Author Topic: Time Travel: some thoughts  (Read 3731 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2022, 08:11:58 pm »
wait.. what ? are you telling me none of you visit the annual time travellers conference ?
You're in luck ! Registration opens tomorrow. It will be held 23/24 February of this year.

I already attended that one.   

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2022, 08:19:38 pm »
I worked on a system where we used a bucket brigade delay line to store our analog data long enough that we could then bring it back into phase with the present data to subtract it out.  With the time traveling wave, we no longer have to store the delayed signal but rather can work with the live data before it happens.   I am working on a patent now for my new noise cancellation system based on this technique.   We not only plan to apply it to audio but for fully active suspension.   I'm also working on a similar project for collision avoidance.    Now days, taking on several long term projects like these is no big deal.   

I heard MS is working on a new schedule system to replace MS Project to handle it.   

Offline free_electron

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2022, 09:56:38 pm »
I worked on a system where we used a bucket brigade delay line to store our analog data long enough that we could then bring it back into phase with the present data to subtract it out.  With the time traveling wave, we no longer have to store the delayed signal but rather can work with the live data before it happens.   I am working on a patent now for my new noise cancellation system based on this technique.   We not only plan to apply it to audio but for fully active suspension.   I'm also working on a similar project for collision avoidance.    Now days, taking on several long term projects like these is no big deal.   

I heard MS is working on a new schedule system to replace MS Project to handle it.
you could make a data compression system with this. compress everything down to 1 bit. then replay the compression backwards in time to get the original data...
kind of like this.
phase 1 compress adjacent numbers
3+4 +5 +6 :  7 + 11
repeat:
18
phase 2 : compress adjacent digits
9
phase 3 convert to binary and do the same based of bits
1001 ->11
11 ->1

done.

not that you cannot skip steps and simply  go "1".. you need to go backwards in time to expand.
1 -> 11 -> 1001 ->9 -> 18 ->7 11 -> 3 4 5 6

try it. if you film yourself while doing this and then play in reverse you will see the algorithm works !
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2022, 11:29:03 pm »
As long as we can go forward and backwards, time itself is the compression and storage. 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2022, 01:40:57 am »
I don't know for sure about going backwards, but we all eventually end up getting compressed in some way.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2022, 03:04:40 am »
I don't know for sure about going backwards, but we all eventually end up getting compressed in some way.
many people can be replaced by very small scripts.. some so small the compiler optimizes them away completely.
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2022, 10:56:00 pm »
I have reservations about participating in this discussion.  This is more about philosophy than electronics, but it is a discussion that promotes understanding and interest of science and technology.  I will share some thoughts.  This is a mind twister to write, I hope it is as interesting to read as it is to write.

1. Space Time vs Space and Time

McFry looks at time travel as rather like spatial travel.  You can go back to 1955 and then return to 1985 as if you can go to Boston for dinner then head back to New York.  They treat the past as if it is a place and that it still exists.

Now let say you can indeed travel in an enclosed machine in your basement and you go back exactly one day.  You will not find yourself in your basement one day back - Earth is not in the same place as it was one day ago.  You will find yourself in that machine alone, in space, with Earth at a distance about 1.6 million miles away as Earth orbits the Sun.  If you travel further back in time, you will find yourself closer to other stars than to our Sun.

You can receive information from the past - if you travel faster than light away from earth to about 50 light years, you could receive TV broadcast of the Apollo 11 launch and the first moon-landing.  But the world of 1969 no longer exists today.  World of 1969 is not a place you can go to, not any more.  It doesn't exist any more.  The world of 2069 is yet to be, so there is no there to go.  I will however attempt to contradict myself later.

2.  Rewinding the clock or fast-forward the clock

How would one control every single particles in the universe to modify their time vector?

