Author Topic: Trump's trade war with China  (Read 11134 times)

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Offline saturation

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2018, 01:59:51 pm »
Thanks I've been looking for that list but not with vigor. 

It looks like PRC T&M companies will be in trouble.

If anyone has been on the fence for gear its now or never, most any general purpose T&M instrument even in the MHz like a Rigol 1054z can be used for 'telecommunications' so its open to interpretation.  Voltage control can be as mudane as a wall wart as defined below.  But it much clearer that this involves at least DMM, signal sources and soldering irons/guns.

NESI or NESOI means 'not elsewhere specified or included' ergo a catch all for the category.


90302005 ........... Oscilloscopes and oscillographs, specially designed for telecommunications
90303334 ........... Resistance measuring instruments
90303338 ........... Other instruments and apparatus, nesi, for measuring or checking electrical voltage,current, resistance or power, without a recording device
90303901 ........... Instruments and apparatus, nesi, for measuring or checking electrical voltage, current,resistance or power, with a recording device
90304000 ........... Instruments and apparatus specially designed for telecommunications
90308200 ........... Instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking electrical quantities, nesoi: for measuring or checking semiconductor wafers or devices
90309025 ........... Printed circuit assemblies for instruments and apparatus for measuring or detecting ionizing radiation
90309046 ........... Parts and accessories for instruments and apparatus for measuring or detecting ionizing radiation, nesi
90309066 ........... Printed circuit assemblies for subheadings and apparatus of 9030.40 & 9030.82
90309068 ........... Printed circuit assemblies, NESOI
90309084 ........... Parts and accessories for instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking semiconductor wafers or devices, nesoi
.....

90328920 ........... Automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system
90328940 ........... Automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, not designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system
90328960 ........... Automatic regulating or controlling instruments and apparatus, nesi
90329021 ........... Parts and accessories of automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system, nesi
90329041 ........... Parts and accessories of automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, not designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system, nesi
90329061 ........... Parts and accessories for automatic regulating or controlling instruments and apparatus, nesi
...
85432000 ........... Electrical signal generators

85151100 ........... Electric soldering irons and guns

85285945 ........... Color video monitors nesoi, with video display diagonal not over 34.29 cm, not
incorporating VCR or player


I was reading an article about the new 25% tariffs that Trumps wants to put on 1300+ products/items from China, and luckily there was a link to the document.
Included in the list, apart of industrial equipments, steel/iron/aluminum there is also a lot of electronic testing gear and also components like:

85322100 ........... Tantalum fixed capacitors
85322200 ........... Aluminum electrolytic fixed capacitors
85322300 ........... Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, single layer
85322400 ........... Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, multilayer
85322500 ........... Dielectric fixed capacitors of paper or plastics
85322900 ........... Fixed electrical capacitors, nesi
85323000 ........... Variable or adjustable (pre-set) electrical capacitors
85329000 ........... Parts of electrical capacitors, fixed, variable or adjustable (pre-set)
85331000 ........... Electrical fixed carbon resistors, composition or film types
85332100 ........... Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type carbon resistors, for a power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W
85332900 ........... Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type carbon resistors, for a power handling capacity exceeding 20 W
85333100 ........... Electrical wirewound variable resistors, including rheostats and potentiometers, for a power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W
85334040 ........... Metal oxide resistors
...
85412100 ........... Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a dissipation rating of less than 1 W
85412900 ........... Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a dissipation rating of 1 W or more
85413000 ........... Thyristors, diacs and triacs, other than photosensitive devices
85414020 ........... Light-emitting diodes (LED's)
85414070 ........... Photosensitive transistors
85414080 ........... Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesi, optical coupled isolators
85414095 ........... Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesi, other
85415000 ........... Semiconductor devices other than photosensitive semiconductor devices, nesi
85416000 ........... Mounted piezoelectric crystals

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/files/Press/Releases/301FRN.pdf

« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 02:05:45 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2018, 07:42:52 pm »
I just checked. The vast majority of the amount is BTW which I think is VAT, ...
Vat is 21% here, the taxes I pay for importing from Asia are a lot higher.
Call it what you want, they call it import taxes.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 08:26:13 pm by Galenbo »
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2018, 07:46:14 pm »
You're apparently one of those types that...   :palm:
I suggest you travel the world a bit and ...
I'm not really feeling like ...
That sounds like made up excuses from a narrow minded subsidized second-tier citizen, with a lot of fantasy.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2018, 07:50:58 pm »

Vat is 21% here, the taxes I pay for importing from Asia are a lot higher.
Call it what you want.
Why aren't you giving us practical examples? You keep saying you get excessively taxed, yet some preliminary calculations with the calculator you linked to don't support your statements. The vast majority is VAT which you have to pay anyway. The rest is a very small percentage of the total amount.

You've been asked three times now. Unless you come up with a few practical examples, the conclusion seems to be that your statements are untrue.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2018, 07:52:37 pm »
In theory. In practice - western company do not have chances in Chinese court and result usually is closure of business and obvious unemployment of workers.

Last time we were there, it was closed, but in court they argued a mouse was a cat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Shijingshan_Amusement_Park
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #105 on: April 08, 2018, 08:08:44 pm »
That sounds like made up excuses from a narrow minded subsidized second-tier citizen, with a lot of fantasy.
You can't claim exceptional things without evidence and expect people to accept what you say. You're claiming that starting a business in Belgium is "de-facto [...] forbidden", that "globalists replaced the population in our area" and that "the rankings you saw are made up by the unelected establisment". Each one of those is a bold claim that needs strong evidence. It'd help if you could provide evidence to back these statements up, preferably for all three of them. Do note that they're quite extraordinary statements and that the proof needs to be equally convincing. Obviously, failure to do so will inevitable lead to your claims being dismissed as not credible.

A quick fact check about businesses in Belgium shows that 90000 new businesses have been started in 2016, which apparently is a Belgian record. After deducting the number of companies going out of business there is a net increase of 23934 new companies. This doesn't seem to coincide with your statements about starting a business being de-facto forbidden. The other claims are less quantifiable, at least without more data. I'll leave it up to you to provide any evidence for them.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2018, 08:29:27 pm »
Why aren't you giving us practical examples? You keep saying you get excessively taxed, yet some preliminary calculations with the calculator you linked to don't support your statements. The vast majority is VAT which you have to pay anyway. The rest is a very small percentage of the total amount.

You've been asked three times now. Unless you come up with a few practical examples, the conclusion seems to be that your statements are untrue.

If you refuse to put some numbers in that calculator yourself, so be it, no help is possible.
It is exactly what I pay here in real life, if you refuse to "believe" that, so be it.

Your statement that I said I get excessively taxed is a lie, try to get the context.

Each one of those is a bold claim that needs strong evidence.
It'd help if you could provide evidence to...
... to your claims being dismissed as not credible.
I really don't care how you feel about this, because you refuse to even get what is going on.
Your demands for "proof" are a scam. None of those demands are made with the intention of getting more insight.
It's about defending your conclusion of something that doesn't interest you anyway.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 08:34:33 pm by Galenbo »
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2018, 08:41:53 pm »
If you refuse to put some numbers in that calculator yourself, so be it, no help is possible.
It is exactly what I pay here in real life, if you refuse to "believe" that, so be it.

Your statement that I said I get excessively taxed is a lie, try to get the context.
I did put various numbers in the calculator, yet came up with very modest fees other than the VAT you are already paying. That's why I am asking you for the fourth time to provide a tangible example. You repeat your claim over and over, yet cannot back it up. That leads to the conclusion that it's simply not true. If you disagree, please provide actual real world and representative numbers.

Your original statements are below. Even though you never used the word "excessive", it's exactly what you infer. Where is that "a lot higher" other than the 21% VAT? We're not even talking about your claims about criminal organisations being involved.

EU and/or their Vassal States steals about 26% to 64% from me when I import something significant.
"The Formula"
The same criminal organisation(s) now make propaganda about some USA-trade-war.

Vat is 21% here, the taxes I pay for importing from Asia are a lot higher.
Call it what you want, they call it import taxes.
 

