| General > General Technical Chat |
| "Training out the stupid" |
| << < (15/21) > >> |
| fourfathom:
--- Quote from: JohnG on December 17, 2020, 12:21:18 am ---If a company has already accumulated so much deadwood that it needs a program to repetitively cut the bottom 10%, it is too late. --- End quote --- You are probably right, but an institutionalized process like this can help at some levels. As you suggest, there are probably other problems that won't be addressed. This is no doubt why I've always thrived in smaller, more agile companies. In fact, I've helped start up a couple and the experience, while often grueling, was also immensely professionally rewarding. |
| Cerebus:
Na, turning that into an institutionalised process is an incredibly bad idea. Doing it will require some metric to do it on. To be fair, the metric would have to be published (and with a bit of Googling it wouldn't be hard to find employment tribunal cases or similar that have ruled against using hidden metrics to evaluate people). The second it was published, people would start gaming it. The kind of people who game metrics rather then get on with their jobs are exactly the kind of people you don't want to retain. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: JohnG on December 17, 2020, 12:21:18 am ---Companies that need to cut an arbitrary percentage per unit time already have a problem in identifying deadwood, so they don't get rid of the right people. If they do it year after year, people develop survival strategies that rarely have to do with actual performance, but rather perceived performance. Typically much of the deadwood in these companies is higher up, and that almost never gets cut. --- End quote --- Whether a company culls in this way or not, being politically savvy always ensures greater progress than being competent. Just look at the people who rise to be senior politicians. |
| fourfathom:
--- Quote from: Cerebus on December 17, 2020, 01:08:10 am ---it wouldn't be hard to find employment tribunal cases or similar that have ruled against using hidden metrics to evaluate people --- End quote --- Perhaps it's different over here in California or Washington State, where we have "at will" employment (at least for non-union jobs). Here, I can be fired at any time, no reason necessary. If I can make the case that I was fired because of my race, sex, religion (and perhaps more protected classes, I'm not sure) I have some protection. Otherwise, no. Since I'm a straight white male I guess I'd better be good at what I do, and not work for idiots. For what it's worth, one of the best things that happened to me was being fired from my first tech job. Of course I was young, and recovery was fairly easy. I wouldn't recommend it to someone with a family and a mortgage. |
| JohnG:
Yes, being somewhat politically savvy is important. But, I'm an engineer at heart, not a manager or politician. So there's that. Most places in US are "right to work" for "exempt" employees, which ironically means you can be fired without cause, and you are exempt from overtime pay :-\. All my employers have had this. However, it is actually very expensive to fire someone without cause, because you are on the hook for unemployment, etc., and costs go up if you make a habit of it. My prior employer handled this by telling them that they were "on the improvement plan", which all knew was code for "we are going to fire you in x months". After a year or two of bottom 10% cuts, you can't avoid having to cut good people. A key selection criteria of savvy managers and HR people was to pick those who they thought wouldn't put up much of a fight, and would quit before they were to be fired, thus saving the company money. I worked with a number of these people. Most got better jobs and ended up happier, but most had to move. Many top employees also left in disgust after witnessing this. It is one thing to get rid of bad employees. This should be done carefully, but once you know they should go, do it quickly without BS. It's better for everybody. Picking 10% (or any arbitrary percentage) is indicative of serious and long-term management failure or the desperation of an MBA in over his or her head. Just MHO, John |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |