't discount it because to those of this mindset things like shakti stones and tice clocks really do make a difference - to them. All perception is... perspective. It's subjective. Why do people ring temple bells? Why do people believe in talking snakes or engrams? It provides them something they subjectively desire.

Google Harvey Rosenberg. He's a legendary writer from the annals of audiophiledom. Known as "Gizmo" he never dared take things too seriously, yet was always able to engage in a way that wasn't demeaning or condescending. Read some of his stuff and you'll come to understand this "audiophoolery" much better.

http://www.meta-gizmo.net/intro/ECSTACYBOOK.html