3. Wormholes, the most promising

This is one theory yet to be debunked by Science in-so-far as I know.  Reading published scientific paper is a rare event for me so I could be wrong here.  You can in theory create a wormhole with one end anchored to the north pole of the Moon and the other end at the south pole of the moon of different time.  In theory, you can also find wormholes elsewhere connecting some other spatial locations and some other times,

Current theory is, there must be something to prevent the "Grand Father Paradox".  But who knows if that is indeed the case, or not.

Note that current theory is, you can't go back father than the creation time of the wormhole -- that is if you can indeed travel through a wormhole without it collapsing.  That said, wormholes is the most viable way of time travel (viable as in not yet debunked).  Again, I could be out of date with my knowledge here.

4. Trying to contradict myself.

Let say you have a chess board with three chess pieces only, one Bishop, one Knight, and one Queen, and you randomly put the three chess pieces onto your chess board squares.  Lets also say everyone on Earth will do the same thing.  Will you find your placement position of Bishop, Knight, and the Queen on one of the other 8 billion chess boards done by others?  Possibly so!

If you limit the chess board's size to 3 squares by 3 squares (9 spots) and again 8 billion people on earth each doing the same random placement of 3 pieces on 9 spots on their chess boards.  Statistically, it is a near-certainty that you will find the exact same placement of the 3 chess pieces as yours on one of those 8 billion chess board done by others.

As space expands, star that was visible to us reduce because those stars are so far away.  With so much space between us and those stars, they are receding from us faster than the speed of light - they are beyond our cosmic horizon.  We will never see them, ever.  Let's call what is within our cosmic horizon our local universe for short.  What happen within our local universe can not affect elsewhere, and what happen elsewhere cannot affect our local universe.

There is a limited number of particles within our local universe.  A very big number but limited none the less.  I'll call that P for now.  Light and Forces are particles as well, so they are included in P.  For that matter, you can add the particles property and count each property into P so P is all inclusive of particles and its properties.    So our local universe has P particles and P is a very big number but not infinite.

If the entire universe is sufficiently large, it can have many local universes, lets call that N.  N is the number of local universes out there.

Now you know where I am going.   While the permutation of P is huge, if N is sufficiently large, one will statistically find every permutation of P within one of the N's.  So if the universe is sufficiently large, every single arrangement of a local universe should exist.  So, you may well find a local universe arranged exactly as 1955 Earth would have it!  So, indeed, if the universe is sufficiently large, we could have every moment of our local universe represented on some other local universe!

Well, even if it is out there on another local universe, how do you find it and get there is another matter.

---------------------------------
EDIT: Per Eugene's suggestion/request, added one that omitted at first, click link below.

...
3a. Time travel by time dilation
...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 01:08:15 am by Rick Law »
 

Offline eugene

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2022, 01:13:42 am »
You left out the only example of time travel that was predicted by physics more than 100 years ogo, and was actually demonstrated experimentally 50 years ago! Where have you guys been? I think I'll call each of you Rip Van Winkle from now on.

The dilation of time according to Einstein's Relativity was shown in the Hafele–Keating experiment in 1971. They sent two cesium-beam atomic clocks 275 nanoseconds into the future. Well, it was the future as far as the clocks were concerned, and it shows that anyone, including you, can go on a similar journey through time simply by flying around the world in an airplane.
90% of quoted statistics are fictional
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2022, 01:32:43 am »
Time dilation is not time travel as the term time travel is commonly used.  You are moving forward in time, just at difference pace, and there is no possibility of returning to the "start time".

Heck, you don't even need an airplane.  Just be near something massive (like a pyramid), the added gravity would change the rate of your clock.
 

Offline eugene

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2022, 04:37:17 am »
I get that. I'm just surprised that it didn't make the list of things to think about. It's the only thing with any basis at all in science that suggests time travel in any form might be possible.
90% of quoted statistics are fictional
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2022, 01:34:52 pm »
Some recent news about replacing cesium-beam clocks with another process at an ever higher frequency mentioned that the slight difference in frequency between several cesium clocks at NIST in Colorado were due to different altitudes of the systems.
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2022, 12:47:21 am »
Our universe, all that is in it, is just an infinitely small disturbance in the nothingness, a singularity.

