I don't like ERSA soldering stations.

[Refrigerator]

What is the deal with ersa stations being so bad? I've used multiple at work so far and every single one sucks. Let me get this straight, i'm basing my expectations off of the cheapest 12 dollar T12 style soldering station with knockoff T12 tips.
But every time i've had to use an I-CON NANO, I-CON PICO or an RDS 80 they left me utterly disappointed. Just now i'm struggling with an RDS80 that just sucks. Plain and simple.
I want to melt solder on a pin that's not even that beefy, but the solder is just barely melting while the power indicator on the station is not even 30% up.
What's the point of all that power when there's a massive air gap between the tip and the heater? I have my temperature set to 430^oC and i'm struggling to melt solder. This is crazy to me. I've tried new tips and the station itself is basically new, because they bought it just before they hired me. And from what i see, this is the expected behavior. Genuine new tips on a genuine new station with a genuine new heater just suck by design.

Here's an example of what i'm doing:
ESAB inverter is blown and i'm trying to desolder the IGBT module. I place my iron with some desoldering wick on a signal pin and it barely melts. After a couple of seconds the desoldering wick is now stuck to the pad because the station cannot keep the solder molten. That's with 430^oC set on the display, which i already consider excessive. Adding leaded solder doesn't even help, which baffles me.

It feels like there's only as much heat as the tip itself can hold and once it's depleted the heating element doesn't really do anything to bring it back.
Not to mention the stupid spring situation that holds the tip on, which is terribly finicky to put back on. And on top of that the stickout makes the iron feel like i'm holding a fishing pole.


And again, why does the 12 dollar soldering station just work? Any time i pick up an ersa station i feel that it's just not as good. Are they all this bad?

[tooki]

I can’t speak to the RDS80 as I’ve never used that model. But I own the icon nano at home, and have used JBC (T245) and Ersa icon 1 and 2 extensively at workplaces, and have also used various Weller, as well as older Pace cartridge systems (TD100). At my current job, when I was allowed to purchase a new soldering station of my choosing, I selected an Ersa icon 2V Mk II, which I have now been using for a good year and a half.

It sounds to me like you’re not getting good heat flow between tip and joint. Are you comparing the stations with the same style and size of tip? A common problem is people using too small a tip.

The icon series tips certainly don’t have a “massive” air gap between heater and tip. The whole reason Ersa has been able to avoid (or delay?) switching to cartridge heater tips is by having close tolerances between heater and tip. It’s not quite as good, but in practice of everyday soldering (of anything that crosses my bench, from tiny SMD to very large connectors and multilayer PCBs), you don’t notice it. What matters is proper tip selection, tip care, and technique.

To be sure, on really heavy joints, there is a difference between the icon nano/pico and the “big” icon stations. But even so, I’d say that proper tip selection makes a much, much larger difference.

430C is an insanely high temperature. I bet you’re using too small tips, then cranking up the temp to compensate, which then causes tip oxidation, which reduces thermal conductivity! (For reference, on Ersa, JBC, and Pace, I usually use around 320-335 for leaded, 330-345 for lead-free. The only exception is when using the extremely fine 0.4 and 0.6mm tips, because thermal conductivity to the working end of such fine tips is terrible, so the working end is always many degrees cooler than the set point. Larger tips don’t have that issue.)

Just yesterday, someone posted the following white paper in another thread. I highly suggest you read it, because you may identify some ways you may have unwittingly sabotaged your soldering performance.

https://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/oki-metcal/extendingTipLife.pdf

[nctnico]

I can’t speak to the RDS80 as I’ve never used that model. But I own the icon nano at home, and have used JBC (T245) and Ersa icon 1 and 2 extensively at workplaces, and have also used various Weller, as well as older Pace cartridge systems (TD100). At my current job, when I was allowed to purchase a new soldering station of my choosing, I selected an Ersa icon 2V Mk II, which I have now been using for a good year and a half.

It sounds to me like you’re not getting good heat flow between tip and joint. Are you comparing the stations with the same style and size of tip? A common problem is people using too small a tip.

The icon series tips certainly don’t have a “massive” air gap between heater and tip. The whole reason Ersa has been able to avoid (or delay?) switching to cartridge heater tips is by having close tolerances between heater and tip. It’s not quite as good, but in practice of everyday soldering (of anything that crosses my bench, from tiny SMD to very large connectors and multilayer PCBs), you don’t notice it. What matters is proper tip selection, tip care, and technique.

I agree. Tip too small and the temperature set way too high. I'm using the RDS-80 with the 'basic tool' hand piece set at 330 degrees for soldering jobs. I do have a wide variety of tips though including really big ones.

