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The US electrical system
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rstofer:

--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 24, 2020, 09:53:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: rstofer on June 24, 2020, 09:43:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: ciccio on June 24, 2020, 03:23:14 pm ---
If you are in the US and  you have an heater in a room, (e-g- an electric stove), it will be powered via a ridicolus plug at 120 V. The plug will overheat and a fire will start, in the standard US home built with wood.
When I was in Seattle 20 years ago, I noticed a lot of firetrucks passing by, a lot more than was usual in Europe.
My US friend said: it's normal, Christmas is coming...

--- End quote ---

That is just wrong!  I can't even imagine an oven or stovetop that isn't running on 240V.
--- End quote ---

stove, noun, "A heater, a closed apparatus to burn fuel for the warming of a room."

Not a great leap to realise he's not talking about your kitchen stove.

--- End quote ---
It never occurred to me to call a portable heater a stove.  Most of the portable heaters (also called space heaters) I have seen are on the order of 1.5 kW or about 12.5 Amps.  That is slightly more than a 15A breaker wants to provide on a full time basis.

Some come with 'tilt' switches to shut them down when they are turned over.

As to 'stove':
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stove


--- Quote ---Definition of stove (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: a portable or fixed apparatus that burns fuel or uses electricity to provide heat (as for cooking or heating)
b: a device that generates heat for special purposes (as for heating tools or heating air for a hot blast)
c: KILN

--- End quote ---
The stove is sometimes called a range but both terms are used in the US.  The term stovetop (one word) comes up when searching Home Depot:
https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-stovetops/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90a04794ac

james_s:

--- Quote from: themadhippy on June 24, 2020, 09:44:47 pm ---
--- Quote ---In all of North America, the newest utility meters can turn off the power to your house without even going outside the main power station
--- End quote ---
Not just limited to  america,but anywhere were smart meters are installed.However that aint the worst aspect of smart meters,with them the utility providers are now able to measure your  power factor and charge accordingly

--- Quote --- clothes dryer is probably 30A at 240V.
--- End quote ---
7kw to dry yer clothes, aint you guys heard of washing lines

--- End quote ---


I've had a smart meter on my house for the entire 15 years I've lived here, recently it was upgraded to a newer style. In neither case did it have the ability to cut the power remotely, if they want to cut the power they have to either physically yank the meter or disconnect the feed at the distribution transformer. It's possible that US-style smart meters capable of remote cutoff exist but I've never seen one.

Just because the dryer circuit is 30A doesn't mean the dryer draws 30A. 5.5kW is typical of an electric clothes dryer. Clothes lines exist but they are rare here, electricity is cheap in most states, half to one third what it costs in the UK and a large number of residential areas have those horrid HOAs that ban clothes lines among other things. Obviously  urban city dwellers don't really have it as an option either.
james_s:

--- Quote from: rstofer on June 24, 2020, 10:34:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: Monkeh on June 24, 2020, 09:53:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: rstofer on June 24, 2020, 09:43:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: ciccio on June 24, 2020, 03:23:14 pm ---
If you are in the US and  you have an heater in a room, (e-g- an electric stove), it will be powered via a ridicolus plug at 120 V. The plug will overheat and a fire will start, in the standard US home built with wood.
When I was in Seattle 20 years ago, I noticed a lot of firetrucks passing by, a lot more than was usual in Europe.
My US friend said: it's normal, Christmas is coming...

--- End quote ---

That is just wrong!  I can't even imagine an oven or stovetop that isn't running on 240V.
--- End quote ---

stove, noun, "A heater, a closed apparatus to burn fuel for the warming of a room."

Not a great leap to realise he's not talking about your kitchen stove.

--- End quote ---
It never occurred to me to call a portable heater a stove.  Most of the portable heaters (also called space heaters) I have seen are on the order of 1.5 kW or about 12.5 Amps.  That is slightly more than a 15A breaker wants to provide on a full time basis.

Some come with 'tilt' switches to shut them down when they are turned over.

As to 'stove':
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stove


--- Quote ---Definition of stove (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: a portable or fixed apparatus that burns fuel or uses electricity to provide heat (as for cooking or heating)
b: a device that generates heat for special purposes (as for heating tools or heating air for a hot blast)
c: KILN

--- End quote ---
The stove is sometimes called a range but both terms are used in the US.  The term stovetop (one word) comes up when searching Home Depot:
https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-stovetops/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90a04794ac

--- End quote ---


Ah, English, the US and the UK may both speak a language called "English" but there are substantial differences and context matters.

"Stove" in the USA is a kitchen stove, range, or what the UK would call a "hob". Except when it's not, "stove" also commonly refers to a wood stove which is a sort of fireplace used for heating rooms. You would never hear "stove" used to describe a portable space heater, which I've heard called an "electric fire" in the UK.

I believe the tilt cutout is a mandatory feature of portable heaters in the US, along with a thermal fuse. It was not always but it has been for decades.

I'm consistently surprised at the number of otherwise technical people in other parts of the world who are not aware that US homes have 240V despite the fact that our portable appliances and lighting are 120V.
james_s:

--- Quote from: ciccio on June 24, 2020, 03:08:08 pm ---I'm shocked by the 200 Amps main breaker.  Here in Italy a standard family has a 3.0 to 5.5 kVA contract, which means a 16 or 20  Amp breaker.
The new meters (the ones that allow for remote reading) are programmed for a maximum load of 3.3 kVA continous (in my case, with a 3.0 kVA contract) and it will trip if you drain more than the max for a long time (minutes?).
A contract with larger limits has higher costs.
I understand the US electric supply does not discourage customers from using a lot of energy (as long as they pay the bills), but in Europe a limited amouut of current to the users side allows for better planning of the network.

--- End quote ---


200A 240V is the standard service installed in the USA, I've seen 150 and even as small as 100A service in older houses but not anything built in the last 40 years.

Larger houses often have a 400A service with dual  panels. I've seen very large houses with a 600A service and three panels but that is not common.
engrguy42:
Yeah, it's a bit of a surprise that, especially here in an "EE" forum people are surprised at how the electrical system in the US is configured. Geez, has nobody ever looked at that transformer on the pole in front of the house and wondered why the 3 wires are coming out? And nobody's ever opened up their main panel??

Anyway, it's only been like that freakin' FOREVER, so I guess I can understand the sudden revelation... :-DD

Regarding smart meters, yeah, there are some that can do what's called "DSM" (Demand Side Management) to curtail or shut people off, but as far as I know they haven't yet been widely adopted. Hell, some of us still have the old electromechanical spinning disk meters.

Anyway, the power company can just shut off the line serving your neighborhood anytime it wants, and that's probably by remote control (sending a signal over comm lines to the substation or an automated circuit opening device on the line serving your area), so not much difference. And they do that sometimes when bad stuff happens and have have to shut you off for some reason. Nothing new.
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