Offline ogden

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2018, 08:59:28 pm »
Very interesting. Please tell how you came-up with such numbers, preferably by example. Also name product(s) which have 26% to 64% EU import duties.

Hint: http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm

[edit] Just checked with purchase dept: electronic components import tax from China = 0%   :-DD

You have a strange kind of reality. Nothing to do with the one I live in.
http://www.invoercalculator.be/

In mine reality VAT is not import tariff. I am pretty sure that VAT in your country is just VAT as well.

Different products from different countries have different tariffs. For example electrolytic capacitors as most electronic components have 0% EU import tariff (from China), so in calculator box "Invoerrechten" you shall enter 0%. Check following URL to see EU import tariff for capacitors from China for yourself:

http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=853222&country=CN
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 09:02:13 pm by ogden »
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2018, 09:01:35 pm »
I did put various numbers in the calculator, yet came up with very modest fees other than the VAT you are already paying. That's why I am asking you for the fourth time to provide a tangible example. You repeat your claim over and over, yet cannot back it up.
Please explain the difficulcies you have with entering some numbers in the field, to see the percentages I gave.
It's really not difficult, try again or explain what's blocking you.

That leads to the conclusion that it's simply not true.
That's generally a false way of thinking.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2018, 09:04:55 pm »
Different products from different countries have different tariffs. For example electrolytic capacitors as most electronic components have 0% EU import tariff (from China), so in calculator box "Invoerrechten" you shall enter 0%. Check following URL to see EU import tariff for capacitors from China for yourself:
Yes ok, but when ordering something, I get taxed on the value, not the kind of content.
I have no possibility to enter "capacitors" or "educational practice board" somewhere.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2018, 09:18:36 pm »
Please explain the difficulcies you have with entering some numbers in the field, to see the percentages I gave.
It's really not difficult, try again or explain what's blocking you.

That's generally a false way of thinking.
I have no trouble entering example or place-holder values in the calculator. They never result in unreasonable fees. You claim "EU and/or their Vassal States steals about 26% to 64% from me", but the numbers don't show this. I am asking you for the fifth time what exact numbers you input into the calculator to get fees ranging from 26% to 64%. Whatever numbers I use, they don't result in these percentages and therefore your statements seem to be untrue. If you disagree, provide numbers to show your assessments are true. At this point it seems that you avoid answering the question because you know full well your initial statement wasn't t

Expecting to see evidence for claims made is not a false way of thinking. You can't realistically expect to make bold claims about being stolen from without providing a shred of evidence and not have people questioning you.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2018, 09:22:15 pm »
Yes ok, but when ordering something, I get taxed on the value, not the kind of content.
I have no possibility to enter "capacitors" or "educational practice board" somewhere.
Does this tax happen to be VAT? Because VAT is calculated over the value of a product. Only specific product types require additional tariffs, but you don't seem to be paying those.

Just paying VAT means you're paying the same as you would pay for local products. The VAT goes to your local government, not the EU. There can be a processing fee, but that's also paid to your local customs office and not the EU.
 

Offline ogden

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #113 on: April 08, 2018, 09:39:28 pm »
Different products from different countries have different tariffs. For example electrolytic capacitors as most electronic components have 0% EU import tariff (from China), so in calculator box "Invoerrechten" you shall enter 0%. Check following URL to see EU import tariff for capacitors from China for yourself:
Yes ok, but when ordering something, I get taxed on the value, not the kind of content.
I have no possibility to enter "capacitors" or "educational practice board" somewhere.

Perhaps all you do is low-cost packages using snail mail, not couriers. Such in most EU countries are processed "on fast track" to not overload customs.

Rest assured - when you for example buy significant amount of industrial steel plates from China, your customs officer will ensure that product is correctly identified and let you pay 35.9% import (anti-dumping) import tariff :)

Anyway what you said that supposedly consumer products and electronic components have 26% to 64% EU import duties is simply not true.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2018, 09:44:00 pm »
Anyway what you said that supposedly consumer products and electronic components have 26% to 64% EU import duties is simply not true.
sorry, depends on your definition of "EU import duties", and the breakdown into their different taxation/costs/administration/... categories,
but the amount of money that EU charges me really is that percentage.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline ogden

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2018, 09:54:40 pm »
Anyway what you said that supposedly consumer products and electronic components have 26% to 64% EU import duties is simply not true.
sorry, depends on your definition of "EU import duties", and the breakdown into their different taxation/costs/administration/... categories,
but the amount of money that EU charges me really is that percentage.