[Refrigerator]

It sounds to me like you’re not getting good heat flow between tip and joint. Are you comparing the stations with the same style and size of tip? A common problem is people using too small a tip.

I have an ersa 842CD2.2, which is massive and it performs just about the same as my 832KD2.2.
The bigger tip has more thermal mass, but after that thermal mass is depleted of heat there's very little response form the actual station.
I can hold my tip on a pad and watch it barely melt it while simultaneously seeing that the station is only giving me up to 30% of power.
Am i asking too much of this station to just work?

The icon series tips certainly don’t have a “massive” air gap between heater and tip. The whole reason Ersa has been able to avoid (or delay?) switching to cartridge heater tips is by having close tolerances between heater and tip. It’s not quite as good, but in practice of everyday soldering (of anything that crosses my bench, from tiny SMD to very large connectors and multilayer PCBs), you don’t notice it. What matters is proper tip selection, tip care, and technique.

To be sure, on really heavy joints, there is a difference between the icon nano/pico and the “big” icon stations. But even so, I’d say that proper tip selection makes a much, much larger difference.

I mean if it wiggles, i consider the air gap as massive and it does wiggle. A power pin on a 4 layer board is impossible even with the 842CD2.2 tip even though the pins have thermal relief.

Just yesterday, someone posted the following white paper in another thread. I highly suggest you read it, because you may identify some ways you may have unwittingly sabotaged your soldering performance.
https://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/oki-metcal/extendingTipLife.pdf

I clean and tin my tip before soldering. When i try to melt solder only the surface layer of the solder melts (approx 0.5mm deep) but the heat is not there no matter how long i hold the iron on the pin. I consider this performance abysmal.
And to reiterate, the power meter on the display is never above 30%.

My takeaway is that the thermal conductivity between the tip and the heater is terrible.

[Ice-Tea]

Got an RDS-80 as well.

Hate it.

Setting the heat up to 350C. Surpasses 320C on the display. Doesn't melt. Leaded solder. After that, temp seems low all the time.

I find myself using a Miniware. The RDS-80 sits in a box somewhere.

[SiliconWizard]

Never used a RDS-80 but I have a now old Ersa Micro-con 60 iA which still works reasonably well.
I prefer my JBC with T210 and T245 handles, but the Ersa used to do a decent job.

Certainly one big potential problem is using inadequate tips for the job. I haven't looked at the recent offering for Ersa tips, but it looks like JBC has a much wider choice of tips, and tips with integrated heater tend to work a lot better. JBC tips are like that, T12 tips as well if I'm not mistaken. Ersa tips, at least the ones I've worked with, were not. It was a more conventional approach with a ceramic heater. That never quite works as well.

[tooki]

It sounds to me like you’re not getting good heat flow between tip and joint. Are you comparing the stations with the same style and size of tip? A common problem is people using too small a tip.

I have an ersa 842CD2.2, which is massive and it performs just about the same as my 832KD2.2.
The bigger tip has more thermal mass, but after that thermal mass is depleted of heat there's very little response form the actual station.
I can hold my tip on a pad and watch it barely melt it while simultaneously seeing that the station is only giving me up to 30% of power.
Am i asking too much of this station to just work?

Those are RDS80 tips. As I said, I cannot really comment on the RDS80 because I've never used it. Everything I said was about the icon series. I have no idea how the RDS80 is supposed to behave or not. The performance you describe isn't good, but I can't say whether it's normal or not.

The icon series tips certainly don’t have a “massive” air gap between heater and tip. The whole reason Ersa has been able to avoid (or delay?) switching to cartridge heater tips is by having close tolerances between heater and tip. It’s not quite as good, but in practice of everyday soldering (of anything that crosses my bench, from tiny SMD to very large connectors and multilayer PCBs), you don’t notice it. What matters is proper tip selection, tip care, and technique.

To be sure, on really heavy joints, there is a difference between the icon nano/pico and the “big” icon stations. But even so, I’d say that proper tip selection makes a much, much larger difference.

I mean if it wiggles, i consider the air gap as massive and it does wiggle. A power pin on a 4 layer board is impossible even with the 842CD2.2 tip even though the pins have thermal relief.

Again, I cannot comment on the RDS80 because I've never used it. Everything I said was about the icon series. The icon series tips basically don't wiggle when mounted: the amount of play is so small I'd need to use a dial indicator to figure out much it is.

I thought you said you'd also used the icon nano and pico, and that they performed the same as the RDS80. I find that a bit hard to believe.

Just yesterday, someone posted the following white paper in another thread. I highly suggest you read it, because you may identify some ways you may have unwittingly sabotaged your soldering performance.
https://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/oki-metcal/extendingTipLife.pdf

I clean and tin my tip before soldering.

