Author Topic: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green  (Read 4733 times)

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Offline paulcaTopic starter

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This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« on: April 10, 2022, 10:07:13 am »
Ye,wha?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-61030903

I swear people are really, honestly starting to believe the nation grid has two big buckets, one full of green energy and one full of fossil fuel energy and that suppliers can pick and choose for you.

Reality 100% of the renewables are already consumed, 100% of the time.  There is no surplus.  So you can't "switch" "to" green energy, the best you can do is tell people when a certain percentage is coming from renewables.  However, if everyone then turns stuff on, that percentage will rapidly fall.... and they will switch off again, exactly what the grid does NOT need!

The concept of proven purchase of "green energy" is not exactly regulated that well.  It can be offset, run negative, get defered etc.  It's probably already corrupt too, knowing the UK regulators.
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2022, 05:48:41 pm »
 :palm:
 

Offline Gregg

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2022, 08:23:48 pm »
I'll just wait until Big Clive gets one of these and takes it apart. 
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Online tom66

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2022, 08:35:01 pm »
The "greenest" thing you can do is to avoid energy in the 4-7pm peak as much as possible.  That would save almost as much emissions as any other behavior.   Yet, it's very rarely promoted.
 
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Offline BreakingOhmsLaw

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2022, 09:04:06 pm »
I've been joking with colleagues for years that we're going to make this exact product and sell it to gullible hipsters.
Seems we were beaten to it 😄
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2022, 09:50:22 pm »
The "greenest" thing you can do is to avoid energy in the 4-7pm peak as much as possible.  That would save almost as much emissions as any other behavior.   Yet, it's very rarely promoted.
Quite a few utilities are charging more for peak time use.
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Online langwadt

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2022, 09:58:11 pm »
most sockets tell you when the power is green, it is usually called "OFF"
 
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Online MK14

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2022, 10:59:11 pm »
How long before new EU/US regulations, mean that everything that connects to or plugs into the mains, has to have such a device fitted. I.e. The Electricity supply organisations, can decide to turn various things (loads), in your own homes, off, e.g. at peak times. With the householders, being unable (legally), to do anything about it.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2022, 11:52:08 pm »
Don't give them ideas. :-DD
 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2022, 12:17:03 am »
Quote
The Electricity supply organisations, can decide to turn various things (loads), in your own homes, off, e.g. at peak times. With the householders, being unable (legally), to do anything about it.
smart meters already give them this capability
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2022, 12:20:00 am »
With the comments in the video, and especially that the device itself consumes tiny amounts of power to even operate, why isn't this topic in the dodgy technology section of the forum?
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2022, 01:17:05 am »
Quote
The Electricity supply organisations, can decide to turn various things (loads), in your own homes, off, e.g. at peak times. With the householders, being unable (legally), to do anything about it.
smart meters already give them this capability

Well no, that gives them control over the entire installation. Which they won't exercise because they would be liable for any injury which could occur as the result of loss of power.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2022, 01:49:04 am »
Quote
The Electricity supply organisations, can decide to turn various things (loads), in your own homes, off, e.g. at peak times. With the householders, being unable (legally), to do anything about it.
smart meters already give them this capability

Well no, that gives them control over the entire installation. Which they won't exercise because they would be liable for any injury which could occur as the result of loss of power.

Hopefully you're right, but that's interesting, as that would mean they would be liable in case of any power loss due to the grid, which does happen occasionally. Are they? Or are they not in this case, just because they can prove it's for instance due to an external factor that's beyond their control? And is it always the case?

That aside, even if they can't do this, that still gives them the opportunity to have a power consumption profile for each installation, and decide to, for instance, change the price, not just depending on fixed hours for everyone, but personalized depending on your own profile entirely - you could for instance be paying a lot more all the time, because your power consumption profile is considered not "green" enough.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. It may just be a matter of a decade until power grids become "smart" enough that every appliance connected to them can be uniquely identified, and then they could definitely decide to deny access to power to some appliance depending on its power rating, hour of day, etc. Fun days ahead. =)
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2022, 02:50:18 am »
Hopefully you're right, but that's interesting, as that would mean they would be liable in case of any power loss due to the grid, which does happen occasionally. Are they? Or are they not in this case, just because they can prove it's for instance due to an external factor that's beyond their control? And is it always the case?

I think the difference between a fault or error and an intentional act is pretty clear.

Quote
That aside, even if they can't do this, that still gives them the opportunity to have a power consumption profile for each installation, and decide to, for instance, change the price, not just depending on fixed hours for everyone, but personalized depending on your own profile entirely - you could for instance be paying a lot more all the time, because your power consumption profile is considered not "green" enough.

Absolutely. Technology remains a double edged sword.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2022, 05:05:12 am »
Quote
The Electricity supply organisations, can decide to turn various things (loads), in your own homes, off, e.g. at peak times. With the householders, being unable (legally), to do anything about it.
smart meters already give them this capability
Well no, that gives them control over the entire installation. Which they won't exercise because they would be liable for any injury which could occur as the result of loss of power.
Never heard of rolling blackouts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout
Its great if you aren't one of the blacked out group! Giving finer grained control is a win, losing your HVAC in winter when its well below freezing is much more serious than losing your refrigerator, or lighting, or plasma TV, or [other nice to have appliance]. Zero HVAC can be an actual threat to life (given how poorly people insulate their houses.... another rant), cold more so than heat, but excess heat is also a threat to life particularly for the old/infirm.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2022, 12:50:08 pm »
Never heard of rolling blackouts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout
Its great if you aren't one of the blacked out group! Giving finer grained control is a win, losing your HVAC in winter when its well below freezing is much more serious than losing your refrigerator, or lighting, or plasma TV, or [other nice to have appliance]. Zero HVAC can be an actual threat to life (given how poorly people insulate their houses.... another rant), cold more so than heat, but excess heat is also a threat to life particularly for the old/infirm.
I would like to see the option for people to get paid to be the first in line to get shut off. Last year, I had the option to get backup power from my car but that went unused because it would cost more than just charging batteries from the grid when it was up.
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Online tom66

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2022, 01:10:55 pm »
It's one of those things, I would love to have true half-hourly variable pricing.  At least 65% of my load can be shifted into the night (car charging, dishwasher, tumble dryer, electric hot-water heater, etc.)    If the price of that can be kept low enough, then daily cost is not that significant, only the power for computers, lights, etc. - about 300W.   I could then add a battery to shift that daily load into the night time period too,  or maybe rely on solar power if I get that installed. 

