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This electons flowing rubbish
AntiProtonBoy:
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 03, 2021, 01:14:27 pm --- The ONLY thing that travels at the speed of light, is LIGHT.
--- End quote ---
*Puts on The Hat of Pedantry...* That's not quite true either.
The speed of light happens to be an emerging property from the speed of causality in space-time. In other words, there is a constraint on the causal connections that matter and energy experience with everything else around it. For example, if a charged particle is neutralised somehow, its field caused by the charge will collapse at the speed of light, and all other particles nearby will remain unaffected until some time later. Another example, the gravitational effects from merging black holes propagate at the speed of light via gravitational waves, and nearby stellar objects will not observe the oscillating gravitational pull until some time later. Yet another example, an excited electron returns to its ground state in its orbital around an atom, releasing a propagating electromagnetic field, which takes time before it interacts with other matter nearby. These are all examples of causal connections exerted by one object to another, with an upper limit on how quickly such connections are mediated across space and time.
MIS42N:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on March 04, 2021, 12:49:01 am ---
--- Quote from: MIS42N on March 04, 2021, 12:13:02 am --- Ignoring exotic particles, electrons have to be moved at some time for a current to flow. The electron might not be the focus of attention (such as when a stream of protons is created) but it's moving in the background. Conservation of charge says it has to.
--- End quote ---
By that logic and by invoking 'conservation of charge', surely the inverse must also be true? So if there is current in a wire, explain where the proton (or positive charge carrier of your choice) motion is?
--- End quote ---
No. Normally net current is zero. Electrons in a wire are balanced by electrons moving in the opposite direction (in another wire, in earth return, etc).
thermistor-guy:
--- Quote from: Terry Bites on March 02, 2021, 01:28:58 pm ---Thinking of the electron as a particle is another poor analogy. It's a particular disturbance in a system of fields.
Is your anode getting heavier?
--- End quote ---
Electron as a charged particle is a great model, in many circumstances.
There are useful extensions of it, such as small polaron hopping conduction in thermistors, which physicists often use.
But now I know you're trolling. Thanks for the laugh.
GlennSprigg:
--- Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on March 04, 2021, 02:47:22 am ---
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 03, 2021, 01:14:27 pm --- The ONLY thing that travels at the speed of light, is LIGHT.
--- End quote ---
*Puts on The Hat of Pedantry...* That's not quite true either...
etc. etc. (Interesting paragraph though!)
--- End quote ---
And previously 'ejefrey' had said...
--- Quote from: ejeffrey on March 03, 2021, 09:30:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 03, 2021, 01:14:27 pm ---Firstly, of COURSE electrons actually physically flow in conductors, but maybe not in the way 'you' imagine it.
Let's first clear up thoughts of the "Speed of Light". The ONLY thing that travels at the speed of light, is LIGHT.
(And it does that at slightly varying speeds, whether through vacuum/air/diamond etc.! ). This actually has
nothing to do with the apparent 'speed' of Electricity, which is simply the result of a 'knock-on' effect within
the conductor. In say a 'Super-Conductor' situation, this knock-on effect is just a lot quicker!
--- End quote ---
This is also wrong. Speed of light has *everything* to do with the speed of "electricity" (i.e., the speed signal propagation within a circuit). Specifically it is the speed if light in the dielectric surrounding the metal. In normal situations it doesn't depend on the metal properties at all. It's the same in superconductors. This is roughly because it is light: circuit behavior is governed by electric and magnetic fields which propagate at the speed of light. The reason it depends on the speed of light specifically in the dielectric surrounding the conductors is because electric fields and high frequency magnetic fields are nearly zero inside the conductor....
--- End quote ---
Firstly, I am aware I over simplified my statement that the 'only thing at the speed of light, is light'. :phew:
However, I was not branching into the likes of 'Radio-Waves', or 'Magnetic Pulses' etc etc. but was talking about the
real physical flow of actual Electrons, within say a conducting piece of Wire. Now can that be a complex scenario?? YES!
For example, it has been proven/demonstrated/shown & allowed for, that at much higher frequencies, MOST of the said
'current' can be within the 'outer shell' of a so-called solid 'conductor'. And as such, 'Tubes' can be as effective in many
circumstances!! However, that involves actual 'Physics' that is beyond this topic of this discussion! :palm:
Please do not talk about apparent 'charges', or Photons/Positrons etc, and especially NOT about 'Positive-Holes' etc which
has never had any constructive 'reasoning', except to try/(fail!) to simply accept that it is ELECTRONS that move... :palm:
Actual Electrons MOVE along a physical conductor, and in a way like I described, whether people like/understand it or not!
I fail to understand, why that simple process can not be believed/grasped/understood???
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