That's not the only bit of information in that white paper. Did you actually read it?

When i try to melt solder only the surface layer of the solder melts (approx 0.5mm deep) but the heat is not there no matter how long i hold the iron on the pin. I consider this performance abysmal.
And to reiterate, the power meter on the display is never above 30%.

My takeaway is that the thermal conductivity between the tip and the heater is terrible.

It sure seems like it. But again, I don't know how that model should perform, or whether yours is damaged, for example.

[tooki]

Got an RDS-80 as well.

Hate it.

Setting the heat up to 350C. Surpasses 320C on the display. Doesn't melt. Leaded solder. After that, temp seems low all the time.

Huh, what? I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

[tooki]

Certainly one big potential problem is using inadequate tips for the job. I haven't looked at the recent offering for Ersa tips, but it looks like JBC has a much wider choice of tips, and tips with integrated heater tend to work a lot better.

JBC's tip selection is unparalleled. But they're also $$$, aren't as durable as Ersa's, and availability of the exotic tips is not great. (I.e. distributors won't have the exotic ones in stock.) Inexpensive tips is one reason I chose Ersa.

JBC tips are like that, T12 tips as well if I'm not mistaken.

JBC, various Hakko, various Pace, various Weller, and many others are cartridge heater systems.

Ersa tips, at least the ones I've worked with, were not. It was a more conventional approach with a ceramic heater. That never quite works as well.

Ersa has so far not moved to cartridge heater tips. The older models used ceramic heaters. The iCon series (all new models since 2007) use separate tips, but not a ceramic heater. They use a 150W-rated metal-sheathed heater, run at either 120W ("big" iCon models) or 80W (nano and pico). The heater sheath is precision made, as are the tips. The tips have extremely little play. So they're not cartridge heater systems, but they're not classic irons, either.

A JBC tip heats from ambient to 330C in about 4-5 secs (with initial overshoot to about 370C). An Ersa iCon does it in 9 secs (at medium power setting, initially overshooting to around 360). In practice in actual soldering, you can't tell the difference. They both perform admirably. As I said, they handle everything I throw at them.

[nctnico]

It sounds to me like you’re not getting good heat flow between tip and joint. Are you comparing the stations with the same style and size of tip? A common problem is people using too small a tip.

I have an ersa 842CD2.2, which is massive and it performs just about the same as my 832KD2.2.

These tips are too small for through hole. Get 3mm or 4mm wide tips for through hole components. Especially the long pointed 832KD has a poor heat transfer because it is long and thin. Nice for making a solder joint in a tight space though.

[thm_w]

842CD2.2 is a massive hunk of metal. That may be good or bad, hard to know (for metcal stations is not a good thing).
832KD2.2 is definitely going to have poor performance as it has a long thin section which will form a large temperature gradient, as nctnico says.

Best performing tips will be stubby, something like 832vd/sb?

[Ice-Tea]

Got an RDS-80 as well.

Hate it.

Setting the heat up to 350C. Surpasses 320C on the display. Doesn't melt. Leaded solder. After that, temp seems low all the time.

Huh, what? I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

- turn station on
- set temp to 350C
- when temp display goes well above 300C, touch tip with leaded solder.
- watch it not melt.

[Refrigerator]

Got an RDS-80 as well.

Hate it.

Setting the heat up to 350C. Surpasses 320C on the display. Doesn't melt. Leaded solder. After that, temp seems low all the time.

Huh, what? I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

- turn station on
- set temp to 350C
- when temp display goes well above 300C, touch tip with leaded solder.
- watch it not melt.

I get the same with my RDS80. The temperature on the display doesn't represent the actual temperature at the tip at all.
I've actually gotten used to just turning it on and walking away for a few minutes, the same way i used to do with a regular corded iron.

It sounds to me like you’re not getting good heat flow between tip and joint. Are you comparing the stations with the same style and size of tip? A common problem is people using too small a tip.

I have an ersa 842CD2.2, which is massive and it performs just about the same as my 832KD2.2.

These tips are too small for through hole. Get 3mm or 4mm wide tips for through hole components. Especially the long pointed 832KD has a poor heat transfer because it is long and thin. Nice for making a solder joint in a tight space though.

Yeah i bought a set of long tips for tight spaces and small pins because the behemoth that is the 842CD2.2 doesn't fit anywhere. But i don't think the size of the chisel is the problem. The 2.2 chisel is already as big as the pad i was trying to melt and if i wanted to cover a larger area i would just use the broad side of the 2.2 chisel, the same way i've been doing for the last 15 years.

[nctnico]

Got an RDS-80 as well.

Hate it.

