| General > General Technical Chat |
| The US electrical system |
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| joseph nicholas:
Here we go again. In all of North America, the newest utility meters can turn off the power to your house without even going outside the main power station, its all done remotely. If the cops want to get you off guard to invade your home, all they need to do is cut the power to your house and you will come outside to see what the fuck is happening. Gotcha, without every getting their hands dirty. It's your world, more ways to have your liberties die. |
| rstofer:
--- Quote from: ciccio on June 24, 2020, 03:23:14 pm --- --- Quote from: GlennSprigg on June 24, 2020, 01:06:45 pm --- I always wondered how/if in Australia we have a heater, or clothes drier or air-cond, running on 240v and drawing 15A, then on 120v in the U.S. then it must be drawing 30-Amps!!?? That never sounded right?? And yes, outlets without 'Switches'?? Why?? --- End quote --- If you are in the US and you have an heater in a room, (e-g- an electric stove), it will be powered via a ridicolus plug at 120 V. The plug will overheat and a fire will start, in the standard US home built with wood. When I was in Seattle 20 years ago, I noticed a lot of firetrucks passing by, a lot more than was usual in Europe. My US friend said: it's normal, Christmas is coming... --- End quote --- That is just wrong! I can't even imagine an oven or stove top that isn't running on 240V. A typical stove top might have 2 ea 3kW heaters and 2 ea 1kW heater for a total of 8kW, probably more. This would take at least 33 Amps at 240V and the typical circuit is probably 50A. Based on 80% usage of circuit breaker ratings, a 40A circuit would be too small so it's usually 50A. The clothes dryer is probably 30A at 240V. Well pump, pool filter, HVAC also run on 240V. I'm not talking about window mounted AC units, I'm talking central air and perhaps a 3200 square foot house. Throw in a 1200W microwave, a 5 kW air conditioner, maybe a few kW for an arc welder plus, of course, the automotive EV charger and 20 kW wouldn't be a surprise. That's the reason most service panels are 200A. For a single family dwelling, 100A might prove to be too small. I know I missed (or misstated) some of the loads. It's a fact that people used to have me replace their 100A panels with 200A. I didn't like doing residential work but sometimes the people were friends of friends, that kind of thing. ETA: I forgot to add in another 5kW for the oven! The reason that the European countries have such low demand limits (the US has none, I have installed 400A residential panels) is that the system is underbuilt. What's a 'contract'. We connect to the utility (actually, they connect to us) and we use whatever we want. If our load is too high, and there is some legitimate reason, they will simply run a bigger drop and probably install a bigger transformer. They're in the business of selling electricity, not telling their customers that they buy too much. When I had solar power (different house) an 8 kW array provided all the energy we needed. At the end of the year (known as settle-up), I owed the utility nothing for electricity other than a non-negotiable meter charge of $5/month. It's pretty clear that we exceeded 8 kW during the heat of the day but it all averaged out. |
| themadhippy:
--- Quote ---In all of North America, the newest utility meters can turn off the power to your house without even going outside the main power station --- End quote --- Not just limited to america,but anywhere were smart meters are installed.However that aint the worst aspect of smart meters,with them the utility providers are now able to measure your power factor and charge accordingly --- Quote --- clothes dryer is probably 30A at 240V. --- End quote --- 7kw to dry yer clothes, aint you guys heard of washing lines |
| rstofer:
--- Quote from: themadhippy on June 24, 2020, 09:44:47 pm --- --- Quote ---In all of North America, the newest utility meters can turn off the power to your house without even going outside the main power station --- End quote --- Not just limited to america,but anywhere were smart meters are installed.However that aint the worst aspect of smart meters,with them the utility providers are now able to measure your power factor and charge accordingly. --- End quote --- But they're not doing it anywhere I have ever heard of. More popular is Time of Use billing and, around here, that is pretty much a dead issue. Individual customers can subscribe to that type of billing if it suits them, the rest of us just kiss it off. |
| Monkeh:
--- Quote from: rstofer on June 24, 2020, 09:43:48 pm --- --- Quote from: ciccio on June 24, 2020, 03:23:14 pm --- --- Quote from: GlennSprigg on June 24, 2020, 01:06:45 pm --- I always wondered how/if in Australia we have a heater, or clothes drier or air-cond, running on 240v and drawing 15A, then on 120v in the U.S. then it must be drawing 30-Amps!!?? That never sounded right?? And yes, outlets without 'Switches'?? Why?? --- End quote --- If you are in the US and you have an heater in a room, (e-g- an electric stove), it will be powered via a ridicolus plug at 120 V. The plug will overheat and a fire will start, in the standard US home built with wood. When I was in Seattle 20 years ago, I noticed a lot of firetrucks passing by, a lot more than was usual in Europe. My US friend said: it's normal, Christmas is coming... --- End quote --- That is just wrong! I can't even imagine an oven or stove top that isn't running on 240V. A typical stove top might have 2 ea 3kW heaters and 2 ea 1kW heater for a total of 8kW, probably more. This would take at least 33 Amps at 240V and the typical circuit is probably 50A. Based on 80% usage of circuit breaker ratings, a 40A circuit would be too small so it's usually 50A. The clothes dryer is probably 30A at 240V. Well pump, pool filter, HVAC also run on 240V. I'm not talking about window mounted AC units, I'm talking central air and perhaps a 3200 square foot house. --- End quote --- stove, noun, "A heater, a closed apparatus to burn fuel for the warming of a room." Not a great leap to realise he's not talking about your kitchen stove. --- Quote ---The reason that the European countries have such low demand limits (the US has none, I have installed 400A residential panels) is that the system is underbuilt. What's a 'contract'. We connect to the utility (actually, they connect to us) and we use whatever we want. If our load is too high, and there is some legitimate reason, they will simply run a bigger drop and probably install a bigger transformer. They're in the business of selling electricity, not telling their customers that they buy too much. --- End quote --- Well, see, you pay for the provision and connection of a service capable of a particular load, and that's what you receive. If you want bigger, uhm, you'll have to pay for it. contract, noun, "An agreement between two or more parties, to perform a specific job or work order, often temporary or of fixed duration and usually governed by a written agreement." |
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