There's nothing wrong with mine definition of import duties. Yours have serious problem. I would also like to see how you get your numbers - by detailed calculation example here.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2018, 10:02:56 pm »
There's nothing wrong with mine definition of import duties.
Depends on how you use that definition.
Remember my initial statement was "EU and/or their Vassal States steals about 26% to 64% from me when I import something significant. "

Pro-EU guys defending it with EU redefinitions : "There are 0% import duties" are simply manipulating and inducing lies.

I would also like to see how you get your numbers - by detailed calculation example here.
What's your result when you enter "China" in the first field, and ¥ 300 in the second ?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:11:17 pm by Galenbo »
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #117 on: April 08, 2018, 10:11:00 pm »
sorry, depends on your definition of "EU import duties", and the breakdown into their different taxation/costs/administration/... categories,
but the amount of money that EU charges me really is that percentage.
You haven't provided any evidence of this. You pay VAT to the Belgian customs and not the EU and little else.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #118 on: April 08, 2018, 10:12:39 pm »
You haven't provided any evidence of this. You pay VAT to the Belgian customs and not the EU and little else.
Your differentiation between vat/non-vat is another effort to bend the initial statement in something else.
Your differentiation between Belgium/EU is irrelevant. EU makes the rules and belgium is a vassal state.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:14:22 pm by Galenbo »
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Online RoGeorge

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #119 on: April 08, 2018, 10:14:08 pm »
This is not funny any more  :-\

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2018, 10:15:18 pm »
This is not funny any more  :-\

You are right, no idea why those guys keep on denying essential fragments of the obvious.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:16:55 pm by Galenbo »
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #121 on: April 08, 2018, 10:16:45 pm »
Depends on how you use that definition.

What's your result when you enter "China" in the first field, and ¥ 300 in the second ?
¥300 is a little over 2 euro. If I'm to believe Google Translate, anything up to 22 euro is exempt from any tax. See the quoted text below.

Of course, if you import something cheap that's just over the treshold, the fixed processing fee will be a relatively large part of the total amount. That still doesn't mean the EU steals this money from you, as it's the Belgian customs office who processes your package and the money.

"Up to € 22, - no import duties and VAT are charged, from € 22, - to € 150, - free of import duties but with VAT. From € 150, - you always have to pay import duties and VAT. In most cases mail delivery services do not charge clearance costs if the order amount of the goods to be imported remains below € 22. Read more about the clearance costs of bpost on this page."
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2018, 10:18:45 pm »

¥300 is a little over 2 euro.
Don't drink and EEV.
That guy is pathetic.



« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:22:17 pm by Galenbo »
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #123 on: April 08, 2018, 10:20:51 pm »
Your differentiation between vat/non-vat is another effort to bend the initial statement in something else.
Your differentiation between Belgium/EU is irrelevant. EU makes the rules and belgium is a vassal state.
You stated that a large percentage of the total amount gets stolen from you by the EU when you import goods into the EU. This is false, as you consistently ignore that you would also pay VAT when you buy things in the local shop.

The differentiation between Belgium and the EU is hugely important. You claimed the EU steals money from you. It doesn't. You pay VAT to the state you live in, like almost any citizen in the world is doing to his state.

It sounds like you simply disagree with the concept of taxation. If that's the case I suggest you move to Somalia to live out the rest of your tax free life. In almost all other parts of the world tax is the price you pay for civilized society.
 

Offline ogden

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Re: Trump's trade war with China
« Reply #124 on: April 08, 2018, 10:23:58 pm »
This is not funny any more  :-\

Right. Discussion shifted way too far into off-topic and just blatant anti-EU propaganda trolling. Waste of internet digital ink :)
 


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