There is NO excuse for being uneducated

[Psi]

Education has not really caught up with modern society.

We need to reduce the time spend learning subjects that are less needed in a world with computers and the internet.
That time should be used to educate problem solving and critical thinking.

Simply doing that would solve a lot of issues.

So what would you suggest we throw overboard in this golden age of computers and AI and all? The classics? Shakespeare? What possible relevance could that have to modren life? After all, we have computers!

I didn't say we should throw anything overboard, just reduce things to make room for important skills that are not being taught at all.

Problem solving and critical thinking skills are needed a lot more today than they were 50 years ago because the decisions of a single person now have a lot more power to affect others.
Technology multiplies the reach of a people to affect more things.

[coppice]

Childhood should be a time for personal exploration and making mistakes! 

Risk aversion is a consequence of a highly litigious society.  At some point, people cannot afford the consequences of risk taking.

Consider the school playground.  In my day™ kids would get bruises and the occasional broken bone.  Today, those kids parents would sue the school for millions of dollars, resulting in the school closing the playground and keeping them indoors playing computer games.

Those are two separate, but important, issues. Yes, things have become more litigious, and that affects a lot about the adult world. However, this wouldn't be too destructive without a generation brought up so coddled they have not experienced much of life, and are very unprepared for it. Hearing 20 year olds talking about "the adults" in a non-ironic way shocked me when I first heard it. People like Jonathan Haidt have documented how we have a generation entering the workforce who are years behind on common markers of reaching adulthood, both positive and negative. When did they earn their first pay packet? When did they first apply for a driving licence? When did they have their first alcohol? When did they have their first sex? In earlier life there are other markers of late maturation, like when were they first allowed to go to school on their own? As the number of years in full time education have increased, so we seem to have delayed every aspect of maturing our young.

[Nominal Animal]

Problem solving and critical thinking skills are needed a lot more today than they were 50 years ago

and because of the availability of information but scarcity of vetted information.

We now live in a neverending flood of information.  Instead of just drowning in it, we need to learn how to control its effects on ourselves.  Consciously filtering incoming information –– as opposed to letting your emotions or preconceptions filter it, what is what we intuitively and automatically do do –– is a skill we need to help kids start developing early: the earlier, the better.  Adults, too.

Similarly, searching and looking up information and assessing its veracity is paramount: when you can do that, and know how you yourself learn, there are very few limits left.

The value of practical experience is increasing, because the theoretical knowledge is easier to obtain.  In my opinion, kids should be exposed to all sorts of work, from early on.  Even adults should be encouraged to try different things, maybe a single day doing something completely different.  You do not truly know what kind of work you actually like and prefer, before you try.  Many people will have several careers during their lifetime, too; things just change too fast nowadays for not to.

[Andy Chee]

Many people will have several careers during their lifetime, too; things just change too fast nowadays for not to.

The problem with multiple careers is that some banks and landlords might see that as too unstable to offer loans or rental housing.

[jonpaul]

lack of motivation, too much socila media and videos, bad examples in life.

j

[Halcyon]

Many people will have several careers during their lifetime, too; things just change too fast nowadays for not to.

The problem with multiple careers is that some banks and landlords might see that as too unstable to offer loans or rental housing.

I'm not sure how true that is for banks. In my experience, they typically want your last 3 months worth of payslips and bank statements. I've never been ask about my career history when applying for a mortgage. Rentals might be different, but that's a whole different matter. I haven't rented a place for almost 20 years.

[Analog Kid]

I've never been ask about my career history when applying for a mortgage. Rentals might be different, but that's a whole different matter. I haven't rented a place for almost 20 years.

Heh; where I live, landlords will be happy if you can just hold down a job, period (and aren't a tweaker*).

* a methamphetamine user

[coppice]

Many people will have several careers during their lifetime, too; things just change too fast nowadays for not to.

The problem with multiple careers is that some banks and landlords might see that as too unstable to offer loans or rental housing.

I'm not sure how true that is for banks. In my experience, they typically want your last 3 months worth of payslips and bank statements. I've never been ask about my career history when applying for a mortgage. Rentals might be different, but that's a whole different matter. I haven't rented a place for almost 20 years.