But this really doesn't favour people who have zero interest in doing this.
 
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Online MK14

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2022, 01:21:47 pm »
It's one of those things, I would love to have true half-hourly variable pricing.

You apparently can (I haven't looked into it in any detail recently, and don't know your precise details, so there could be various snags), here is a link to it:

https://octopus.energy/agile/
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 01:23:47 pm by MK14 »
 

Online tom66

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2022, 01:33:57 pm »
It's one of those things, I would love to have true half-hourly variable pricing.

You apparently can (I haven't looked into it in any detail recently, and don't know your precise details, so there could be various snags), here is a link to it:

https://octopus.energy/agile/

You're right, I forgot about Agile!  And I do already have partially time-of-use pricing via Octopus, where it drops to 5.5p/kWh after 8.30pm until 1.30am.  Would be good to see other providers doing this.
 
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2022, 03:00:49 pm »
Quote
The Electricity supply organisations, can decide to turn various things (loads), in your own homes, off, e.g. at peak times. With the householders, being unable (legally), to do anything about it.
smart meters already give them this capability
Well no, that gives them control over the entire installation. Which they won't exercise because they would be liable for any injury which could occur as the result of loss of power.
Never heard of rolling blackouts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout
Its great if you aren't one of the blacked out group! Giving finer grained control is a win, losing your HVAC in winter when its well below freezing is much more serious than losing your refrigerator, or lighting, or plasma TV, or [other nice to have appliance]. Zero HVAC can be an actual threat to life (given how poorly people insulate their houses.... another rant), cold more so than heat, but excess heat is also a threat to life particularly for the old/infirm.

Those are scheduled. Also, we don't do them.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2022, 05:59:44 pm »
Hopefully you're right, but that's interesting, as that would mean they would be liable in case of any power loss due to the grid, which does happen occasionally. Are they? Or are they not in this case, just because they can prove it's for instance due to an external factor that's beyond their control? And is it always the case?

I think the difference between a fault or error and an intentional act is pretty clear.

If things were that clear and simple, I would probably have not written the above.
Sure if there's an "external factor" as I mentioned, such as some accident, natural catastrophe, etc, no problem.

But have you heard about load shedding, which is being routinely done during peaks of consumption? It absolutely *is* intentional. The fact it's for the "greater good" of the network doesn't change that. Otherwise, shutting down installations individually (when energy companies are already allowed to do it for groups of installations) is merely a tiny step away. All they need is to prove that taking individual measures is for the greater good of the whole grid.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-06/what-is-load-shedding-and-how-does-it-work/11650096
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2022, 06:04:29 pm »
Quote
This new smart socket tells you if it's using more renewable energy. It can also save you money by spotting energy that's being wasted.

Every time I see and hear that word my annoyance levels go up.

I am seeing that word used more and more... smart this smart that  :bullshit:

Anyway two lights isn't going to tell me much about this energy.
It could mean anything without seeing the details.

Sounds to me like a guilt trip they might be pulling on those who buy it and get taken in.

I have a "Current cost meter" with serial port and cables I got second hand many years.

That tells me a figure of what is high and low and I can set the pence per kwh unit if I wanted to and not by some stupid lights that tells me b*gger all like what was on those crap shop brought alien faced battery chargers that I use to see selling 20 years ago.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Current-Cost-ENVI-CC128-Electricity-monitor-White/dp/B002FVJA5I

Don't see the word "SMART" in this listing.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 06:06:36 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2022, 07:42:44 pm »
Hopefully you're right, but that's interesting, as that would mean they would be liable in case of any power loss due to the grid, which does happen occasionally. Are they? Or are they not in this case, just because they can prove it's for instance due to an external factor that's beyond their control? And is it always the case?

I think the difference between a fault or error and an intentional act is pretty clear.

If things were that clear and simple, I would probably have not written the above.
Sure if there's an "external factor" as I mentioned, such as some accident, natural catastrophe, etc, no problem.

But have you heard about load shedding, which is being routinely done during peaks of consumption? It absolutely *is* intentional. The fact it's for the "greater good" of the network doesn't change that. Otherwise, shutting down installations individually (when energy companies are already allowed to do it for groups of installations) is merely a tiny step away. All they need is to prove that taking individual measures is for the greater good of the whole grid.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-06/what-is-load-shedding-and-how-does-it-work/11650096

Again, we don't do that. We have a functional grid.
 
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Online Ground_Loop

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2022, 09:23:29 pm »
I'm curious how much energy is being used to maintain that control center.  Looks like just another intrusive solution looking for a problem.
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Online MK14

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Re: This plug socket tells you if your energy is green
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2022, 09:45:13 pm »
I'm curious how much energy is being used to maintain that control center.  Looks like just another intrusive solution looking for a problem.

Probably not much more, than they are managing to save.
Although stated in jest, I quietly suspect it may indeed be the reality. At their offices/premises, how much does all the lighting, PCs, Servers, Electronics, Air-conditioning, Heating, etc use, compared to the (presumably) modest/slight savings in electricity per socket ?
 


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