Setting the heat up to 350C. Surpasses 320C on the display. Doesn't melt. Leaded solder. After that, temp seems low all the time.

Huh, what? I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

- turn station on
- set temp to 350C
- when temp display goes well above 300C, touch tip with leaded solder.
- watch it not melt.

That is logical because the temperature sensor is not in the tip itself. You need to give it some time for the tip to heat up as well.

[thm_w]

Yeah i bought a set of long tips for tight spaces and small pins because the behemoth that is the 842CD2.2 doesn't fit anywhere. But i don't think the size of the chisel is the problem. The 2.2 chisel is already as big as the pad i was trying to melt and if i wanted to cover a larger area i would just use the broad side of the 2.2 chisel, the same way i've been doing for the last 15 years.

Sounds like the wrong tool for the job.
Look at something like JBC T115/T210 or hakko fx1001, for a small handpiece and thin cartridge.

[Someone]

Yeah i bought a set of long tips for tight spaces and small pins because the behemoth that is the 842CD2.2 doesn't fit anywhere. But i don't think the size of the chisel is the problem. The 2.2 chisel is already as big as the pad i was trying to melt and if i wanted to cover a larger area i would just use the broad side of the 2.2 chisel, the same way i've been doing for the last 15 years.

Sounds like the wrong tool for the job.
Look at something like JBC T115/T210 or hakko fx1001, for a small handpiece and thin cartridge.

Time to buy a Metcal.... /ducks
ha ha ha

[tooki]

Got an RDS-80 as well.

Hate it.

Setting the heat up to 350C. Surpasses 320C on the display. Doesn't melt. Leaded solder. After that, temp seems low all the time.

Huh, what? I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

- turn station on
- set temp to 350C
- when temp display goes well above 300C, touch tip with leaded solder.
- watch it not melt.

Thanks for the clarification. If you give it more time, does the solder eventually melt?

[Ice-Tea]

Yes, but I continuously get the impression the temperature is way lower than reported.

And before folks tell me what I'm doing wrong: I'm sure up to a point this is user error but I don't care. If you have to jump through hoops to get to work well and have to rub it with with a nekid forrest elf twice a week to keep it going I'm not interested.

As a reference: I have an ancient weller I use from time to time. The has an actual, physical hole in the tip from all the abuse. Works about 2000% better than the Ersa.

[Refrigerator]

Yes, but I continuously get the impression the temperature is way lower than reported.

And before folks tell me what I'm doing wrong: I'm sure up to a point this is user error but I don't care. If you have to jump through hoops to get to work well and have to rub it with with a nekid forrest elf twice a week to keep it going I'm not interested.

As a reference: I have an ancient weller I use from time to time. The has an actual, physical hole in the tip from all the abuse. Works about 2000% better than the Ersa.

I feel like if i brought my WECP-20 from the grave it would work better than the ersa i'm using right now.
Way back when i first got it, it felt like a lightsaber compared to the Hakko 936 clone i was using at the time.

[madires]

When the component or PCB sucks away too much heat you'll need an iron with more watts and a larger tip in case the iron isn't broken, e.g. bad tip, bad heating element. From my experience, an i-Tool iron (powered by i-CON2) is sufficient to deal with ground planes even with a too small tip and without increasing the temperature (my default setting is 320 - 330 °C). Also no issues with soldering large plugs, using a larger tip.

[tooki]

I feel like if i brought my WECP-20 from the grave it would work better than the ersa i'm using right now.
Way back when i first got it, it felt like a lightsaber compared to the Hakko 936 clone i was using at the time.

I think you need to separate the RDS80 from the icon nano/pico. You mentioned the icon stations in the original post, but everything after has been only about the RDS80.

So what about the icon nano/pico? Their performance should be a day and night difference from what how describe the RDS80.

[thm_w]

Yes, but I continuously get the impression the temperature is way lower than reported.

If you have a thermocouple around you can test it on that, its just a lot easier with these dedicated units: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007289184795.html

Apply a lot of solder and press onto the bead.

[snoopy]

I believe SDG found the same issue with this iron as it uses the older style separate tip and heater technology.

[watchmaker]

I have the Icon 2 and tips from the bent point to large chisels.  I very seldom remove the bent tip even when soldering a large EC can to a chassis.  And I very seldom take it above 350 degrees.  I point out I do use silver bearing solder. 

I found that when I have problems with solder wick (either chemtronics or hexacon) a wipe on the sponge and in the "brillo" pad is all I need to do. 

I try to keep it at 330 and when I need more heat to desolder something, I just add flux.

Are the tips screwed down tightly?  Are they still showing "silver"?  I am not an industrial user, but I have not expereinced such problems.