This is why we should all leave the EU

[Simon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28878432

I mean seriously ? what version of prick dreamed this up ? where did they get their technical background ?

[Yago]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28878432

I mean seriously ? what version of prick dreamed this up ? where did they get their technical background ?

This bit made me wonder:
"No models made by Dyson are affected, as all the motors on their machines are below 1600w."
How did they come up with that threshold that suits our "national inventor champeen" so well?

[lowimpedance]

And in three years it will be 900W , eventually only a broom will be legal   .
Don't worry this will spread, so no point in leaving!.

[EEVblog]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28878432

Makes sense.
Because a vacuum cleaner is a device that it typically left on for many hours every day. Oh, wait... 

[tszaboo]

OK, I'm using the vacuum cleaner for about 10 minutes every week. So I'll save about 3.5KWh over a year going from a 2KW to a 1600W. That is about one euro per year.
Totally worth it.

[bookaboo]

1600w is plenty, those henry hoovers are 1200w as it is, then you have all the Dysons plus their clones.
900w might be pushing things a bit though.

[EEVblog]

OK, I'm using the vacuum cleaner for about 10 minutes every week. So I'll save about 3.5KWh over a year going from a 2KW to a 1600W.

Not factoring in that a less powerful unit might potentially not do as good a job, and therefore require to be on for longer...

[XOIIO]

Lol, what's the big deal? It's a vacuum cleaner, they are barely used. Sheesh.

[Simon]

There are various designs and some are better than others. The dust filled test comment is very valid. I wash my filter on my 2KW vacuum cleaner regularly and i notice the difference as it blocks and yes it just takes longer or i waste a whole load of time and power before realizing that it needs cleaning.

This really is not a priority for the EU it's a low usage device. I'm guessing that the math around how much power/air flow is needed to clean "x" amount is pretty constant, there will be little room for manauver. At 900W it will be a waste of time using the unit or they will be so poorly made that they will fail prematurely damaging the environment even more.

The EU should legislate for quality of construction and designed lifespan if they want to cut emmissions. But no, no legislation cares about quality and the amount of stuff landing in landfill.

[DenzilPenberthy]

Err, the sort of prick who thinks energy efficiency in mass-market appliances is a good thing. Presumably Dyson have already put in the effort in this regard which is why their vacuums don't have such powerful motors in.

If you want to be nationalistic about it, this is a good thing because it makes Dyson more competitive.

Are you going to go crying to Nigel Farage about how you can't go and buy a new traction engine because it won't meet Euro 6 emissions regs or you can't cook toast on your bedside lamp?

[tszaboo]

OK, I'm using the vacuum cleaner for about 10 minutes every week. So I'll save about 3.5KWh over a year going from a 2KW to a 1600W.

Not factoring in that a less powerful unit might potentially not do as good a job, and therefore require to be on for longer...

And not to mention that the 2KW unit has a slideing potentiometer to make it "eco friendly".

[bookaboo]

The EU should legislate for quality of construction and designed lifespan if they want to cut emmissions. But no, no legislation cares about quality and the amount of stuff landing in landfill.

+1 to this, I'd love to see something like a minimum 3-year warranty on all consumer goods. Start getting things built to last again.

[ctz]

I mean seriously ? what version of prick dreamed this up ? where did they get their technical background ?

the actual docs:

http://ec.europa.eu/smart-regulation/impact/ia_carried_out/docs/ia_2013/swd_2013_0240_en.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/smart-regulation/impact/ia_carried_out/docs/ia_2013/swd_2013_0241_en.pdf (summary of first document)
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32013R0666 (actual law)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2617/contents/made (UK law from adoption of EU regulation)

It seems pretty reasonable and well thought-through to me. It seems intuitively wrong that hoovers across the EU use more power than the whole of Denmark, and produce more emissions than washing machines and dishwashers. This at a time when other household devices have been becoming more efficient (eg computers are drastically more efficient than 15 years ago) hoovers have been getting worse by 2.5% PA.

[Simon]

I'm certainly not a UKIP supporter, they are just headcases that are jumping on a band wagon. I don't have too much obnjection to the principle of the EU but when you stuff like this coming out of it and all of the other pointless crap then clearly it's a waste of our time and money

[DenzilPenberthy]

but when you stuff like this coming out of it

so you've read through all the documents linked to by ctz above then? Or is this based on a Daily Mail headline version of events?

[wagon]

We have a Kirby.  It's about 15years old, still works as well as it did when it was new.  The only repairs it's had are a minor gearbox repair and a lead repair (I ran over and damaged the lead).  Made to last, but not cheap.

[PA0PBZ]

I don't think it is a bad idea to make manufacturers think about their products instead of throwing in some energy hungry monster and call it 'solved'.

