Time dilation and the conservation of energy law, A thought experiment to ponder

[GeoffreyF]

This one is easy. Red shift means length of light pulse is stretched. Energy of original pulse is still there, just you need slightly longer time to gather it (back).

it's not so clean from your description, how do you plan to transfer DC voltage across the space?

Where did you get DC voltage from? I was answering to post which talked about "beam of photons carrying a certain amount of energy". Ever heard of PV cells?

Why yes I have.  Now I am REALLY wondering if you know what energy is.  Instead of asking me to define things or whether I have heard of things - Explain why the Original Post is worthy of your respect, using this knowledge you think you have.   "A beam of photons carrying a certain amount of energy" - Certain?  Certain of what?  Since your brought up PV cells - perhaps as you explain the worth of the post, you can share with us your knowledge of the Shockley-Queiser limit as that applies to solar cells.  We can drop the question of frame of reference as that applies to time dilation and see if you can calculate how this beam will be converted to usable watts - above and beyond a PV cell on the earth.  GOOD LUCK! 

Moral of this silliness is USE MATH FROM BOOKS.   You never did Ogden.   But do go on, uselessly but really hilariously.   The guy wanted pondering - he got more pondering that he ever did!

[radiolistener]

Are you saying that the DC voltage across the load will be less than the DC voltage source?

If you can not show how gravitational redshifting can decrease the voltage  across the load, and therefore introduce an impedance, I believe you would be incorrect.

Where did you get DC voltage from?

Original question of sourcecharge was about DC voltage from the battery on the satellite.

I was answering to post which talked about "beam of photons carrying a certain amount of energy". Ever heard of PV cells?

Photon is not related to DC. This is a minimum piece of energy in the electromagnetic wave.
Time dilation looks like stretching electromagnetic wave in the space.
The total energy of the wave will not be changed.
You will receive lower frequency, but longer transmission duration.
So, if you sum all energy in the transmission, the total energy of the wave will not be changed

When you will try to transfer DC voltage across the space, you will discover that your DC voltage will turn into AC wave in the cable. After that, just stretch this wave according to the time dilation and you will see that the total energy will not be changed 

[ebastler]

The guy wanted pondering - he got more pondering that he ever did!

It seems that the original poster has left the building (or at least this thread).
A wise decision, I'd say.

[ogden]

I was answering to post which talked about "beam of photons carrying a certain amount of energy". Ever heard of PV cells?

Photon is not related to DC. This is a minimum piece of energy in the electromagnetic wave.
Time dilation looks like stretching electromagnetic wave in the space.
The total energy of the wave will not be changed.
You will receive lower frequency, but longer transmission duration.
So, if you sum all energy in the transmission, the total energy of the wave will not be changed

LOL You must be kidding. Here's original question and my answer you effectively just re-typed:

There is a beam of photons at certain wavelength, carrying a certain amount of energy. After travelling a long distance, due to expansion of the universe, the beam will become redshifted, so the energy carried by the beam will be lower. Where did this energy go?

This one is easy. Red shift means length of light pulse is stretched. Energy of original pulse is still there, just you need slightly longer time to gather it (back).

[radiolistener]

LOL You must be kidding. Here's original question and my answer you effectively just re-typed:

As I understand sourcecharge agreed with you, but didn't understand how it can be applied for DC voltage.
This is why I asked him "how do you plan to transfer DC voltage across the space?" 

For example, sourcecharge wrote:

This makes sence.  What I don't get though is with my own example that DC voltage does not have a wavelength.  Therefore, it CAN'T be redshifted.

So, I tried to explain him how DC voltage will turn into AC wave during this transfer

[GeoffreyF]

LOL You must be kidding. Here's original question and my answer you effectively just re-typed:

No body is kidding.  "LOL" does not mean you are serious.  The OP and your crap is bullshit.  You don't like it, make sense out of it as if you know what you are writing about.  Obviously you can't and so you deal with it all at  an emotional and rather silly level.  This is an ENGINEERING FORUM.  Write like you want to learn it or that you know it.

[GlennSprigg]

Wow... I mean, Wow...  I'm just sitting on the 'fence' here, and I'm amazed at the the attacks..
The 'OP' stated it was a 'Thought To Ponder', not a statement of a 'known' fact ?
Questions as such can be discussed logically/theoretically, or ignored. But why all the 2-way vehemence ?
Especially some of the 'latter'  comments about being 'inappropriate' for an 'Engineering'(?) Forum ?
This 'eevblog' forum covers MANY topics/fields, but THIS one is under General Chat...
I never thought that "What Did You Buy Today", or "Show Us A Picture Of Your Cat" was 'Engineering' 
Yet they are 2 of the most viewed/commented on posts here !!!   
Put all Dummies/Pacifiers back in the box, and share fun toys in the SandPit 

[GlennSprigg]

My thoughts on Time-Dilation......

The bartender says, “We don’t serve time travelers in here.”
A time traveler walks into a bar.

Speaking of Bars....

A dung beetle walks into a bar and says, “Excuse me, is this stool taken?”

A German walks into a bar and asks for a martini. The bartender asks, “Dry?”
The German replies, “Nein, just one danke”

A horse walks into a Bar. The Barman says...
"So why the long face!"

[GlennSprigg]

John Wayne rides up to a Bar, ties his horse up to the hitching post, walks around to
the back of the horse, lifts it's tail and plants a juicy kiss right on it's asshole...

An old-timer sitting out the front, observes this, as asked why the hell he did that?
John Wayne said... "It's on account of my sore/cracked LIPS" !!!

The old-timer said... "Oh, does that fix the problem" ?
John Wayne said... "NOPE, but it sure stops me licking them !!!"

[MyEEVBlogAccount]

You end up with the same amount of energy.  Rather than thinking about it as a continuous activity, it is easier to think of it as pulses with a short length.  But here are some numbers to illustrate.  The satellite is far enough away that the clock is twice as slow.  From the reference frame of the satellite, it sends out 4 second pulses at 1 Volt of 3 Coulombs per second.

At the satellite the energy looks like, 4s * 1V * 3Cps == 12J
On the ground the energy looks like, 8s * 1V * 1.5Cps == 12J

Think of it this way, the number of electrons flying down the wire is unchanged, but the pulse is longer.  Therefore, the rate of the electrons must be lower, but this is balanced out by the pulse being longer.  Ergo, the energy is conserved.  There is more time to do work, but the work is proportionally lower too.  It is similar with a continuous calculation as well, where you can think of it as an infinite number of infinitesimally small pulses; it is just that they are different sizes of infinities.  This stuff can get confusing fast, especially because we are used to things like simultaneity holding, which it doesn't when you are dealing with relativity.