If the banks were interested in your career path, and its prospects, a LOT of people would have trouble getting loans. They just want evidence that you have a stable income right now. They aren't fortune tellers, and as long as there are no clear signs this income won't remain stable, like your job for the last few months has been putting together something that is about to end, they are OK. E.G. I suspect they might not have been happy with a French person's last few months pay slips last spring, when their work was entirely dependent on the 2024 Olympics.

[nigelwright7557]

Learning and qualifications are vital to get a good job.
The qualifications get you on the first rung of the ladder.
Once in a job you can push hard to get on by learning as much as you can in the job.
Even if you don't like the job that much, a year or two in it will give you something for your CV towards a better job later.

[Shock]

The typical curriculum of science, maths, reading/language etc is still essential as it bridges towards higher education. If you skip during high development years or introduce other challenges it has a compounding negative effect.

I'd be fine with life skills taught at an early age. I see many people struggle with basic concepts such as avoiding vices, budgeting/saving, parenting, interviews, respect, critical thinking etc.

[Poroit]

There are always going to be Bludgers in the world who want to blame everyone else for their present station in life.

How do we score are our kids efforts in raising our Grandkids?

Mine rate between 5-8 out of 10 based on:

To much Screen time ....to give the parents a break.
To much junk food....to save cooking time.
Not enough one on one with the kids playing catching ball, football, cricket , park time etc.

But what can I say!

[floobydust]

Why do engineers overlook the fundamentals?
Here's some excuses and I don't see a remedy.  Good luck straightening things out 

[Shock]

I believe floobs my post was about fundamentals, at least in terms of education. But you're right, make sure your boys are in order first, educate second.

[floobydust]

A problem is a common education system that must accommodate both the dim and bright bulbs of society, that bell curve.
The low IQ people get constant fail experiences and their self-esteem suffers, they dislike school. The smart, high IQ people get bored and waste learning opportunities.
Teachers and schools have quotas to meet and somehow pass the herd through the system, despite students being ranked according to a number, their marks. Students with behaviour issues can upset entire classes.

How can you educate within a common system where there is such a huge disparity?

Then, many years later SURPRISE look who is in charge of the engineers, who are the CEO's? Hint: not the bright bulbs 

[hwasti]

Most takes in this thread are arrogant, downright ignorant and offensive.

Most people are looking around and seeing the learning opportunities available to everyone, opportunities that they have taken or would have taken if they were available when they were younger, and thinking that it applies to everyone, or even most people. That is pure bunk.

You are where you are because of others. Your parents. Your extended family. Your environment. Your family's resources. Your family's race. Random people who have entered into your life (teachers, strangers, coworkers, teammate, fellow students...). All of that can be summed up in one word: Luck.

If your parents did not model hard work and encourage you to learn and better yourself, you are SOL. No matter how much money society spends on you, no matter how much free education is available just a click away, you are not going to make use of it because you are neither aware of its value nor have the skills to make use of it.

No matter how much your parents love and encourage you, if they have no resources, food is not a daily thing in your household growing up, your neighborhood is crap, your school has 1 computer for the whole school and teachers that are just biding time to retirement, your principal daily struggle as a kid is not to get wrapped up in a gang or picked up by police just because, you are SOL.

No matter how much your parents encourage you, no matter how many top 5% of society resources they can lavish on you, if you are born with a 75 IQ, you are SOL.

I will not even talk about your health, being born with a disability, a childhood injury...

All the above are life stories of people I personally know.

On the other hand, if your parents, even if that's a poor overworked single mother, can model the value of hard work, encourage education and self-betterment, society provides you opportunity in the form of well-funded schools, free college, free online education, and you are reasonably intelligent and healthy, then and only then, your lack of success is all on you.

Here's the honest truth of my life: The smartest thing I did in my life was choosing who my parents were. They did help me a lot in getting where I am in life, but much more importantly, they gave me the skills and values that allowed me to get where I am.

If you are thinking that "choosing who my parents were" is a ludicrous statement, I completely agree with you. My point is that who my parents were was a matter of luck and nothing else. I was not owed two educated, successful, incredibly intelligent, unbelievably loving, upper middleclass parents who stayed married to each other till their deaths in old age. That I had parents like that is my good fortune and all I have flows from that.

Similarly, the person who has not made it in life despite all that the society has had to offer them, may have had the exact opposite luck. Their failure is just like my success, a matter of luck.