[bookaboo]

I mean seriously ? what version of prick dreamed this up ? where did they get their technical background ?

the actual docs:

http://ec.europa.eu/smart-regulation/impact/ia_carried_out/docs/ia_2013/swd_2013_0240_en.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/smart-regulation/impact/ia_carried_out/docs/ia_2013/swd_2013_0241_en.pdf (summary of first document)
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32013R0666 (actual law)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2617/contents/made (UK law from adoption of EU regulation)

It seems pretty reasonable and well thought-through to me. It seems intuitively wrong that hoovers across the EU use more power than the whole of Denmark, and produce more emissions than washing machines and dishwashers. This at a time when other household devices have been becoming more efficient (eg computers are drastically more efficient than 15 years ago) hoovers have been getting worse by 2.5% PA.

From the summary:

2. PROBLEM DEFINITION
The products in scope (hereafter ‘vacuum cleaners’) are dry, domestic and non-domestic
electric vacuum cleaners of all types -- upright, cylinder, stick-- and characteristics, i.e. with
or without bag, active nozzle, etc.. This is the most important category in terms of sales and
environmental impact. Wet, wet&dry, industrial, central, robot and battery driven vacuum
cleaners represent relatively smaller segments with limited environmental impact and are
excluded.
The main ecodesign problem related to vacuum cleaners is the lack of consumer information
on energy use and cleaning performance. As a result, most consumers take the electric power
input (in W) as a proxy for cleaning performance.
Over the past decades this has led to low price, high-power but low-performance vacuum
cleaners, mainly from China, flooding the EU market and more than doubling the societal
energy consumption of this appliance. The vacuum cleaner has now become, from a position of a relatively minor energy-user, a significant contributor to household’s energy consumption
and a candidate for ecodesign measures.
In figures: The power consumption of vacuum cleaners has been rising from 1275 W in 1990
to around 1500 W in 2005 and is expected to reach 2300 W in 2020 (without measures). The
electricity consumption of an average domestic vacuum cleaner (usually operated 1
hour/week) will grow from 60 kWh/year in 1990 to 120 kWh/year in 2020, i.e. an energy
consumption level similar to washing machines and dishwashers. Non-domestic
‘professional’ vacuum cleaners are more efficient (30% less power for a better performance)
but still there is potential for saving.

Sounds like they have a valid case.

[DenzilPenberthy]

 

[22swg]

This is like the regulations to reduce the toilet flush to 6 Ltr of water, now I guess most of us have to flush twice... well done EU. 

[Simon]

Err it's based on the BBC "interpretation" i originally posted. No i have not read those doc's as if I have time. The question is, is the power consumption of vacuum cleaners just been limited ? will this limit be practical ? I'm a very ecological minded person, but i also look at the bigger picture.

[Simon]

Sounds like they have a valid case.

Indeed they do. The cleaning performance of a vacuum has little to do with the watt rating of the motor. The quality of the agitator (the rotating brush in the head, or at least just a static brush) is one of the biggest factors, as is the type and quality of filter. I like that they are trying to measure cleaning power and put that rating on the box, replacing the stupid "moar watts = better" notion. I especially like that they are measuring the amount of dust emitted too, as that varies an awful lot.

I have a robot vacuum cleaner, an LG Hombot Square. It clearly isn't drawing 1800W from it's batteries, yet it does a fantastic job of sucking up dust because it has a very good agitator that really beats it out of the carpet and separates the fibres for a deep clean. Blows older cleaners without agitators away. Almost all high end vacuums have them now, which means they could reduce their suction power considerably without any measurable loss of performance. Once dust is in the air it doesn't need masses of power to suck it up, and if anything that extra energy just makes the filters work harder. Older cleaners had to rely on air alone, but agitators fix that.

Then the rules should be about using agitators, you really think manufacturers use more power just to spend more money on motors ?

[Rufus]

It seems intuitively wrong that hoovers across the EU use more power than the whole of Denmark, and produce more emissions than washing machines and dishwashers.

Denmark is a little country with a population lower than London - your intuition is failing. Heating water to wash things requires a lot of energy. The other point never considered in these bullshit justifications is for half the year heat not produced by a vacuum cleaner will be replaced by central heating systems.

It seems intuitively wrong
This at a time when other household devices have been becoming more efficient (eg computers are drastically more efficient than 15 years ago) hoovers have been getting worse by 2.5% PA.

Power consumption is not a measure of efficiency. Look at their numbers another way and vacuum cleaner usage in the EU consumes 1.27 trillion man hours which is about 256 times more than that available from the entire Danish workforce. What a terrible waste of human life the equivalent of 1.8 million 80 year lifetimes annually.

The efficiency I want from a vacuum cleaner is measured by how long I need to spend using it and an hour of my life is worth a crap load more than a unit of electricity.

Eco green tossers are happy for us to sacrifice our lives on the alter of eco green tosserness. They would prefer us to use brooms.

The EU gave an army of unelected bureaucrats and barely elected politicians the power to make it happen.

[Simon]

Being ecological (green) does not have to be such a problem. It becomes a problem when knee jerk policies are inacted in the name of being green without looking at the overall picture.

My sister bought a nice little 700W vacum cleaner, did not work very well and broke down after 3 months........ is that the EU's idea of saving the planet ? or lining manufacturers, importers and retailers pockets ? 

[GK]

They would prefer us to use brooms.

This is exactly what I do, ever since I ripped out all of my shitty carpet and had floating floor boards installed. Best thing I ever did in the house.