I don't see how our universe can be infinite when we know to high precision how old it is.  It's very likely that our universe is one among countless.  Also likely that our universe was created by a black hole in another universe...The Big Bang *was* a singularity and a black hole *contains* a singularity.

As far as I know, time travel is not possible because it violates entropy.  Time moves in one direction only.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2022, 12:58:05 am »
While "traveling backwards", as in being physically present at some point in the past while being in the present, is a contradiction in itself and can probably only be solved through some kind of metaphysics, observing the past is almost trivial. When you look at someone 1m away from you, what you see of them is already 3.33ns in the past. :horse:
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Time Travel: some thoughts
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2022, 12:58:40 am »
I get that. I'm just surprised that it didn't make the list of things to think about. It's the only thing with any basis at all in science that suggests time travel in any form might be possible.

You are right, I should include that - I omitted it because of my own bias.  For one reason or another, somehow, I just consider Tachyon (complex mass) too far a stretch.

So, per request, here is my thought on it

3a. Time travel by time dilation

Per Einstein's relativity, we know and have confirmed that we each have our own personal clock.  My one second is not the same as your one second.  If I travel fast enough, one second for me could be 2 seconds or even years for the rest of the people on Earth.  This is a way to time travel to the future Earth - get into a space craft and accelerate to incredible speed to return to Earth with your time being an hour later but Earth time being a years later.  It is quite possible in theory, but I don't know of any practical way to accelerate anything other than elementary particles to a speed for meaningful time travel (meaningful as in 1 second for you but wrist watch measurable > 1 second for others). 
 
Interesting note:  Current theory is light speed (c) is the universe's speed limit.  There is actually a complication here that is important to point out.  Say the plan route is just a bit (say 1km) under 2 light seconds away.  On Earth, the observer saw me cover that 2 light second (minus 1km) distance in 2 seconds.  Earth observers saw me traveled almost two light seconds in 2 seconds and traveled at speed below c.  All Laws of Physics are obeyed and all is well.  I am the traveler and my clock ran slow, so I could cover that Earth-observer measured 2 light seconds (-1km) in my 1 second.  It would seem I observed myself traveled almost 2x light speed and broke the Laws of Physics.  Not so.  From my traveling frame of reference, Relativity say distances in my direction of travel is compressed accordingly.  My observations is actually myself traveled the distance of 1 light second (minus 0.5km) in 1 second, almost at light speed but not 2x light speed.
 
Current theory say only objects with zero mass can travel as the speed of light (c).  We have mass, and in fact our mass increase as our speed increase.  The closer we approach light speed, the closer our mass increased to near infinity.  So we can't get near light speed with conventional means.  If we could travel at light speed, our clock will stop relative to the rest of the folks on Earth.  We can go anywhere and since our clock doesn't move, we got there instantly.

Interesting note:  For a photon and photons always move at light speed, the moment of it's birth and it's death is the same moment.  For us, we can see that photon being emitted, travel to the moon, 1.3 seconds later, it hit and bounce on the mirror left by our Astronauts and return to earth another 1.3 seconds later and absorb by our photo detector.  For that photon, the birth, the bounce, the death (re-absorption) are all the same moment.  No time has passed in-so-far as the photon is concerned.

To go back in time, we need to travel faster than light speed.  For something to go faster than light speed, it will need to have complex mass - that is, it's mass is an imaginary (complex) number.  Imaginary as in the imaginary number square root of -1.  Tachyon is the name given to the imaginary object (field) with imaginary mass.  Can we use it?  I rather doubt that.  To know more, we have to study Tachyon, but to study it, we have to find it or make it.  Thus far, the possibility exists only in the mathematics.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 01:00:39 am by Rick Law »
 


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